How Many Carry a 1911 with FMJ Ammo?

[LCPor9mm]

Rehash

David:
I said this
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCPor9mm
I mean if the hollow point is designed to "catch" material to expand, why would it matter what that material was?
I was confused.
Then you said this:

Because it does. Not all material acts the same. Would you expect water and drywall to have the same effect on the hollowpoint? If you do, then you might want to test your theory first.
Hornady's Critical Defense and Critical Duty ammo addresses the issue pretty well. The bullets use a polymer plug that prevents the hollow point from closing in on itself and acts upon the bullet in a fairly consistent manner regardless of what material it encounters. Standard hollowpoints typically do not.

Closing in on itself is a poor choice of words and incorrectly discribes the action that takes place.
I researched the internet and found my answer, which is: The plug is used to prevent clogging or filling up, NOT to prevent the bullet from CLOSING IN ON ITSELF as you had indicated. This is the correct answer I am not confused.

 

[Prosser]

A non-expanding HP, as a general rule, has a better shape for straight line penetration then a RNFMJ. It's essentially a Truncated cone, or flat point, and, it will likely penetrate straighter then RN. You don't loose, except your wallet is considerably lighter, offering less protection, and less practice.

 

[mavracer]

I researched the internet and found my answer, which is: The plug is used to prevent clogging or filling up, NOT to prevent the bullet from CLOSING IN ON ITSELF as you had indicated. This is the correct answer I am not confused.

You still seam to be. Bullets are designed to expand cconsistaantly after going through a wide variety of different material. FBI protocal requires them to be shot through glass and sheet metal as well as sheet rock and clothing(both heavy and light cloth) the plug helps with both hard and soft mediums. It helps keep the tip from closing while going thru glass and sheet metal as well as keeping it from getting clogged by clothing and/or sheet rock. It's an attemp to make the bullet work better over a wide set of vairiables. Bullet companys know what the tests are and for the most paart succeed in improving how consistant bullets work.

 

[LCPor9mm]

OK

That's an interesting side note MAV, but irrelevant to my post. I don't care about water, glass, sheetrock or metal. Neither am I interested in FBI protocol. I was unclear how clothing could clog up a hollow point. I have found my answer and you and your buddy David have been, and continue to be of no use to me.

 

[David E]

.

Closing in on itself is a poor choice of words and incorrectly discribes the action that takes place.
I researched the internet and found my answer, which is: The plug is used to prevent clogging or filling up, NOT to prevent the bullet from CLOSING IN ON ITSELF as you had indicated. This is the correct answer I am not confused.

(sigh) Looks like you stopped researching too soon.

It does both, depending what the bullet hits.

If it hits clothing, there is little chance of the HP closing in on itself. That's where the "cookie cutter" effect is neutralized by the poly plug.

But if the bullet hits drywall, plywood glass or steel, the chances of the HP closing in on itself increase. The poly plug minimizes this possibility.

The Hornady engineer stated this, but compared to your vast minutes of online research, what does he know?

 

[Trent]

Trent:
Sometimes it's not about you, and, you have no control over the situation.

For instance...(snip)

Oh I completely understand, Prosser. In Illinois I have to be mindful of where and how I travel to avoid anything excessively high risk, as we aren't allowed to carry anything, period. So if I get jumped by 3 or 4 (or more) guys somewhere, I've managed to put myself in a place where I shouldn't have been.

If I were allowed to carry, and I'm able to successfully defend myself against the first 2 or 3 attackers that are coming at me, any MORE than that will likely make tracks, fast, in the other direction.

You are correct in that I *HAVE* had to give up my freedom to go wherever I want, any time I want (I won't carry illegally). ***

When I had my gun shop, I carried a Glock 19 and kept a 12 gauge under the counter. My grandfather (who was retired, and worked there off and on) always kept a S&W M&P 45 loaded, and Charles carried an XD45.

I wouldn't carry a 1911 in a gun shop - the risk of getting hit by multiple people was too high, and 7 or 8+1, just ain't enough.

*** This is the reason we have annual IGOLD rallies in Springfield, IL, BTW.

 

[1911Tuner]

I researched the internet and found my answer, which is: The plug is used to prevent clogging or filling up, NOT to prevent the bullet from CLOSING IN ON ITSELF...

It does both. Although it's primarily designed to prevent clogging and initiate expansion by being driven into the bullet's core...it also initiates that expansion no matter what it hits. A conventional hollowpoint will collapse inward when it hits the hard stuff. Drywall probably isn't hard enough to collaspse it, but a solid wood door is, and it also clogs the cavity with wood chips.

Conventional hollowpoints need hydraulic pressure to initiate expansion. If it gets plugged with dry material, expansion probably ain't gonna happen.

 

[LCPor9mm]

Agreed

If it hits clothing, there is little chance of the HP closing in on itself.

