How many of you can defend yourself without your firearm

[robMaine]

I was at my gym(mma, boxing, BJJ) and it came up that I have a ccw. Me and my teammates got to talking about self defense and most of them felt that you should be able to defend yourself hand-to-hand before you think about carrying a gun.

I am not saying I agree with this train of thought, but it got me thinking. How many of you have the training to defend yourself if your weapon is taken away? Or at least the training in weapon retention if your attacker is close/closes the distance? No to step on any toes but I am not talking karate/TKD/McDojo forms, but full contact training.

This seems an important skill, not to mention the crucial adrenaline management /high stress decision experience a full contact combat sport/martial art gives you. Thoughts?

 

[Owen Sparks]

24 years of martial arts experience.

 

[M2 Carbine]

At the age of 74 my fighting days are long past. Now days I go by the old saying,
Don't mess with a old man. He will not fight you. He will just kill you.

 

[robMaine]

At the age of 74 my fighting days are long past. Now days I go by the old saying,
Don't mess with a old man. He will not fight you. He will just kill you.

Good saying! Older folks, those with physical disabilities and people with significantly smaller builds(I don't care how tough you are 110lbs vs 250lbs ain't fair) are the whole reason I don't 100% agree with this opinion.

 

[The-Reaver]

Well, I boxed over seas... and the army taught me GFT

I'll stick to 9mm though.

 

[mljdeckard]

Not very well.

Here's the thing. I have never had the inclination or constitution for fighting. Even being in the guard, I need to work to keep fit enough to pass my PT tests. I have had a few different flavors of training, including the jiu-jitsu stuff the army uses now, but I have realized a long time ago that my primary plan is to avoid trouble in the first place and shoot my way out of it. (And if it's not shoot-worthy trouble, to avoid it entirely.) I can pull out a few moves, a few surprises, but they are pretty much all sucker punches to distract someone long enough to draw my gun. But if I really ever get into it, I know the clock is ticking.

How does someone's sig line in here say; "I am not fluent in the language of violence. But I speak it well enough to get by where it is spoken.

 

[Bobson]

How does someone's sig line in here say; "I am not fluent in the language of violence. But I speak it well enough to get by where it is spoken.

Pretty sure that's LoosedHorse, but I might be wrong. I love that quote; this is where I first heard it.

I can pull out a few moves, a few surprises, but they are pretty much all sucker punches to distract someone long enough to draw my gun.

Nothing wrong with fighting dirty when you're fighting for your life. In fact, I encourage it.

 

[PastorAaron]

I train in a Combatives based form of Kenpo, but there are few situations I can think of in which drawing my firearm wouldn't be near the top of my options list. The way we train, I think I'd be more apt to guarantee a kill with a knife/unarmed than with a firearm...food for thought.

 

[Marlin60Man]

I've learned that it's best not to think so for sure, but I definitely have experience to say so. I don't really think that full-contact training stuff is really an excuse for actually having to fight someone off with your fists... I've seen things like full-contact stick fights, but even then you know that the person isn't going to try to hurt you or kill you.

Don't want to sound like a tough guy, but I've been on the ends of very severe beatings that I didn't know if I would get out of, but then ended them before I knew what I was doing. Never carried a firearm before, and my hands are what lasted me this long. So I would have to say yes.

 

[raubvogel]

I dunno. I think if you are really up close and personal with your assailant, a firearm might be a problem. I was always thought to consider firearm long distance (further than you can reach with your feet/hands) weapons and are better used when the other party can't take it off you. For closer distances...

 

[Nushif]

A couple years of Kenpo have taught me to inflict some decent damage, but frankly if I had to choose to not have a gun, I'd still have a nice solid baton.

 

[Owen Sparks]

handguns are not much good against someone who knows how to wrestle once you are on the ground. they will simply take it away from you.

 

[roninrlm]

Fighting

40 years of Okinawan Karate---countless fights, been shot, stabbed,ect. I will tell you now that you would NEVER get me on the ground without paying a HORRIBLE price. I do not expect to win, just mess you up as much as I can. There is NOTHING I would not do to defeat a attacker.

At 64 and with Cancer--I would still take your eye out or cut the tendons in your right leg or arm with my nice shinny Spyderco Endura. Then when you could not move I would beat you with my Cane.

Defending yourself is a mind set. If you are not willing to do what it takes to win---don't fight.

Ronin

 

[Loosedhorse]

Against what?

A vicious dog? A gang of drunks with broken beer bottles, or a gang of street criminals with guns and knives?

Or one drunk with no friends (that you see yet) who's calling you out, and you think you can take him? An old lady who's mad you took "her" parking space; she has an umbrella, and she's willing to use it!

With what? Bare hands and shod feet? Improvised weapons? Knife (knives), pepper spray?

Or awareness, attitude and "command presence"?

Or perhaps, was your question: who out there practices martial arts a lot, like me?

Oh, to answer your question, yes: I do know how to defend myself against some threats without a gun.

How does someone's sig line in here say; "I am not fluent in the language of violence. But I speak it well enough to get by where it is spoken.

