How many is too many for cc?

[MachIVshooter]

You're not too far off there. Most new cars have:

1. An energy-absorbing collapse zone.
2. Front airbags
3. Side airbags
4. Seat belts
5. Automatic engine cutoff which activates when the airbags fire
6. Automatic seat belt release, which activates when the airbags deflate
7. Automatic door unlock, which activates when the seat belts unlock.
8. Satellite phone system which alerts a central office when the airbags deploy.

And no one calls that overkill.

Blue is equipment that you'll find on some cars.

Red is features that could appear in certain models, but are no where near standard, and that I've not seen or heard of in 18 years of professional wrenching.

Engines may or may not shut down in an airbag deploying collision. Ford used to employ an inertia switch in the fuel pump circuit that was meant to cut power in a collision, and I believe BMW uses a battery power interrupt, but it is usually the impact itself which disrupts sensor inputs or causes physical damage that causes stall.

Seat belt buckles still engage mechanical locks that must be manually released in every vehicle I've ever had through the shop; the electronically primed pretensioner tightens the belt when airbags deploy, but does not release the buckle. It would be quite dangerous, in fact, to have a system that releases the buckle after SRS deployment and subsequent deflation (ET counted in milliseconds), as the accident may not be over. Would you want your seatbelt to release after the bags deploy because you crashed through a barrier and are now rolling down a mountainside?

Many vehicles engage locks when you put the vehicle in gear or reach a certain speed, some vehicles automatically unlock doors when you put them in park, but in no vehicle that I'm familiar with does unbuckling a seatbelt cause doors to unlock.

I'm all ears if you know of any models that perform those two functions.

 

[medic15al]

I was a paramedic in and around B'ham 15 years and still live within 30 mins of it and go there often for doctors and other needed things. B'ham IS that dangerous. I am always carrying there.........

But you need to grow up and use some critical thinking. This is excessive and a jury will not like what they will hear about some nut carrying 4 concealed pistols that just shot a scuzbag.

You have issues that need to be resolved before you CCW in public again. Pick two and practice more. Use common sense.

 

[corton93]

Thanks for all the responses. I know for any logical reason it is not practical in any way. For all those familiar with the birmingham area, I live right on the bessemer city line for what its worth. The only way I can rationalize it to myself is, as stated before, arming other people that I work with (over half of which are ex military) in an active shooter situation. My line of work wouldnt seem that dangerous. And in perspective its really not. But my boss is not a very popular man. In the last 3 years we have had 4 armed gunmen come in looking for my boss. I had to confront 3 of the 4 myself armed until they either left or county sheriffs arrived. Just a thought..

 

[Girodin]

You're not too far off there. Most new cars have:

1. An energy-absorbing collapse zone.
2. Front airbags
3. Side airbags
4. Seat belts
5. Automatic engine cutoff which activates when the airbags fire
6. Automatic seat belt release, which activates when the airbags deflate
7. Automatic door unlock, which activates when the seat belts unlock.
8. Satellite phone system which alerts a central office when the airbags deploy.

And no one calls that overkill.

First of all car accidents are much much much more common than self defense shootings. It actually makes sense to have as many distinct safety features as you can cram in a car. I know many many more people who have died in car accidents than have been murdered.

That aside the analogy is still flawed. Each of those vehicle features offer some sort of additional added value or function. Does having gun number three really offer you anything that having a primary, a reload and a bug wouldn't? And does gun number 4 really offer any actual protection versus just having the first three? I would contend it really doesn't.

Your list of vehicle features would be more akin to a person carrying not 4 guns but something like:

A gun
A reload
A knife
OC spray
A flashlight
A first aid kit
A cell phone


The thing about carrying four guns is it really doesn't offer any real world advantage in just about any scenario. Lets look at the common arguments for a BUG and look at what if any additional advantage a third and fourth gun add. People actively seeking out situations where there could be a gun fight (soldiers, swat, etc) do not in my experience carry 4 guns.

Reasons people often state they carry a bug:

1. Two is one one is none: In essence to have a whole separate redundant firearm is something should happen that puts the first out of commission. This could be catastrophic failure, or the gun is somehow lost. It is not hard to imagine a number of different scenarios where those types of things could occur.

2. Ability to access the second gun when the first is inaccessible. For example one's seat belt is buckled blocking access to the weapon carried at 4 o'clock but the pistol in an ankle holster is accessible. If you think that is a dumb example, imagine your own.

3. Carrying the second gun in a way that offers some advantage to the way the first gun is carried. What I often hear is the example of a gun that is pocket carried. This could be a coat pocket or pants pocket. On can go hand on gun in a discreet way not possible with an IWB firearm. One can fire through the coat pocket, etc, etc, etc.