Thank you David, I agree. A poor choice of words.

Conventional hollowpoints need hydraulic pressure to initiate expansion. If it gets plugged with dry material, expansion probably ain't gonna happen.

Well put. I only wish David had made that statement so clear and precicse.

 

[DLEJones]

230 gr Federal Hydra-Shok in the full size Springfield 1911-A1 (if good enough for the FBI they're good enough for me)
and
165 gr Federal Hydra-Shok in the compact Springfield Micro...

 

[David E]

Thank you David, I agree. A poor choice of words.


Well put. I only wish David had made that statement so clear and precicse.

Dang. I thought that was so intrinsic that everyone understood that. You even said you understood that drywall and water affected hollowpoints differently....my bad.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

OK, how many of you use ammo that has this plug in the hollowpoint? If an HP is better than FMJ, is the "tipped" or "filled" HP better than an open HP?

 

[David E]

Perhaps you should read all the previous posts in this thread that discuss that very thing.

 

[EvilGenius]

OK, how many of you use ammo that has this plug in the hollowpoint? If an HP is better than FMJ, is the "tipped" or "filled" HP better than an open HP?

Yes...

Apparently....

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

David E: "Perhaps you should read all the previous posts in this thread that discuss that very thing."
Me: David, perhaps you should read the part where I ask, specifically, who carries these HP's with the filled tip, and asked THEM to comment. Obviously, those few feel differently than the masses that use the regular HP's. Are we ALL going to dump the conventional HP's for the new plastic tipped ones, because they APPARENTLY are a little better? Where does it stop?

 

[David E]

Me: I ask, specifically, who carries these HP's with the filled tip, and asked THEM to comment.

I do and i did.

Your second question has already been addressed and discussed rather extensively in this thread.

Are we ALL going to dump the conventional HP's for the new plastic tipped ones, because they APPARENTLY are a little better?

No, because most people don't care. They feel "comfortable" with .22's, are confident they can place their shots with surgical precision while taking incoming fire, in the dark, while moving etc, etc, etc.

Me, I'm not as good as everyone else here, so I'll take any practical advantage I can.

YMMV, IMHO, GMTA, LTNS, AFK, WYWTD, FMJISAOK, IDCWYD, etc.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

We have had a lot of comment, but my question still remains for the few, very few people, that have (in use or carry) and/or have used the new poly-tipped stuff. Do we have any real life shootings, or is it all marketing and conjecture. Even hunting with the darn stuff ought to tell us something. Any hunters out there? David E, do you have any results of performance you can share? Howm many others are using the stuff?

 

[DLEJones]

This may not apply but I have used them hunting.

The only plastic filled hollow points I used were in hunting. They are the V-Max bullet and will sometimes turn a groundhog inside out. If you hit them anywhere they die. Once and a while, there is no exit hole and they feel mushy, as in total energy transfer.

I have never shot them with solids or non-plastic tipped hollow points so I don't know if what I saw was typical. They were 40 grain .22's - loaded in a 22-250 case moving 4150fps. 1" low at 100 and 300 and zero at 200. I shot one walking at 329 yards in the jaw and he expired without finishing his step.

 

[NMGonzo]

Big holes original recipee.

 

[1911Tuner]

Nosler Ballistic Tips are serious Whitetail medicine.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I think we are better off comparing pistol rounds here. The performance of any Mach III rifle ammo is going to be abit different.............

 

[NG VI]

OK, how many of you use ammo that has this plug in the hollowpoint? If an HP is better than FMJ, is the "tipped" or "filled" HP better than an open HP?

No, because the tipped bullets in question don't expand as much as several other bullets that are as consistent as you could hope for, and they were designed to not reach the FBI-recommended 12 inches of penetration, while the other bullets were.

They may be very consistent, but their overall performance is still pretty short of the HST and 4th gen Ranger-T bullets, and not really any better than the Gold Dot/PDX type bullets.

I'd say they offer some nice qualities compared to the older XTP and Golden Saber, and generic hollowpoints, but compared to the other premium loads, not so much, and they still have drawbacks compared to the other bullet their company offers.

 

[kyletx1911]

Mine eat both fmj"s run great but i carry ball in mine most of the time

 

[neilin]

.45 FMJ always. I have talked to a number of veterans who used them in wartime. There is no question about the stopping power of FMJs. I no longer waste my money on the expensive hollow points that younger shooters seem to be impressed with. Also, feeding may be questionable with some hollow points.

 

[Bovice]

I no longer waste my money on the expensive hollow points that younger shooters seem to be impressed with.

We also shoot modern guns that feed this expensive modern ammunition just fine.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I'm glad I asked the question. This has been very interesting. I don't think either "side" has been swayed, though. Both sides have strong opinions, and strong wills.