 

[scaatylobo]

M2 CARBINE = Got that right

"At the age of 74 my fighting days are long past. Now days I go by the old saying,
Don't mess with a old man. He will not fight you. He will just kill you."


I am 64 and have enough disabilitys that all the decades of training wont do me squat good.

I 'might' have a chance to do one or two moves,depending on the distance and number of attackers.

But the old adage is correct.

btw,I still hit the bag and train with stick and blade.

 

[fallout mike]

I've only been viciously attacked once, by 2 guys, one with a knife. Bottom line, I left them laying there while only receiving a minor 5" slice to my face. Now though due to a recent accident to my right arm I can't fight. I will be shooting.

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

Isn't that why baseball bats are made?

 

[heeler]

At 59 I can still give a good account of myself until I run out of gas.
I was an amateur boxer back in the late 60's until early 1970's and after having 23 fights in the ring I can tell you most guys out on the street dont know a great deal about how to really fight smart so someone who has had true experience in boxing,wrestling,and some martial arts should be able to hang in there unless he's totally out of shape or the opponents weight and size difference is just over whelming.

 

[towboat_er]

I'm getting some age on me. My punches would be aimed for their throat. If I cant get their throat, I'll crack their nuts.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

How many of you can defend yourself without your firearm

That is a good question. A lot of folks don't understand what "defending yourself" means.

I find it strange when I read threads on gun forums about all of the self-described well prepared, heads on swivels, carry 24/7, run toward gun shots, superman cape wearing tactical sheepdogs that admit to being defenseless without a gun.

 

[AOK]

Prior to last year I had zero hand-to-hand experience. I had been taking classes and getting one-on-one work with a firearms instructor for a few years. I worked (and continue to work) very hard on fundamentals and ttp's with my EDC.

Fast forward a couple years I took a couple edged weapons classes and it quickly opened my eyes that there is a good chance I will have to do a few things beyond just simply getting off the X to draw and dump rounds into the assailant. Right after the edged weapons classes and after looking at different martial arts I decided to start taking Krav a few days a week. In additon to our Krav classes, our instructor has put additional classes together regarding firearm retention and deployment of firearms in close quarter situations.

So can I handle myself with my hands if I had no firearm? Until I am actually in that life/death situation I will never know for sure. What I do know is I will never be able to handle myself well enough. There is always room for improvement and opportunities to learn. I will continue to take classes, train, and/or practice as realistically as possible everyday. Firearms AND hand-to-hand.....

 

[tepin]

Another good book by Rory Miller is "Violence: A Writers Guide".

The author mentions numerous times that there really is very little one can do to defend themselves against an experienced street thug. Point being, action beats reaction and a 2x4 to the back of the head and not expecting it is going to do enough damage to put you on the ground and out for the count. The author also states that there is a big difference between an experienced street fighter and the martial arts "expert" with 100 years of sparing and competitions under the belt. Again he claims 'no match'.

To answer the OP question... awareness is really the best defense I have and getting out of the area before the SHTF. I wouldn't have the stamina or lung capacity to last against someone half my age and in shape (did I mention my back surgery).

Good question.

 

[robMaine]

That is a good question. A lot of folks don't understand what "defending yourself" means.

I find it strange when I read threads on gun forums about all of the self-described well prepared, heads on swivels, carry 24/7, run toward gun shots, superman cape wearing tactical sheepdogs that admit to being defenseless without a gun.

handguns are not much good against someone who knows how to wrestle once you are on the ground. they will simply take it away from you.

These are the two big points I was getting at. Now this isn't to say that you will know what will happen until you are in a specific situation, but I really wouldn't feel comfortable thinking my gun was going to protect me if I had no idea how to hold onto it, if it came to that.

Maybe I should phrase it differently, who would feel comfortable in a situation armed or unarmed, where your attacked is less the 4ft away, because I think a fearless, remotely fit person could take a gun away from the majority of CCW holders before they got a shot off and that is a scary thought.

 

[robMaine]

Another good book by Rory Miller is "Violence: A Writers Guide".

The author mentions numerous times that there really is very little one can do to defend themselves against an experienced street thug. Point being, action beats reaction and a 2x4 to the back of the head and not expecting it is going to do enough damage to put you on the ground and out for the count. The author also states that there is a big difference between an experienced street fighter and the martial arts "expert" with 100 years of sparing and competitions under the belt. Again he claims 'no match'.

To answer the OP question... awareness is really the best defense I have and getting out of the area before the SHTF. I wouldn't have the stamina or lung capacity to last against someone half my age and in shape (did I mention my back surgery).

Good question.

Another great point, I trained for years before working as a bouncer and then private security for a bit. Let me tell you, without Vale Tudo(google it) sparring it would have been a brutal wakeup call, even with some serious full contact work, it was a completely different experience. The problem comes down to a street thug is actually trying to hurt/kill you and in your mind it is still a sport/fun. Big difference.

 

[heeler]

Tepin,I am not sure who you are referring to when you say some author says "no match".
The street thug or someone with lots of real training with true real life contact sports.
I can see it if he is referring to what I commonly talk to others about these so called strip center Dojos's that crank out so called black belt "experts".
What a joke.