How many want billery?

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As long as the bread and circuses continue, what difference does it make? That's all anybody's interested in anyway.............:rolleyes:
 
I find it interesting that many who tout Billary as the anti-Christ simultaneously forgive Jorge Bush many of his sins because "the President has no power on his own".
Ya gotta wonder...
Biker
 
Lone_Gunman said:
The lawsuit pre-emption bill is in fact a good thing for gun companies for sure, but maybe not such a good thing for citizens and the Constitution.

First, remember that no gun company has ever gone out of business because of lawsuits that would have been prevented by this law, so the motivation for this law is questionable to me in the first place.

Second, those who would tout this law as beneficial to the citizens will claim that if the gun maker's liability goes down, so does his cost of manufacturing, and this savings will be passed on to consumers in the form of decreased retail prices. Only problem is, the price of guns has not (and will not) go down.

Third, this law increases the power of the federal government, specifically the Congress. Congress has now banned you, the citizen, from seeking redress in the courts. We support this now, because we think it is protecting our guns. But what if Congress decided to entirely ban civil lawsuits? If the gun maker lawsuit ban is judged Constitutional, then any lawsuit ban could be as well. Do we really want to increase the scope of federal control over our lives?

Finally, before you get to gung-ho about this lawsuit ban, you need to reconcile it with the Seventh Amendment, which guarantees a right to a trial by jury for civil matters exceeding $20.
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Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the law in question protect the Gun industry from suits where a criminal misused a gun, or when the Gun industry is not directly liable. I believe in issues where the gun industry is directly liable (product liability, direct illegal sales...) they can be sued.

I don't believe the Founding fathers intended Ford to be held liable for the Drunk Drivers of this Country.!!!
 
I thought Jimmy Carter was a terrible president, but what did you have a problem with as far as his integrity is concerned?
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I watched Carter on Leno the other night, implying that Bush hadn't won the '00 Election even while claiming, in the next breath, the book he was pushing wasn't politically partisan. He would say vicious things in an unctuous tone, something he's clearly perfected over a long and hypocritical life. Carter claimed that his was a Presidency built on peace. I think he meant appeasement but he's never been able to make that distinction. We owe what's going in Iran today to him. Yes, he really shows integrity when he goes abroad and criticizes American policy and our troops while we are at war. For me Carter is part of the Rockefeller -spawned globalism crowd--who do you think put him into politics?
 
Hunter Rose said:
Use the niave young girl again: teh AWB sunset was the Repubs takin' us on a date, because we were gettin' restive...
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So the Repubs take us on a date, while the Dems gang-rape us in an alley.

You're making me want to vote Democrat :rolleyes:

Of course no political party is 100% committed to any particular cause. They are in business, only their currency is votes not money. They're not going to support anything unless they gain votes by that support. How much they support any particular cause is based on how many votes they think they'll win by supporting the cause, balanced against how many votes they think they'll lose by offending those who are against that cause.

If gun owners keep turning out support for the party that is more supportive of RKBA, that rewards the party for supporting RKBA. They do pay attention to these things, and if they see that their 40% support for RKBA is winning them votes, they're likely to ramp up to 45% support.

If gun owners quit supporting the Republicans, and the anti's turn out in droves to vote against them, they'll figure there isn't much gain in supporting RKBA and you will see their policies swing away from us.

Voting for goofball third-party magic wand candidates does nothing but elect the party that is LEAST supportive of RKBA.
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the law in question protect the Gun industry from suits where a criminal misused a gun, or when the Gun industry is not directly liable. I believe in issues where the gun industry is directly liable (product liability, direct illegal sales...) they can be sued.
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You are correct.

But if Congress has power to ban junk lawsuits, they also have the power to ban any lawsuits, such as product liability, medical malpractice, wrongful death, etc. Do we really want to increase federal power?


I don't believe the Founding fathers intended Ford to be held liable for the Drunk Drivers of this Country.!!!
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I agree. That is why to founding fathers set up the civil court system, instead of banning junk lawsuits back then. It is hard to legislate what is and is not a junk lawsuit. The founders expected a jury to listen to the case and decide if it was worthy. If not, such as the case where Ford is sued for drunk drivers, then the jury should make the appropriate decision, and rule in favor of Ford. According to the 7th, it sounds like they thought any matter of dispute worth more than $20 deserved a jury trial.

