How does everyone here feel about their Kel-Tec pistols?
- Thread starter ScottD
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I doubt that $1000 was far off for my 2 early P-3ATs *IF* you include the price of the pistols, extra mags, holsters, shipping for several trips back to Kel Tec, for each of them and many, many rounds of ammo for break-in of the new and rebuilt pistols and testing fixes and fluff and buffs. :banghead:
Kel Tec bought one of the P-3ATs back and I sold the other after the third rebuild so I recovered some of my investment. (I was very close to sawing them into several pieces and sending them back to Kel Tec that way.)
Alan
Kel Tec bought one of the P-3ATs back and I sold the other after the third rebuild so I recovered some of my investment. (I was very close to sawing them into several pieces and sending them back to Kel Tec that way.)
Alan
Alan, I hear ya about the PPK being a much nicer pistol. I have a PPK/S myself, but... It's quite large and heavy for the 7+1 .380 load it carries on board. the P3AT (while quality/durability/reliability remain suspect) is sooo much easier to pocket carry for the same payload delivery. Of course, that's with the KT +1 mag extension. 
However, that PPK/S does have that nice slide lock that KT can't seem to incorporate, even with the "warmed up" P3AT... Some say it's the "small pocket pistol" design thing, blah, blah, but MANY have slide lockes. After all, the P32 has one.
FWIW, I do like my PPK/s and have CCW carried it many times IWB, but for "just a little more" size, I carry the 15+1 G19 just as easily...so I go with that one IWB... My high-cap Kimber .45 does home defense duty...
-ScottD
However, that PPK/S does have that nice slide lock that KT can't seem to incorporate, even with the "warmed up" P3AT... Some say it's the "small pocket pistol" design thing, blah, blah, but MANY have slide lockes. After all, the P32 has one. FWIW, I do like my PPK/s and have CCW carried it many times IWB, but for "just a little more" size, I carry the 15+1 G19 just as easily...so I go with that one IWB...
My high-cap Kimber .45 does home defense duty... -ScottD
Ranger7, gotchya.... I was focusing your $1000 on the pistols themselves. Ammo, range fees, targets, transit fuel,TIME etc... Yup, it can sure add up to getting a pistol functioning properly. However, as far a accessories for a "suspect" pistol go, I generally don't buy them until it's proven...to MY standards. Not even a holster. Extra mags are not an accessory, but, rather, a necessity for any pistol.
-ScottD
I was focusing your $1000 on the pistols themselves. Ammo, range fees, targets, transit fuel,TIME etc... Yup, it can sure add up to getting a pistol functioning properly. However, as far a accessories for a "suspect" pistol go, I generally don't buy them until it's proven...to MY standards. Not even a holster. Extra mags are not an accessory, but, rather, a necessity for any pistol.-ScottD
When I first saw the Kel-Tecs I thought they were just cheap junk and I would never want one, but when the P-32s came out I just had to have one. I didn't really care if it was reliable or not. It was just the idea of a real firing gun that small and light. More of a novelty really. Well, the little 32 has been 100% reliable with the factory FMJ ammo that I’ve run through it. This little baby, in a Desantis Nemesis holster, seems no heavier in my pocket than my keys.
I kept reading about the P-11, both good and bad, until I decided to buy one, once again just for fun. Like the P-32, the P-11 is also light and fits neatly in my front pocket. The only thing I would probably change is to make it a single stack instead of a double. To my delight the P-11 has also been 100% reliable with the factory FMJ ammo. Since I don’t carry them for defensive purposes I may never try other types of ammo in them. Some people don’t like the heavy DA pull of the P-11 but I prefer it to the lighter and shorter pull of my Kahr E9. I don’t know that I would want to trust them as a CCW to protect my life, but they are neat.
