How handle "dirty" wheel weights to be used for casting bullets? And need to add Tin?

J

JimGnitecki

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My buddy brought me at least 50 to 75 lb. of wheel weights that had been sitting at his place for 3 DECADES, and which were dirty to begin with. They are pretty dirty now.

1. Do I need to somehow try to clean them BEFORE melting them in a pot (NOT my Lyman Mag 25 furnace!) adding sawdust as a flux agent, and skimming off the ("considerable") dross?

2. Do 30 year old wheel weights contain Tin, or do I need to add some?

Jim G
 
You don't need to clean them but you can. The smell can be pretty noxious if not cleaned but depending on your set up that may not matter. If you do clean them make sure they are 110% dry before proceeding to melt, or melt an entire batch at one time and do not add more as you go.

Generally you don't need to add tin to get good fill out.
 
Get your self a cheap cast iron fry pan put in the weights and melt them down ( I used a turkey fryer) skim off the crud then flux with saw dust (walnut is the best). then cast into ingots
If they are thirty years old you might not have any zinc ones, if you do remove them (they will look different from lead ones). make sure to remove them or they will contaminate the lead.
 
This sounds encouraging. I did use my Lee Hardness Tester to test 7 randomly selected wheelweights with clips that were in at least 3 different lengths. I found that:

- 5 of them were BHN = 14.3

- 1 was BHN = 10

- 1 was so soft that it was "off scale" for Lee tester, so was likely pure, or almost pure, Lead

The 14.3 suggests those 5 wheelweight samples had more than the typical 3% Antimony.

If the wheelweights in total are "typical", that would mean only maybe 0.3% Tin content, and it is reassuring that that might be enough. I can buy Tin from a nearby supplier, but it costs $45 per lb plus shipping, which at Canadian Postal rates means another $20 or so, so good to hear I probably won't need to add more Tin. I also was not looking forward to CUTTING a Tin ingot!

Jim G
 
hk940 said:
. . .
If they are thirty years old you might not have any zinc ones, if you do remove them (they will look different from lead ones). make sure to remove them or they will contaminate the lead.
Click to expand...

HOW will Zinc wheel weights look "different"? Shinier? Or? I want to be sure to contaminate my "good" (Zinc-free) wheelweights with Zinc by accidentally melting them together.

Jim G
 
Using wheel weights 30-40 Years ago (when they were new), I was using cast straight wheel weight bullets for .38, .44 and .45acp bullets.
As long as I kept them below 1000fps, I never had any leading with them as long as they were properly sized and lubed.
 
You have a good buddy!

1. You don't need to wash them but you can if you want to. Any dirt or trash will be lighter than the melted lead and will float to the top.

2. Wheelweights do contain tin. It should be enough to get good fill out. I would cast a few bullets and see before adding anything. Sawdust is good flux. It seems like Pine works best. Maybe the Rosin in it? I usually flux 2 or 3 times with sawdust and then 1 more time with wax. Old candles, gulf wax, crayons, ect.

Zinc weights will have a different appearance. Usually they will appear more shiny or more gray looking. And most of them will have either the word Zinc or a "Z" on them.

A goog habit to get into is to never add material to melted lead. It does not have to be cold, just not liquid. If moisture gets under the surface you can have a steam explosion and get to meet "The Tinsel Fairy"! I've melted wet weights before with no problem. I filled the pot before lighting the burner and the moisture cooked off before the weights melted. I've even melted sink or shower traps that had moisture in them.

A couple of comments: The weight that was soft may be a stick-on weight. All lead stick-on weights except for one type are soft and close to pure lead. Having a dedicated "smelting"pot and keeping raw scrap out of your casting pot is a good idea. Another good idea is looking on the Cast Boolits site and reading the stickies about wheelweights.

Your post is kind of timely! I just came in from the garage after sorting a bucket of weights that "mysteriously" showed up in my drive way! Did I mention "good buddy"?

Feel free to ask more questions. I enjoy scrounging for lead, sorting lead, melting lead, talking about lead, you get the picture!
 
JimGnitecki said:
HOW will Zinc wheel weights look "different"? Shinier? Or? I want to be sure to contaminate my "good" (Zinc-free) wheelweights with Zinc by accidentally melting them together.

