ny32182
Member
I am crimping some non-cannelured bullets in a Lee FCD. I have noticed that the OAL of the cartride expands just a little bit after the crimp. Is that normal?
How much crimp is too much?
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ny32182
Member
I just pulled one of the bullets, and I am, in fact, making a very significant indented "belt line" around the bullet.
K3
Member
Many say it's not necessary to crimp bullets without a cannelure. I don't crimp them myself. The neck tension is plenty on bolt guns.
I use the Lee FCDs for my .30-30 though. I do this because a) there's a cannelure on the Core-Lokt bullets I use and b) the nature of the magazine.
I have many Lee FCDs that I've never used.
I use the Lee FCDs for my .30-30 though. I do this because a) there's a cannelure on the Core-Lokt bullets I use and b) the nature of the magazine.
I have many Lee FCDs that I've never used.
ny32182
Member
I plan to shoot these in a semi-auto, btw.
K3
Member
I load VMax bullets for an AR. These have no cannelure, and I don't crimp. Hundreds of paper targets killed and number of bobcats and foxes too. Never an issue.
I do put a light crimp on 55gr FMJs. These have a cannelure. The crimp is light, but upon inspection, you can see the case mouth barely turned into the cannelure. I'm not sure why I crimp these. I don't need to, but the cannelure makes me do it.
Edit: BTW, I've been loading for only about a year, so take my advice with a grain of salt. There are many here far more knowledgeable than I am. I only know what has worked for me so far.
I do put a light crimp on 55gr FMJs. These have a cannelure. The crimp is light, but upon inspection, you can see the case mouth barely turned into the cannelure. I'm not sure why I crimp these. I don't need to, but the cannelure makes me do it.
Edit: BTW, I've been loading for only about a year, so take my advice with a grain of salt. There are many here far more knowledgeable than I am. I only know what has worked for me so far.
ny32182
Member
Maybe I should lighten up the crimp a little then...
Can you cause problems (specifically, dangerous pressure, and as a secondary concern, less accuracy) by over crimping?
If so, where is that line drawn?
Can you cause problems (specifically, dangerous pressure, and as a secondary concern, less accuracy) by over crimping?
If so, where is that line drawn?
sublimaze41
Member
Anybody want to explain the consequences of overcrimping?? I too am curious.
The Bushmaster
Member
Just what are you crimping...? 9mm X 19, .40 S&W, .45 ACP? What?
If you are crimping any of the above stop. All you have to do is crimp enough to remove any belling of the case mouth left over after seating the bullet. And no more...
Answer...Over crimping the case mouth will or may deform the bullet whether it's jacketed or lead...
If you are crimping any of the above stop. All you have to do is crimp enough to remove any belling of the case mouth left over after seating the bullet. And no more...
Answer...Over crimping the case mouth will or may deform the bullet whether it's jacketed or lead...
ny32182
Member
I am crimping .223 rounds, intended to be fired in an AR15. The bullet is a 68gr Hornady BTHP with no cannelure.
I pulled a couple of the bullets, and there is an indented beltline on them now.
I pulled a couple of the bullets, and there is an indented beltline on them now.
Sport45
Member
Some would say you're ruining a perfectly good bullet, and I'd be one of them. If you absolutely have to crimp these bullets get a taper crimp die so you don't disturb the jacket.
You probably don't need a crimp. Measure the overall length of a uncrimped cartridge and put it in your magazine with a factory round above it. Load and fire the factory round. Eject the uncrimped cartridge and measure the OAL again to check for bullet pull or setback. My philosophy is to only crimp if I need to. YMMV
I'm afraid I don't have a clue about an aswer to your original question as I've never measured a cartridge before and after crimping. I suppose it's possible to squeeze a bullet enough to make it longer, but it's hard to imagine.
ny32182
Member
I've just discovered that I'm not seating the bullets deep enough to fit more than one in the magazine at a time anyway...
Does anyone know the speced max OAL that is supposed to load and feed reliably from an AR15 magazine?
At this moment, I am wishing that I didn't crimp them, since if I had not, I could just seat them down a little with no real consequence. Now I have a theory that if I do that, I will disturb the crimp/"beltline" relationship, which won't be good.
I can shoot them one at a time, but the results won't really be applicable to future loads that I will try with these bullets.
Does anyone know the speced max OAL that is supposed to load and feed reliably from an AR15 magazine?
At this moment, I am wishing that I didn't crimp them, since if I had not, I could just seat them down a little with no real consequence. Now I have a theory that if I do that, I will disturb the crimp/"beltline" relationship, which won't be good.
I can shoot them one at a time, but the results won't really be applicable to future loads that I will try with these bullets.
ny32182
Member
Thanks... that sounds about right from what I'm seeing here so far.
I wonder if I should shoot the ones I've already made one at a time, or seat them down a little further.