Shoot Safely
Eric
I kept reading about the P-11, both good and bad, until I decided to buy one, once again just for fun. Like the P-32, the P-11 is also light and fits neatly in my front pocket. The only thing I would probably change is to make it a single stack instead of a double. To my delight the P-11 has also been 100% reliable with the factory FMJ ammo. Since I don’t carry them for defensive purposes I may never try other types of ammo in them. Some people don’t like the heavy DA pull of the P-11 but I prefer it to the lighter and shorter pull of my Kahr E9. I don’t know that I would want to trust them as a CCW to protect my life, but they are neat.
Shoot Safely
Eric
There are plenty of field reports and discussion regarding these pistols over at:
www.ktrange.com
www.ktog.org
All of my KTs have served me well, from an early '95 P-11 -- through the P-32, P-40, P-357, first generation P-3AT, .32NAA P-3AT conversion, and finally a second generation P-3AT. The only times I've taken them to the factory was to either have a finish changed, or add factory night sights to the P-40/P-357s.
Great guns for the price and innovative designs.
Scubapro,
How do you like your new 2nd gen P3AT as compared to your 1st gen one? I'm thinking about picking up a second one myself, but am torn between the generations. I have a TON of KT parts for my 1st gen one. Not that I needed them, but because I asked for them and KT sent them for free! Can't beat that...
-ScottD
How do you like your new 2nd gen P3AT as compared to your 1st gen one? I'm thinking about picking up a second one myself, but am torn between the generations. I have a TON of KT parts for my 1st gen one. Not that I needed them, but because I asked for them and KT sent them for free! Can't beat that...
-ScottD
scubapro,
I have to agree, both with the excellent experiences with KTs products, which even includes a Sub 9 in my case, and with the excellent info to be found at teh KT Range and KT Owner's Group web sites.
From simple reviews, to full blown "How to make it even better" tips and tricks, such as Flyer wires and smiley mods...
Great guns and great folks = Great Websites.
I have to agree, both with the excellent experiences with KTs products, which even includes a Sub 9 in my case, and with the excellent info to be found at teh KT Range and KT Owner's Group web sites.
From simple reviews, to full blown "How to make it even better" tips and tricks, such as Flyer wires and smiley mods...
Great guns and great folks = Great Websites.
Functionally, I'd say the my two examples of each P-3AT are about the same. Cosmetically, I like the second generation better -- yes, even with the hex head screw.
9x19 - I forgot about my Sub2K in 9mm, and the SU-16. Both great little shooters, but I did sell the SU-16 in favor of a pre-ban M-4 Bushy. If I was in the market for an SBR, the SU-16D looks tempting...
9x19 - I forgot about my Sub2K in 9mm, and the SU-16. Both great little shooters, but I did sell the SU-16 in favor of a pre-ban M-4 Bushy. If I was in the market for an SBR, the SU-16D looks tempting...
WhoKnowsWho
Member
My P32, purchased used, no problems. Will make it through a 50 round box at the range with no failures. Always with me.
P-3AT carried every day , I guess I am with the majority here as I have not had any reliability problems so far. I admitt to having only about 300 or so rounds through mine so can't speak for longer term survival.
It does look and feel a bit on the cheap side and that concerned me. I needed a small pocket carry handgun however and it's hard to beat the .380 Kel-Tek for size and ease of carry. I did strip it down and broke the edges with a fine stone , as well as doing a feed ramp polish.
It has been reliable so far and shoots well enough at short ranges to take care of business. So far - no complaints
It does look and feel a bit on the cheap side and that concerned me. I needed a small pocket carry handgun however and it's hard to beat the .380 Kel-Tek for size and ease of carry. I did strip it down and broke the edges with a fine stone , as well as doing a feed ramp polish.
It has been reliable so far and shoots well enough at short ranges to take care of business. So far - no complaints
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
Two late production first gen P3ATs here, both bought new as blued guns and sent back for the $20 hardchrome factory upgrade brand new, while that was possible. Break-in and continuing practice fire with them only, not going for any recordbreaking round counts on these and they are carry-lot-shoot-little nostril guns, not plinkers. They are not pleasant to shoot, definitely not an amateur's gun. They offer a reasonably sized payload in the smallest reasonable package at a very reasonable price.