Jim G
Click to expand...


The biggest give-aways on if a clip on wheel weight is zinc will be:
1- Usually there's a "ZN" embossed on it somewhere (but not always, see #3 if you're not sure).
2- If you drop it on concrete it makes a "tink" sound as opposed to lead that will go "thud".
3- If you're testing with a pair of wire cutters or similar implement, with lead wheel weights you can pretty easily start cutting into the weight. With zinc and steel you can't get any purchase on the weight with cutters because it's too hard.
 
Most WWs will have some sort of identifying mark to denote zinc, steel or lead. You can drag a lead WW across a concrete block and it will deform with a moderate amount of pressure zinc or steel won’t deform easily.
 
I wouldn’t worry about tin content. Tin helps with bullet fill out. This generally isn’t a problem with WWs unless you are doing something else wrong.
 
I have not melted down any wheel weights in several years but made melting pot from a piece of pipe and steel plate for the bottom. I only did small amounts at a time and formed a pouring spout on t. not wanting a handle to accidently bump and spill molten lead I use a large pair of channel lock pliers for a handle. I use a cast iron cornbread mold that was a freebie from my wife to make ingots and found how much to fill them to be close to 1# in weight. They stack up fairly well with a back board to hold them.

I have no source for wheel weights any more and the salvage yard is always out so I have gone to buying scrape pure lead from them and use #4 babbit to harden it up some and it has worked well. I used to have a source of free scrape babbit and I have good stock on hand. The combo makes nice looking bullets and I only use them for paper and steel.
 
Last edited:
nofendertom said:
Using wheel weights 30-40 Years ago (when they were new), I was using cast straight wheel weight bullets for .38, .44 and .45acp bullets.
As long as I kept them below 1000fps, I never had any leading with them as long as they were properly sized and lubed.
Click to expand...
For most shooting, I agree the straight wheel weight Lead would be fine at their BHN = 14. But, I want my bullets to be more like BHN 11 or 12 for optimized obturation and accuracy in the low pressure loads in the Pedersoli Sharps replica. So, after I confirm the actual BHN after meltng and combining ALL the wheel weights, I'll add pure Lead in a percentage that gets me into that BHN 11 or 12 range.

Jim G
 
lightman said:
You have a good buddy!

1. You don't need to wash them but you can if you want to. Any dirt or trash will be lighter than the melted lead and will float to the top.

2. Wheelweights do contain tin. It should be enough to get good fill out. I would cast a few bullets and see before adding anything. Sawdust is good flux. It seems like Pine works best. Maybe the Rosin in it? I usually flux 2 or 3 times with sawdust and then 1 more time with wax. Old candles, gulf wax, crayons, ect.

Zinc weights will have a different appearance. Usually they will appear more shiny or more gray looking. And most of them will have either the word Zinc or a "Z" on them.

A goog habit to get into is to never add material to melted lead. It does not have to be cold, just not liquid. If moisture gets under the surface you can have a steam explosion and get to meet "The Tinsel Fairy"! I've melted wet weights before with no problem. I filled the pot before lighting the burner and the moisture cooked off before the weights melted. I've even melted sink or shower traps that had moisture in them.

A couple of comments: The weight that was soft may be a stick-on weight. All lead stick-on weights except for one type are soft and close to pure lead. Having a dedicated "smelting"pot and keeping raw scrap out of your casting pot is a good idea. Another good idea is looking on the Cast Boolits site and reading the stickies about wheelweights.

Your post is kind of timely! I just came in from the garage after sorting a bucket of weights that "mysteriously" showed up in my drive way! Did I mention "good buddy"?

Feel free to ask more questions. I enjoy scrounging for lead, sorting lead, melting lead, talking about lead, you get the picture!
Click to expand...

Thank-you, lightman! I will look closely at any of the wheel weights that look "different" in color from the others, and isolate them even if I don't see a "Z" on them, just to be cautious. And I appreciate the reminder about theTinsel Fairy. My operating philosophy includes the rule "All material added to the mix must be in the pot BEFORE it gets heated".

