How important is 25 yard accuracy with your edc?

[camsdaddy]

Recently I've shot more than I should at 25 yards. I say this because at some point it's no longer practice and simply chunking ammo. I sometimes get frustrated because I'm not make regular hits on the 6" plate. I shoot everything I have from 3-25+ yards. I did find that when I move to 7-10 yards my plate shooting is much improved. I wonder how important accuracy is at 25 yards. Should I worry that I don't hit the plate every time my glock 26 at 25 yards if I hit fast and regular from 3-10? I find that the 26 shows my fatigue quicker than larger guns. I think I am going to begin shooting less rounds while I only shoot 3 rounds per mag to pace myself I still waste a lot of ammo.

 

[Old Fuff]

In a day long gone, FBI agents were trained, and regularly requalified at distances running from 7 to 50 yards, although it was very seldom that incidents would come about that involved any shooting at the longer ranges.

While there is substantial evidence that most shooting occur at bad-breath lengths, they're is always is an unpredictable exception. One I can think of was when an off-duty officer, armed only with his back-up, kept a mall shooter pined down at approximately 80 yards until other first responders arrived.

Your question is one each individual has to decide for themselves, but there isn't such a thing as having too much or too many skills.

 

[MCgunner]

For self defense, 25 yards probably isn't that important, but I do shoot at 25, too. 25 yards off a bench rest/sand bags is a standard of accuracy. If you tell me you can keep 'em in 6" from 10 yards off hand, that tells me nothing about the handgun since you and your marksmanship are a factor. Bench the gun at 25 and it's apples vs apples to me.

My standard for my EDCs is 4" at 25 yards from the bench. All my regular carries, even my NAA Black Widow, will shoot under that. The NAA and my Kel Tec P11 shoot 3.5", my Taurus 85UL will hold 3", my 3" Taurus 66 and my Ruger KP90DC will shoot 1.5". i occasionally carry a Radom P64 that will shoot 3-3.5". With any of those, I can consistently take down 6" metal plates from 25 yards usually 6 hits out of 8 average. The more accurate guns I can run 6 of 6 frequently. When I get tired, I start missing, so I move up close and start shooting B27 targets for self defense practice. I must admit, plinking is more fun than shooting paper.

 

[Hunterdad]

I've always used minute-of-grapefruit at 7yards for all my carry guns

 

[camsdaddy]

I have never shot from a bench. I'm fairly certain all would bench well from 25. I can hit plates the size of a grapefruit with regularity

 

[MrBorland]

Marksmanship matters.

I practice with a full-sized gun at 25 (and 50) yards quite a bit, and know what I'm able to do. With an EDC gun, I'd expect group size to increase in proportion to the reduced sight radius. OIW, I wouldn't feel I was "inaccurate" solely because my groups opened a bit.

If you're able to consistently and solidly hit that 6" plate at 25 yards with a full-sized gun, you're doing better than most.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I rarely target shoot and rarely shoot handguns at distances longer than 21 - 30 feet. The times I have done it I am still really good at it...maybe 2X a year.

But I don't practice distance paper punching or even shooting at steel plates are whatever very much at all. All of my training with my EDC is move-draw-shoot on the move at 21' unless I'm at the indoor range in which case it is started with sighted fire at 21' - 30' for 50 rounds and then progresses to 100+ rounds shot in triple taps from a point.

I try to shoot my EDC's as I would fight with them and try very hard not to get into "target shooting mode" any more than I have to. I'm not against doing that if someone wants to do that. I find my time better spent cross training on a variety of guns that I carry with all of them being shot they way I'd likely fight with them.

VooDoo

 

[tuj]

For self-defense, if you shoot someone who is 25 yards away from you, it will be very hard to prove you were in immediate danger. I believe the police rule is 7 yards of distance (Tueller drill?) between you and a potential threat. I think going much over 10 and you are going to be hard-pressed to prove the threat was imminent.

For target shooting however, which has been shown to increase the effectiveness of combat shooting, 25 and 50 yards are common distances (ie. bullseye). For purposes of general marksmanship, I would say to strive towards being able to consistently hit your plate at 25 yards. After all, if you can successfully engage a target far away, you will have much better chances under stress engaging a target that is close.