Unfortunately, this system of trial-by-jury depends on the jury doing the right thing, and in today's society, where personal responsibility does not exist and it is always somebody elses fault, weak mind juries are manipulated by unscrupulous attorneys.


------
Also, on another topic...

Longeyes, with respect to integrity of Jimmy Carter... The things you cite all occurred after Carter left office. While he was President, what did he do that demonstrated a lack of integrity? (By the way, I don't have an opinion one way or another about his integrity, I was 14 in 1976. So don't flame me, educate me instead.)
 
Lone_Gunman said:
GoRon,
I thought Jimmy Carter was a terrible president, but what did you have a problem with as far as his integrity is concerned?
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I want to know the answer to that too. Ineffective as president, annoying little globalist leftist? Yes. Crook? AFAIK, no.
 
If you think a Republican wouldn't be a gun banner just remember what GWB said when asked about re-newing the AWB "When congress sends me a bill I'll sign it" Quite frankly with the way the GOP has ran this country they deserve to loose everything.
 
Of course no political party is 100% committed to any particular cause.
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I don't equate 2A with "Save the Whales" or "No Nukes." I'm not asking for much, just a semblence of committment to that Constitution thingy I seem to remember hearing about at one point in time. It's not a cause I want to see supported, but rather a devotion to founding principles. I don't think it's too much to ask for the American government to uphold the rights and laws outlined in founding American documents.

That means I can't vote Republicrat.
 
>If gun owners keep turning out support for the party that is more supportive of RKBA, that rewards the party for supporting RKBA. They do pay attention to these things, and if they see that their 40% support for RKBA is winning them votes, they're likely to ramp up to 45% support.<

"Why buy the cow when you're gettin' the milk for free?". I swear I'm gonna macro it...

I'll post it yet again: we're the niave young girl. The Republicans swear they'll respect us in the morning, that someday they'll marry us. And we keep "puttin' out" for them. So long as they think we'll keep voting for them because "the Dems are far worse!" (which is true, but beside the point), they won't really do anything for us...

I'm not saying that we should now have no restrictions: that would be too much to expect. But damn: they could TRY and repeal SOMETHING! The 86 MG ban, GCA, NFA... there are LOTS of bad gun laws out there. Heck, just trying to remove certain parts of NFA would count (maybe remove silencers from it?). But they haven't actively done diddly (yes, I know how PLCA benefits us, but it ain't much for 5 years). Not even an attempt...

And yet y'all claim "Republicans are the friends of gun owners!". Heck... the antis ran an add in 2000 showing a member of the NRA saying "if Bush wins, we'll have an office in the White House". What have they used that office for, a place to order pizza?
 
If you think a Republican wouldn't be a gun banner just remember what GWB said when asked about re-newing the AWB "When congress sends me a bill I'll sign it" Quite frankly with the way the GOP has ran this country they deserve to loose everything.
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This sums it up..

When the repubs "lose everything" the DEMS will then be in power.

shumer, mizz fineswine and sarah are awaitin in the wings just for this.
 
personally, I would not automatically voter for a particular party.

I do not think that GWB has been a particularly firm supporter of second-amendment rights. I also have other problems with his presidency, espeicially his (lack of) action against illegal immigration. Howver, it doesn't matter, since he can't run again anyway.

Hillary is another matter altogether. Although she is trying to talk the "moderate" talk now, look at her record. She never hid her desire for social engineering- and who here believes that the society that she would like to engineer into existence would include any kind of firearms rights?

Now of course it could be that the repubs could nominate someone who is only marginally better. It is difficult to imagine them nominating anyone worse.
 
I want to know the answer to that too. Ineffective as president, annoying little globalist leftist? Yes. Crook? AFAIK, no.
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True enough, not a crook.

His rolling over and groveling before every left wing dictator he's met, meddling in foriegn policy undermining the last two presidents and using his stature as a "good" man for partison attacks may not be an indication of his integrity.

I just cannot help but spit every time I hear his name.
 
If the GOP loses to Hillary it will be because people like me.

We have supported them in spite of their not holding fast to sound principles of small/less government.

If we stay home on election day then they will lose.

They keep moving the goal post left seeing how much we will put up with. I think it has reached the breaking point, they better move strongly to the right soon or they are history.
 
The only thing Carter has done that is worth a darn since he left his presidency is build a few houses. His meddelling in world affairs has only hurt.