These have proven themselves as reliable as anything else, no problems so far, 100% out of the box with a variety of factory ammo (no Wolf tho). Just cleaning after shooting every time is the regimen, with good light grease as slide lube. Mine lives in its Hedley holster, wife likes the factory soft case to pocket carry in.
I looked at KelTecs with a jaundiced eye for a LONG time, numerous glowing reports on P32s prompted me to get the first P3AT after they'd been around for a while. Shortly after I got one for my wife as an 'always' gun, I bought one too. No regrets, none at all.
Keeping fingers crossed for an easily pocketable 9mm tho...
lpl/nc
These have proven themselves as reliable as anything else, no problems so far, 100% out of the box with a variety of factory ammo (no Wolf tho). Just cleaning after shooting every time is the regimen, with good light grease as slide lube. Mine lives in its Hedley holster, wife likes the factory soft case to pocket carry in.
I looked at KelTecs with a jaundiced eye for a LONG time, numerous glowing reports on P32s prompted me to get the first P3AT after they'd been around for a while. Shortly after I got one for my wife as an 'always' gun, I bought one too. No regrets, none at all.
Keeping fingers crossed for an easily pocketable 9mm tho...
lpl/nc
mainmech48
Member
My P-11 had three partial FTFeed in the first 200 rds. Nada after that in a little over 1.1K rds. of mixed ball and JHPs. The blocky grip and looong trigger pull bothered me a bit at first, but I learned to deal with them with practice. The hard chrome finish on the slide and barrel have held up well to sweat and friction. For a $239 SD piece, what more could one ask?
My P-32 replaced a Beretta 21-A as my pocket/always gun. It's thinner, lighter, and more potent on top of being more reliable. I never could find a single brand of .22 LR that'd run absolutely 100% in the Beretta. The best I could do was about one FTF per 20-25 rds. That figure didn't change significantly in any of three factory magazines.
The P-32 has run flawlessly after the first 100 rds. I practice with ball and carry Gold Dots, all of which feed, fire and extract/eject 100%. It took a good deal of practice for me to get where I could place my hits exactly where I wanted them consistently, but it always went 'bang'.
My P-32 replaced a Beretta 21-A as my pocket/always gun. It's thinner, lighter, and more potent on top of being more reliable. I never could find a single brand of .22 LR that'd run absolutely 100% in the Beretta. The best I could do was about one FTF per 20-25 rds. That figure didn't change significantly in any of three factory magazines.
The P-32 has run flawlessly after the first 100 rds. I practice with ball and carry Gold Dots, all of which feed, fire and extract/eject 100%. It took a good deal of practice for me to get where I could place my hits exactly where I wanted them consistently, but it always went 'bang'.
cliffy109
Member
Maybe I've been lucky, but my P3AT has been flawless. I don't shoot it a lot, but I have about 500 trouble free rounds down the pipe over a period of several months. I didn't have high hopes for this gun and have been pleasantly surprised.
Oh yeah... it does hurt like hell to shoot. I only run 50 rounds through it at a session.
Oh yeah... it does hurt like hell to shoot. I only run 50 rounds through it at a session.
...
As one of the “zillions of KT ownersâ€, I love My P40 conversion, two P11’s, P3AT, and P32.
All of which have preformed flawlessly other than user error.
* P40 (used) ~ it took 250 rounds to “learn†how to shoot it, many FTFs at first. Total 500+.
* 1st P11 (used) ~ 400+ trouble free rounds, in possession of sister with another 240 w/0 malfunctions.
* 2nd P11 (used) ~ 100 trouble free rounds of 9mm… currently using the frame for the P40 conversion see above.
* P3AT (new 1-04) ~ 600+ trouble free rounds.
* P32 (new 7-03) ~ 900+ trouble free rounds.
I personally feel 80% of FTFs and FTEs with these pistols are user related.
Lightweight + caliber = tough to shoot. Just my 0.02
As one of the “zillions of KT ownersâ€, I love My P40 conversion, two P11’s, P3AT, and P32.