Also, test your gun from sandbags or a rest at 25 yards. You may be surprised at how inaccurate the gun and/or your ammo really is. With my defensive pistols, they will only group about 6" or 7" for ten shots from sandbags with standard ammo. With match ammo, they will do substantially better.

 

[hardluk1]

My CC practice is between 5 and 12 yards with lots of that point shooting. 2 handed one handed strong and weak side.

 

[BCRider]

I find that shooting accurately at 20 to 25 yards is fun in it's own right. But other than perhaps using the same gun it's got precious little to connect it to using that gun in a defensive situation or practicing for such a situation. Even it's application to shooting that gun in speed sensitive matches would be a stretch. Although at times you might need to reach out and be aiming at that 8 inch round spot. So it's nice to know you can slow down for a second to shoot well enough to make the hit or at least not drop TOO many points.


On the other hand even for me with my old guy eyes and shaky old guy nerves if I could not hit at least 3 out of 5 times on a 6 inch gong at 25 I'd be looking for why the gun is performing so badly. Even with my age and fast life style handicaps I can manage to do at least that well with my guns other than a couple of oddballs that I keep because I like orphans....

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

You should do at least some shooting at those longer distances. If you shoot well at the longer range, it stands to reason you'd be much more accurate at closer ones. And just because 25-yard shots aren't common doesn't mean they will never happen.

 

[JERRY]

with the exception of "micro" guns, you should be able to consistently hit a man size silhouette at 25 yards slow fire. it is good to know your skill level, your gun's ability, and because you never know....

yes, most lethal encounters happen at less that 21 feet, even less than 15 feet, but you should strive for at least basic marksmanship competency at 25 yards with the gun you bet your life on.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The importance of shooting at 25 yards and longer is that it exposes the flaws in your shooting technique that are often ignored at closer distances.

There is a lot of rationalization to avoid acknowledging weaknesses in your shooing technique, but you're the only one who suffers because of it

 

[BullRunBear]

With the EDC, I strive for three inch or better groups rapid fire at 7 to 10 yards. But I use slow fire at 25 yards to focus on the sights and trigger control. I found the better I did at 25 yards the better I did at combat distances.

Also, it's nice to know I can hit at longer ranges because between my size and old injuries I couldn't outrun a ground sloth.

Jeff

 

[Deltaboy1984]

I gathered a crowd at an open air range when I put 5 Hornady Critical Defense 38 special rounds from my 1968 Charter Undercover in the X and 9 ring on a B27 target at 25 yards.

The only 50 yard shooting I do with is my Sigma 40 'VE. It still in the x,9 and 8 rings . Now with my Colt Trooper III I could keep them in the X but it had a custom trigger job that gave me glass smooth 5 pound double action. 25 yards is plenty far for me.

 

[ohbythebay]

My practice...

I tend to be target specific at 10 to 15 yard...trying to stay within a 6 inch circle (or less)

At 25 yards, I use a man shaped silhouette and go for center mass. Every shot scores a solid center mass hit...even if the span is a 12 - 14 inch diameter area. why ?

I figure if I am in a life threatening situation. it will be much closer or at 25 yards, I can get the heck out of dodge (best to avoid than confront, right?)

But if I am ever in a situation where someone is that far, attempting to shoot me and I cannot get to cover, I am going to unload, center mass...and hope I shoot much better than they do.

I would still prefer a nice brick wall to hide behind though...I am not scared...I am smart

Anyway, practicing the 25 center mass unload is fun

 

[jon_in_wv]

If it helps you build confidence and proficiency with you weapon its very important. Distance is much less forgiving of poor shooting technique than shooting up close. I hear a lot of guys talk about how great shooters they are but they can't hit a thing past a few yards. I do most of my shooting with my EDC within 10 yards or so but I have shot my pistol out to 200 yards at a steel plate. I have 100% confidence in my pistol's ability to do its part. I am, by far, the weak link. But the more I shoot it and push my ability to use it the more confident I am in my pistol and I as a pair. If you can throw lead at a target 10 feet away and hit it every time how are you growing at that point?