Hillary Clinton is nearly the last person on earth that I would vote for. She would work to turn this country into a more socialist country, all for the better good of mankind. Taxes, more is better because we liberals know better than you do; Guns forget it; Health care, government only; Supreme Court, very liberal picks; world-lets get along at any cost; China-more technology transfers with the excuse that they would do it anyway. Do we really want Bill as the first Lady? That would suit Hillary's ego.
 
Talk about "sheeple"!

Will I vote Republican? No. Will I vote Democrat? No. I will either vote for the best independent, or I'll write in a candidate. I've had it with the whole lot of the lying politicians.

If more sheeply became voting people, a collective movement could change politics forever. Face it--NEITHER the Republicans nor the Democrats are our friends!

I am willing to listen to others' opinions. However, at this point, my determination is quite strong. It would require one extraordinary argument to change my intent. Before this coming election, I would NEVER have voted independent.

I am the last hold-out of my entire family to consider independent. My father, a retired professor (33 years) of teaching political science and history has finally demonstrated that his views and intents are truly sound! By the way, guns is not the topic of greatest interest to me...it's our border, and the politicians' lack of adequate support for the troops. For what it's worth, my wife will vote likewise (she says).

Doc2005:)
 
It's too early to worry about it.

I think that Hillary can get nominated, but getting elected would be problematical for her. I also think her popularity is a media manufactured item. She certainly hasn't done much in the Senate except get her name in the papers.

On the other hand, McCain could get elected, but would have a hard time getting nominated....altho he's been sucking up to the right lately...85% of Democrats, 68% of independents, and 48% of Republicans. - see McCain as favorable.

BDS - Bush Derangement Syndrome is going bye-bye as he ain't running again. Recent polls show that the non-moonbat Dems don't much like what their party is doing either...and looking toward the center. Americans of all political stripes prefer their parties to stand for something other than 'anti-'.

We are not in the center on 2A. I'm not even sure what the center means for this issue... as it shouldn't even be discussed past 'shall not be infringed'. Both sides will hope to ignore it in the campaign. This is why it is critical to have the right guys and gals on SCOTUS...ballot box, jury box, and you know the rest. We need a real 2A case on the court with the right court....something that calls out an individual right and finds every anti-firearms law since 1934 unconstitutional.

You could very easily see a Hillary/McCain contest. For me that's a no starter. That would be the only matchup that would keep me home or voting 3rd party (like I have before)...any other right of center candidate would get my vote...as center-right is the best I can realistically hope for.
 
GlenJ said:
If you think a Republican wouldn't be a gun banner just remember what GWB said when asked about re-newing the AWB "When congress sends me a bill I'll sign it" Quite frankly with the way the GOP has ran this country they deserve to loose everything.
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Maybe so, but NOT to the Democrats. That would be like saying, Nyeah, nyeah, take that! Same goes for throwing your vote away on a third party, and yes, that is what you are doing, most times. Support your third party all you want, but keep an eye on the polls. They are a pretty good gauge of what people are thinking. If, by the time comes, your third party doesn't stand a chance, you are pissing your vote away. Vote instead for the man of the 2 main parties, who thinks most like you. If the polls are close on all 3, then by all means, take a chance.

BTW, please not McCain! Even so, I would prefer him to Hillary. But not over Miller or Dingell. And this from a registered Republican.
 
Anyone who honestly believes that GW & Co. have been good for our country needs to lay off the booze.

Would I vote for Hillary?

Hell NO!

Have I ever voted for a presidential candidate that wasn't the lesser of two evils? Absolutely not!

You gotta love the two party system.:rolleyes:
 
Stevie-Ray said:
Maybe so, but NOT to the Democrats. That would be like saying, Nyeah, nyeah, take that! Same goes for throwing your vote away on a third party, and yes, that is what you are doing, most times. Support your third party all you want, but keep an eye on the polls. They are a pretty good gauge of what people are thinking. If, by the time comes, your third party doesn't stand a chance, you are pissing your vote away. Vote instead for the man of the 2 main parties, who thinks most like you. If the polls are close on all 3, then by all means, take a chance.

BTW, please not McCain! Even so, I would prefer him to Hillary. But not over Miller or Dingell. And this from a registered Republican.
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Seems to me that the only vote pissed or thrown away is the one that wasn't cast.
Then again, maybe a bunch of dead Americans that fought for this country's independance a couple of centuries were wrong.
I hope not.
I believe that I'll put my faith in their vision, but thanks for your input.
Biker
 
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