All of which have preformed flawlessly other than user error.
* P40 (used) ~ it took 250 rounds to “learn†how to shoot it, many FTFs at first. Total 500+.
* 1st P11 (used) ~ 400+ trouble free rounds, in possession of sister with another 240 w/0 malfunctions.
* 2nd P11 (used) ~ 100 trouble free rounds of 9mm… currently using the frame for the P40 conversion see above.
* P3AT (new 1-04) ~ 600+ trouble free rounds.
* P32 (new 7-03) ~ 900+ trouble free rounds.
I personally feel 80% of FTFs and FTEs with these pistols are user related.
Lightweight + caliber = tough to shoot. Just my 0.02
8830
Member
I love my P32 that I've had for 3yrs. I carry it everywhere, it's really light, goes bang everytime I pull the trigger.
About 25 rounds into breaking in my new P-32, the assembly pin walked out. No damage seems to be done; the gun still fires just fine, it just needs the assembly pin pushed back in after each magazine. Kel-Tec is sending me a replacement, so we'll see how that addresses the problem.
I now consider my P-32 to be about the worst excuse for a firearm that I have ever owned.
Not only did they have the chance to get it right the first time, they also had it back for repairs for about two weeks. I got it back today and took it to the range to try it. It is still doing the exact same thing, failing to extract about once every 10 or so rounds. I could see how an failure to eject could be user induced, but a failure to extract? I highly doubt it.
I highly doubt that they did anything to it at all when it was in for repairs.
It is going back and I am going to give them a call monday. If they can't fix it, I want another one. I didn't pay good money for a gun that won't work and that apparently can't be fixed.
Not only did they have the chance to get it right the first time, they also had it back for repairs for about two weeks. I got it back today and took it to the range to try it. It is still doing the exact same thing, failing to extract about once every 10 or so rounds. I could see how an failure to eject could be user induced, but a failure to extract? I highly doubt it.
I highly doubt that they did anything to it at all when it was in for repairs.
It is going back and I am going to give them a call monday. If they can't fix it, I want another one. I didn't pay good money for a gun that won't work and that apparently can't be fixed.
Deputy25
Member
My P32 has never choked on anything I have fed it. Ball, silvertips, and CorBon hollowpoints. It has had about 600 rounds through it and reliability has been perfect. I usually carry it as a third gun on duty, or a second gun off.
patentmike
Member
I have a P32. On the one hand, there' nothing eaier to carry. I've done all the fluff and buff and trouble-shooting things I could find and it has gone from being very unreliable to almost reliable. I solved failure to feed, pins backing out, and consistent light stikes. I still get a light strike now and then.
I'm going to replace it S&W 431.
I'm going to replace it S&W 431.
Texian Pistolero
member
I've been burned by Kel-Tec, but am keeping an eye on new models.
My beef with the P - 11 is that the assembly pin is held in with a paper clip. I shot some Hot Silver Bear that blew out the pin. (This was after 550 trouble-free rounds.) This created a TOTAL jam in a street defensive piece! Also, this is a traumatic event that may warp rails, so gun is hosed.
Also, the P-11 trigger is way too hard to shoot well. I can do it, but figure concentration would blow under on the street real deal.
(The P-11 is actually extremely accurate! I got cloverleafs at 15 yards after I mastered that pesky trigger.)
If any of the new guns fix those issues, I might try again.
I also have a P -32, which for some reason started to malfunction. i just kinda sighed.
Also, both my guns are blue, and got rusty pretty fast.
My fault, my Glock Tennifer finishes spoil ME!
But I'm not gonna change, so next time it will be stainless.
My beef with the P - 11 is that the assembly pin is held in with a paper clip. I shot some Hot Silver Bear that blew out the pin. (This was after 550 trouble-free rounds.) This created a TOTAL jam in a street defensive piece! Also, this is a traumatic event that may warp rails, so gun is hosed.