 

[huntershooter]

The importance of shooting at 25 yards and longer is that it exposes the flaws in your shooting technique that are often ignored at closer distances.

There is a lot of rationalization to avoid acknowledging weaknesses in your shooing technique, but you're the only one who suffers because of it

Amen to this.
One should practice what they are weak at, not what they do well.

 

[DT Guy]

For self-defense, if you shoot someone who is 25 yards away from you, it will be very hard to prove you were in immediate danger. I believe the police rule is 7 yards of distance (Tueller drill?) between you and a potential threat. I think going much over 10 and you are going to be hard-pressed to prove the threat was imminent.

Just because YOU have a handgun doesn't mean your attacker will; there are any number of situations where you, or someone you want to protect, could be threatened by someone you are more than 25 yards from.

While most SD shootings range from short to very short range, they aren't ALL at spitting distance; since modern handguns, even small ones, are accurate enough to hit effectively out to, and past, 25 yards, why limit your own ability by not practicing for those shots?


Larry

 

[9mmepiphany]

There is also a balance between distance and how fast you are shooting. When shooting slowly, I'd expect a much tighter group

I was out trying a couple of new loads, 125gr and 147gr, a friend had worked up for my M&P9 last week. I wanted to see what their difference in POI would be at 25 yards (pretty much max range in IDPA matches) standing and shooting slowly, about 1 shot per second, I was getting a spread between the 3 shot groups of a couple of inches...the 147gr being higher. Now I was worried about the spread at 50 yards.

Shooting off a shooting bag rested on a cable spool, shooting about the same pace, the groups, 3-4", overlapped at 50 yards.

Shooting at a moderate speed of 3-4 shots a second, I'd expect all shots to land on a 3 x 5" card out to 15 yards

 

[sgt127]

I practice at every range I can, including 100 yards standing. I can usually get 8-9 hits out of 10 on a Milpark target with any decent sized service handgun. If you can hit at 100, the close up stuff is easy. And, honestly, it's not that hard. A few rounds to figure out bullet drop and, they go in if you do your part.

The Trolley Square mall incident (Utah) really made me think about what kind of range I might need to get a hit in with a handgun.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_Square_shooting

If you plan to use your weapon to defend you and yours and escape a deadly force encounter, you should be able to score good hits at 7 yards on demand.

If you plan on going on the offensive against a mall shooter, active shooter, practice at long range. I know I will. I try and practice for worst case scenario that I may find myself in. That does not apply to everyone, I realize that.

 

[1911 guy]

My own opinion is that 25 yard accuracy is important with your EDC. While use at 25 yards is not likely in nearly any imaginable SD scenario, shooting at 25 yards will reveal flaws in your grip, trigger management an sight alignment that closer ranges conceal.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Not all practice, even with your carry gun has to be what's considered SD practice. Sometimes you have to work on your "gun skills" too.

I carry a S&W J frame and with such a short barrel and long DA trigger practicing shooting well is important. I always shoot that J frame 25 yards when I go to the range and not because I feel I will need to protect myself at 25 yards but because if I can make good tight group hits from 25 yards I can shoot even better from 7-10 yards. If I can master the trigger control to shoot a J frame off-hand from those distances I will be a better shot close up. I incorporate that practice in with my "normal" SD practice.

I also love to prove all those who say a J frame is only a belly gun wrong. It's only a belly gun if you refuse to put in the time to shoot a J frame well. Just because it's not as easy as a semi-auto doesn't make it impossible.

I'm not a Bullseye shooter but I can hit minute of kill zone with a J frame @25 yards with the best of them... (and sometimes even 50 yards just for bragging rights!)

Shooting the 1911 @100 yards is another story for another thread.

 

[9mmepiphany]

When I started in LE, back in 1979, we were issued .38spl revolvers.

Qualifications, quarterly, included 18 rounds from 50 yards (6 prone, 6 kneeling, 6 right hand barricade)

 

[mavracer]

While most SD shootings range from short to very short range, they aren't ALL at spitting distance; since modern handguns, even small ones, are accurate enough to hit effectively out to, and past, 25 yards, why limit your own ability by not practicing for those shots?

This and nobody knows how long of shot you're going to need to take.