4. As a New York reload. The idea is that instead of reloading one will just draw the second gun. Personally, I would encourage these people to do some reloads (and even malfunction drills for that matter on a shot timer. My belief is that doing so will show most people that a new york reload may not be a better choice than an actual reload. This may depend on how and where the second gun is carried versus a mag for a reload etc. For example transitioning from a rifle to a pistol carried OWB inside of 25M is faster. Play with a shot timer and see what works for you. That debate aside NY reload is a justification commonly given.

5. Arming another person: The idea here seems to be that there could be a scenario where you have both the time and opportunity to give the second gun you are carrying to an unarmed person. Ostensibly the expectation is that the unarmed person will be able to effectively use the BUG.

6. Why not? In essence the argument is often that a very small BUG like an LCP for example is so small, light and easy to carry that it offers no downside.

These are the most common justifications I see in discussions about carrying a bug. It may not be an exhaustive list but it is what I recall seeing most often. Lets look at these justifications and see if a third and then a fourth gun make much sense.

First, two is one. It is pretty hard to imagine the catastrophic failure of two separate guns. Given the rate of failures I have had with my defensive guns it is tough to imagine having two of them both go belly up simultaneously. I could see a single pistol catching a round or otherwise being damaged by some external force, the odds of that then also happening to the second gun? Also I can imagine how someone might lose their first gun, get shot in the hand/arm, trip and fall and drop it moving off of the X or to cover, etc, etc). Again the odds of then losing a second gun seem pretty remote.

Ability to access the second gun either more easily or in a way that offers some distinct advantage. I don't really see the third and certainly fourth guns offering real world advantages in this realm that would genuinely justify carrying numbers 3 and 4. Maybe I am just not imaginative enough.

New York reload: As stated above I think this often is not even a good justification for a bug. A spare mag is IMHO a better idea. Not only for speed but because you are then still in the fight with your primary weapon. A weapon that is in most instances a more capable weapon than the bug. If I run a G19 dry, I can probably be more effective quickly reloading it with another 15 rounds of 9mm than A) storing it, or holding it B) drawing say a J-frame and then having 5 shots in a gun that I am not as good with. If you think you are going to need to fire 30 rounds in a gun fight I'd carry a gun with a decent capacity and a reload not a 3rd and 4th limited capacity gun. The idea of getting to a fourth gun as a NY reload is pretty outlandish IMHO, particularly when one is also carrying spare mags.

I suppose if one adopts the justification of arming other people then each additional gun allows one more person to be armed.

Lastly the why not justification. When you get to the third and fourth gun there probably are costs to carrying them. As has been stated earlier the space and weight would probably be better given to other items. A flash light and knife make more sense than a third gun to me. An IFAK makes more sense to me than a fourth gun. The exact item doesn't really matter and may depend on ones location and lifestyle. The gist of it is that I'd rather carry something I might actually use, because the odds of using a fourth gun are astronomically low.

As others have pointed out there are other liabilities with having four guns. I wont rehash them all here. I will again note that whereas I think the ideas of an aftermarket FCG, or reloads getting you convicted of murder and largely nonsensical. I have personally seen someone carrying what was viewed as abnormally large number of weapons bite them in the butt. I think it affected how the investigating officers handled the situation and I know it affected how the prosecutor dealt with the case. This was not an anti gun prosecutor either. He is a pro RKBA guy who if he has pants on probably has a gun. In sum, doing weird stuff makes you look weird to people.

In sum, do what you want but it seems to be something that has potential downsides and if we are honest offers virtually no upside and certainly not in any kind of situation that is even remotely likely.

 

[medic15al]

In the Bessemer/Lipscomb/Brighton/ B'ham area???

Crap... Disregard my post, You have good reason!!!!!

I ran my first EMS truck for 5 years out of the Fairfield/Ensley station with call jurisdiction in Ensley, Fairfield, Lipscomb, Brighton, Fairgrounds area, and second out to Bessemer units..............

 

[ACP]

Me? Never more than 2.

2 j-frames
K-frame and J-frame
Hi Power and j-frame
1911 and j-frame
or just any one of those.
plus a knife, at least one reload, and pepper spray.

 

[BLB68]

But my boss is not a very popular man. In the last 3 years we have had 4 armed gunmen come in looking for my boss. I had to confront 3 of the 4 myself armed until they either left or county sheriffs arrived. Just a thought..

Here's another thought: How many times in the past 3 years have you submitted your resume to other jobs? I know that jobs aren't easy to come by, but if I worked for someone with that big of a target on his back, I'd start looking for another job. This isn't meant to be snarky, because I know people can't always extract themselves from unfavorable circumstances, but it's something to think about.

 

[.452]

1 each:
Main
Backup
Hideout

Blade
Mace.

 

[greenr18]

Not sure if op is trolling or not

 

[helitack32f1]

Not sure if op is trolling or not

This crossed my mind as well.

I have always felt fine carrying one, my G23. Only recently, after Paris and San Bernardino have I begun carrying a full G22 mag as well.