I wonder if I should shoot the ones I've already made one at a time, or seat them down a little further.
The Bushmaster
Member
And I don't crimp my .30-06 rounds either and they are loaded into a box magazine and have had no set back. (Browning A-bolt)
ranger335v
Member
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The moment you begin deforming the bullet you have gone too far. Going beyond producing a good grip on the bullet you will almost surely harm accuracy.
K3
Member
To echo others, 2.26 is the max OAL for an AR magazine. I load my 60gr VMax to 2.26 and they just fit into the mag. Other bullets will require a different OAL. For example, the Hornady 55gr FMJ requires 2.20 (or is it 2.22? I don't have my data handy here at work). Anyhow, it's less than the 60gr VMax.
There's an AMax bullet that calls for a longer OAL than 2.26. Can't remember if it's 75 or 80 grain, the Hornady people told me it IS meant for an AR. You just have to load them one at a time. It is for some type of slow fire competition.
There's an AMax bullet that calls for a longer OAL than 2.26. Can't remember if it's 75 or 80 grain, the Hornady people told me it IS meant for an AR. You just have to load them one at a time. It is for some type of slow fire competition.
ny32182
Member
The OAL of the cartridge required to fit in the magazine should not change from bullet to bullet?
The OAL listed for this round is 2.25. I figured I would load them a little longer just for a safety margin. I have loaded them to an *average* of about 2.28, and they do not fit in the magazine. They range, I'd say, from 2.275 to 2.285.
I have two concerns with seating them deeper to fit in the magazine:
1) If I seat them deeper, the longest one has to be 2.255 or so, which would put the shortest ones slightly under the listed length (about 2.245)... will this cause a safety concern?
2) If I disturb the current "crimp groove" arrangement, will this cause problems of any sort?
I *can* shoot them one at a time now, if I have to.
The LEE FCD literature says that it will create a groove around the bullet. Is that not something that is typically done?
The OAL listed for this round is 2.25. I figured I would load them a little longer just for a safety margin. I have loaded them to an *average* of about 2.28, and they do not fit in the magazine. They range, I'd say, from 2.275 to 2.285.
I have two concerns with seating them deeper to fit in the magazine:
1) If I seat them deeper, the longest one has to be 2.255 or so, which would put the shortest ones slightly under the listed length (about 2.245)... will this cause a safety concern?
2) If I disturb the current "crimp groove" arrangement, will this cause problems of any sort?
I *can* shoot them one at a time now, if I have to.
The LEE FCD literature says that it will create a groove around the bullet. Is that not something that is typically done?
K3
Member
If you mean from a 60 grain bullet 'A' to a 69 grain bullet 'B', then they most certainly could be different. If you mean for bullets of the same style, then they ought to be the same OAL, especially for FMJs and bullets like the VMax. For bullets with a lead tip, I do notice a little variation, and that in my estimation is due to minor deformities and differences in the tip.
If the OAL is listed at 2.25, load it at 2.25 and try it. I know for a fact that 2.260 will fit in my magazines, and I have many different brands and styles.
I *think* that seating them deeper increases the pressure. Others should feel free to correct me on this.
Not sure what you mean here. If you mean what I think you do, I'd pull the bullets and reseat new ones to the correct depth, but that's just me.
I wouldn't want to shoot them one at a time. I'd redo them.
The Lee FCD does leave a groove, and this is why I don't use it on non-cannelured bullets. On a .223, if your cases are sized properly, the neck tension is sufficient to keep the bullet in place. If the bullet can be slid around by hand after seating, your pin needs a litttle TLC. Chuck it in a drill, and get some very fine sandpaper (600 or finer) and take a .001 or .002 off the diameter of the pin. I've never seen this on the Lee FL sizing dies, but I have had to do it on neck sizing dies. That said, you're probably better off FL sizing for an autoloader anyway.
ny32182
Member
I hate to just throw out 60 bullets, but I guess its only about $12 worth at the end of the day.
I could deal with shooting them one at a time, but whatever the results were, they would basically be meaningless since my next iteration of this load will be seated to fit in the magazine anyway.
And I don't know that I will eliminate the crimp, but I will back off of it big time. I'm just not sure I trust that neck tension...
I could deal with shooting them one at a time, but whatever the results were, they would basically be meaningless since my next iteration of this load will be seated to fit in the magazine anyway.
And I don't know that I will eliminate the crimp, but I will back off of it big time. I'm just not sure I trust that neck tension...
K3
Member
I use it on big magnum rifles with no ill effects.
ny32182
Member
But those are semiautos with a possible 30 rounds in the mag, right?
ny32182
Member
Ok, I guess I will try some with no crimp and see what happens.
K3
Member
No, but there is a lot of recoil energy.
I've never had a problem on an AR, and that bolt slams home pretty hard.
Question for others in the know: If you have an autoloader, say an M1A, and you are using non-cannelured bullets, do you crimp?
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