While I can appreciate a good party, the Tinsel Fairy is NOT invited! :)

Jim G
 
Bearded Phil said:
The biggest give-aways on if a clip on wheel weight is zinc will be:
1- Usually there's a "ZN" embossed on it somewhere (but not always, see #3 if you're not sure).
2- If you drop it on concrete it makes a "tink" sound as opposed to lead that will go "thud".
3- If you're testing with a pair of wire cutters or similar implement, with lead wheel weights you can pretty easily start cutting into the weight. With zinc and steel you can't get any purchase on the weight with cutters because it's too hard.
Click to expand...
Thank-you, Bearded Phil! those 3 tests sound pretty reliable!

Jim G
 
I had access to wheel weights from my job that kept me in alloy for many years (heavy equipment mechanic) When I cleaned the used, greasy weights I just tossed a bunch in a pot and melted them. The grease burned off acting like a "flux" and helped clean the lead. I skimmed often and stirred with a wooden stick. Eventually stirring and skimming resulted in clean casting alloy. For many years I used wheel weight alloy as is, no tin, no linotype, nothing. My 44 Magnums ate that stuff up (many, many Lyman 429421s).
 
mdi said:
I had access to wheel weights from my job that kept me in alloy for many years (heavy equipment mechanic) When I cleaned the used, greasy weights I just tossed a bunch in a pot and melted them. The grease burned off acting like a "flux" and helped clean the lead. I skimmed often and stirred with a wooden stick. Eventually stirring and skimming resulted in clean casting alloy. For many years I used wheel weight alloy as is, no tin, no linotype, nothing. My 44 Magnums ate that stuff up (many, many Lyman 429421s).
Click to expand...
Very encouraging!

Jim G
 
JimGnitecki said:
Thank-you, Bearded Phil! those 3 tests sound pretty reliable!

Jim G
Click to expand...
If you have a lead thermometer, you can also keep the temp below the melting point of zinc (787*F if the internet didn't lie to me). I've seen people talk about keeping "smelting" temps 750*F or below. Anyway, it's another possible failsafe for you to evaluate to see if it has value for you.
 
stormshrike said:
If you have a lead thermometer, you can also keep the temp below the melting point of zinc (787*F if the internet didn't lie to me). I've seen people talk about keeping "smelting" temps 750*F or below. Anyway, it's another possible failsafe for you to evaluate to see if it has value for you.
Click to expand...
Thank-you. I do have a Lyman digital Lead thermometer, and will make sure I monitor the Lead temperature as I melt it. My Lyman Mag 25 furnace would have been betetr from a temperature control perspective because of its PID control, but I don't want to get any crap into the furnace so will be using a separate s.s. pot.

I think temperatures in the 600Fs should be adequate for the cleaning / smelting. I think I read in one of my info sources to keep a melt furnace temperature down below the melt point of Zinc for this very reason. Presumably, the still solid Zinc, being lighter than Lead (7.13 g/cc) will float in the heavier Lead (11.3 g/cc) and can be skimmed off with the dross.

Jim G
 
Get a piece of all thread. Find a known zinc wheel weight and lead ww. Run 'em both across the all thread. You'll hear and see the difference immediately.
 
I never cleaned any wheel weights. Any dirt will rise to the top and any grease will burn off.
I would rather have the wind blow away the smoke than have a chance of water getting into the melting pot. If water gets into the pot, it will instantly turn to steam and explode out of the pot, splattering molten lead all over.

Be sure to wear protective gear. I wear safety glasses, hat, gloves, long sleeved shirt, long pants and closed toe shoes to protect from any splatter. A drop of lead will burn/melt right through nylon or polyester based clothing. Cotton based clothes work well. Leather gloves work well. The point is to protect your eyes, hair, hands and skin from splatter droplets. I usually cast in the fall or spring when it's cooler outside.
 
Yep, the old "Tensile Fairy". Pouring water directly on top of melted lead is OK, but any water that gets below the surface immediately turns to steam and expands about 1,700 to one. Instant "explosion" from huge steam bubble. As a teen I cast sinkers on Ma's stove and often poured water on top of the melted lead to hurry up the clean up before Ma got home. Just a sizzle and steam no explosions...
 
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