 

[JohnKSa]

But my boss is not a very popular man. In the last 3 years we have had 4 armed gunmen come in looking for my boss. I had to confront 3 of the 4 myself armed until they either left or county sheriffs arrived. Just a thought..

If you're expected to provide personal security for your boss, I hope you are being paid a reasonable salary for such work. I also hope you have a serious benefit package that would take care of your family in the event that you are killed protecting him, or provide for you if you are merely wounded in the pursuit of your duty (formal or informal) as a bodyguard and need long-term medical care or can no longer work.

I wasnt listing every item I edc, just the guns. I dont wear glasses. I carry my phone in my front right, and my work phone on the belt. A four-sevens preon 2 (with extra batteries). An emerson cqc 8 along with a sog flash 2. And a lighter.

Given your unusual situation, I think that you should also be wearing body armor. Why not? With everything else you're carrying, I doubt you'd even notice it.

 

[corton93]

Not trolling.

Im really not at liberty to say what my actual job is, but believe me, categorically it should not be a dangerous job at all. But I will say that my boss's occupation has put many individuals and families in severe debt, and or all together living on the streets. He is the anti-christ for most people we deal with and it leaves a bad taste in most peoples mouth's.

In short, it's not my occupation that's dangerous. It's just peoples human emotion that follows having to deal with people in my line of work.

Generally not very happy.

 

[MachIVshooter]

But I will say that my boss's occupation has put many individuals and families in severe debt, and or all together living on the streets.

Sounds like a shady lending firm or debt collection agency. Or he's a politician.

 

[JohnKSa]

In short, it's not my occupation that's dangerous.

If, in the course of your job, you have had to confront more than 1 "armed gunman" per year on average over the last 3 years then then your job is dangerous whether or not your "occupation" would normally be considered dangerous or not.

 

[ACP]

Sam1911 in post #44 spelled it all out. Please re-read it. I think the debate on this topic ended right there.

 

[Jesse H]

If OP says he trains frequently with all 4 of his CC weapons, great. I'm curious if he has a private range that allows folks to draw from his methods of concealment.

The public ranges I visit rarely allow people to draw from a holster unless it's a more advanced defensive pistol course. Even then, there are some instructors that don't allow anything other than an IWB or OWB holster in the 3 or 4 o'clock position.

I personally carry one pistol and full sized reload while off-duty. If I wanted to load myself down with useful weight while off duty I'd rather carry more mags for a primary weapon or body armor. But I'm ok with what I carry and my ability to use it. Also, I'd be concerned about my mobility and ability to fight and run with the added bulk of the arguably useless additional guns.

 

[surjimmy]

If you are not in some kind of law-enforcement, you do NOT need to carry but 1 gun.

 

[Sam1911]

If you are not in some kind of law-enforcement, you do NOT need to carry but 1 gun.

Now that's way too much of a blanket statement, I think. There's lots of people in this world and they've got lots of different roads to walk. Being in law enforcement isn't the only career where being armed is prudent, and carrying a second firearm is not unreasonable.

My point from before was that carrying three or four firearms passes beyond preparing for any sort of realistically "common" violent interaction scenario we foresee, if only because breaking and/or shooting empty (plus emptying spare mags) of that many weapons defies the findings of those who've studied violent encounters for decades.

The real takeaway message from such investigations seems to be that even reloading ONE primary firearm is exceptionally rare in common US violent encounters. It just almost never happens. (Until after hostilities have ceased, anyway.) A second firearm is a possible substitute for reloading the first. Hence the term "New York Reload" to mean carrying a second gun.

But if the accounts of violent crime find that even one reload is almost never used, where does the benefit come in from lugging around guns 3 and 4?

Some folks will say this is equivalent to wearing a seat belt and having an airbag in your car. Sure. That's primary gun (seat belt) and backup (air bag). Gun three is a bit more like always wearing a life jacket in case your car is suddenly caught in a flood, and gun four is pretty much equivalent of, "...I always drive with a parachute on in case the car gets blown up into the air and I need to eject."

So incredibly unlikely that the serious negatives of preparing this way completely outweigh any realistic benefits.

Even if the OP does manage to encounter three or four armed angry people every year (! !) that's not three or four at once, in one long, running gun battle. These are individual incidents, and in reality, not even one of these encounters has resulted in A shot fired, so strapping on extra weaponry is not an effective, directed response to these situations.

 

[jrdolall]

What kind of belt do you use?
I lived in Vestavia and worked a lot in North Birmingham back in the 80's. It's where I started carrying because I was visiting C-stores with bullet proof windows and dings in those windows. One of my customers was murdered at work. Colt Trooper .357 in a shoulder rig back when I wore a coat and tie every day.

I see a lot of comments about "need" and I try to never use that word with regards to firearms. I have an awful lot of guns that I don't particularly need. I would personally think that two guns would be the max I would "need" to carry but I hardly ever do even that. One IWB or pocket and I feel as protected as I would with four guns, two knives, and a rottweiler.