Also, the P-11 trigger is way too hard to shoot well. I can do it, but figure concentration would blow under on the street real deal.
(The P-11 is actually extremely accurate! I got cloverleafs at 15 yards after I mastered that pesky trigger.)
If any of the new guns fix those issues, I might try again.
I also have a P -32, which for some reason started to malfunction. i just kinda sighed.
Also, both my guns are blue, and got rusty pretty fast.
My fault, my Glock Tennifer finishes spoil ME!
But I'm not gonna change, so next time it will be stainless.
boldkharma
Member
Just bought a SG P3AT. I read alot about it on this and other forums. Generally people like them. Its definately the only pistol I have handled that can fit in my front pocket so comfortably. I will take it for a test drive this weekend to see how it does.
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=4874063&uid=2463402
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=4874063&uid=2463402
I've had a P32 for about a year and a P40 for about 10 months, both bought used from people who couldn't make them work right. I don't know what their problem with the P32 was, I cleaned and lubed it and it's been 100% with any ammo, including CorBon hollowpoints. I've got about 300 rounds through it, mostly FMJ ,but about 50 hollowpoints. It's in my pocket with a spare mag whenever I have pants on.
The P40 was owned by a guy who was a new shooter, it was his first gun and he hated it. In fact, he told me it was a "bad gun" and didn't want to accept the full price for it. We haggled, him talking me down and me wanting to give him what I won it for at auction. He claimed he fired 100 rounds through it. With a good cleaning and lubing it went through 100 rounds with one FTF and a couple of times it locked back with one round in the mag. It was also bouncing empties off my forehead now and again. I did the F&B and Kel-Tec sent me some new ejectors and some other replacement parts. Siince I did the F&B and replaced the ejector the gun has not had a single failure in the last few hundred rounds of WWB ammo. I've also shot the CorBon Powrball hollow points with no problems.
I think that improper cleaning and lubrication and some limp wristing was the problem with the P32, and I think limp wristing and fear was the problem with the P40. Make no mistake, while the P32 is a pussycat, the P40 is a real tiger, the blast and recoil is just too much for most inexperienced shooters. Even for someone like me who's used to heavy recoil, 50 rounds through the P40 will have the muscles in my hand jumping and shaking.
I've put grip tape on both my Kel-Tecs, the black stuff that's like 80 grit sandpaper and it makes a real difference with cycling on the Kel-Tecs for people who can't, or won't, put a decent grip on their guns. I've known several people who were having problems with Kel-Tecs and other small guns and applying the grip tape made a difference for them as far as reliablility is concerned. It also makes it darn hard to lose your grip.
The P40 was owned by a guy who was a new shooter, it was his first gun and he hated it. In fact, he told me it was a "bad gun" and didn't want to accept the full price for it. We haggled, him talking me down and me wanting to give him what I won it for at auction. He claimed he fired 100 rounds through it. With a good cleaning and lubing it went through 100 rounds with one FTF and a couple of times it locked back with one round in the mag. It was also bouncing empties off my forehead now and again. I did the F&B and Kel-Tec sent me some new ejectors and some other replacement parts. Siince I did the F&B and replaced the ejector the gun has not had a single failure in the last few hundred rounds of WWB ammo. I've also shot the CorBon Powrball hollow points with no problems.
I think that improper cleaning and lubrication and some limp wristing was the problem with the P32, and I think limp wristing and fear was the problem with the P40. Make no mistake, while the P32 is a pussycat, the P40 is a real tiger, the blast and recoil is just too much for most inexperienced shooters. Even for someone like me who's used to heavy recoil, 50 rounds through the P40 will have the muscles in my hand jumping and shaking.
I've put grip tape on both my Kel-Tecs, the black stuff that's like 80 grit sandpaper and it makes a real difference with cycling on the Kel-Tecs for people who can't, or won't, put a decent grip on their guns. I've known several people who were having problems with Kel-Tecs and other small guns and applying the grip tape made a difference for them as far as reliablility is concerned. It also makes it darn hard to lose your grip.
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