PILMAN
Member
I posted up another response, this time regarding hoplophobia and the fear of weapons. Here is a response I got. Any suggestions to this?
by Kevin Ronayne on Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:53 pm
A stapler, a carving knife, a power drill and an X-ray machine are all "inanimate objects" as well. They all have ostensibly peaceful and constructive purposes, but we are all quite careful about how we use them. We are also wary of them, in proportion to our familiarity (or lack of) with them, how much control we have over them, and how much damage they can cause in the event of carelessness or improper use.
Kevin Ronayne wrote:
Leaving aside the question of phobias in humans and other animals (a fascinating subject in it's own right), I dispute that you should not fear an inanimate object. A weapon is usually much more than just an "inanimate object". A pebble is an inanimate object, but so is a one-tonne boulder perched on a cliff above you. Are man-made objects such as an automatic rifle, a 60-ton tank, or a nuclear warhead all just "inanimate objects"?
And his replys to me
by Kevin Ronayne on Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:22 pm
Zionist wrote:
Kevin Ronayne wrote:
Leaving aside the question of phobias in humans and other animals (a fascinating subject in it's own right), I dispute that you should not fear an inanimate object. A weapon is usually much more than just an "inanimate object". A pebble is an inanimate object, but so is a one-tonne boulder perched on a cliff above you. Are man-made objects such as an automatic rifle, a 60-ton tank, or a nuclear warhead all just "inanimate objects"?
Perhaps if it were used in a threatening matter. If a person were to pick up a rock and point it towards me as if they were going to throw it, why do I feel threatened or fear? Generally the same reason as if you were crossing traffic and saw cars coming at you at full speed. The issue with weapons is that the media and the political groups associated against them generally project the object as having a mind of it's own.
I am not aware of any such general tendencies to vilify weapons or weapons system themselves. Most people understand that what matters is the combination of the weapon itself and the willingness to use it in a certain way and/or for certain ends. The unreliability or instability of the person or organisation controlling the weapons would also result in a very natural fear of the combination of weapon and operator, as would any known reliability or control issues in the weapons system.
Zionist wrote:
Perhaps I am different but I view weapons as a form of art, something interesting about how they were designed. To me, it's the same way I view an animals defense. I've always been interested in how bears attack or defend themselves. In the same way, it's similar with humans.
To an extent, I share your fascination with the design of weapons, the history of their design, and all that this entails. At one level though, they are still just objects designed to do a job. A Vulcan bomber may look beautiful, but it was not designed to look beautiful to the human eye - any aesthetic value it possesses would be just purely coincidental. Washing machines are not very pretty to look at, but they do the job they were designed to do.
Zionist wrote:
We have our tools (thanks to technology) to protect ourselves.
Almost all of our weapons today are designed for use against other humans with weapons. Unlike other animals and plants, we can make concious decisions about whether or not we really want or need certain weapons or levels of weapons usage.
Zionist wrote:
The subject appears to be very controversial though. Politically speaking, it's a constant debate of civilized vs uncivilized. I really don't see anything uncivilized about weapons, perhaps using them to kill out of aggression absolutely. The weapon it's self should not be feared though, you don't fear a shark or a lion at the zoo do you? I wouldn't unless it were coming after me in a threatening matter.
The weapon most certainly matters when one considers what a given weapon is designed to do, and how it can be employed. A hand pistol is a trivial weapon in comparison to others, but it is easy to produce, distribute, conceal and operate.
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within
organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
_________________________________________________________________________________
This was posted on a humanist atheist forum. It's not easy to convince them.
by Kevin Ronayne on Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:53 pm
A stapler, a carving knife, a power drill and an X-ray machine are all "inanimate objects" as well. They all have ostensibly peaceful and constructive purposes, but we are all quite careful about how we use them. We are also wary of them, in proportion to our familiarity (or lack of) with them, how much control we have over them, and how much damage they can cause in the event of carelessness or improper use.
Kevin Ronayne wrote:
Leaving aside the question of phobias in humans and other animals (a fascinating subject in it's own right), I dispute that you should not fear an inanimate object. A weapon is usually much more than just an "inanimate object". A pebble is an inanimate object, but so is a one-tonne boulder perched on a cliff above you. Are man-made objects such as an automatic rifle, a 60-ton tank, or a nuclear warhead all just "inanimate objects"?
And his replys to me
by Kevin Ronayne on Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:22 pm
Zionist wrote:
Kevin Ronayne wrote:
Leaving aside the question of phobias in humans and other animals (a fascinating subject in it's own right), I dispute that you should not fear an inanimate object. A weapon is usually much more than just an "inanimate object". A pebble is an inanimate object, but so is a one-tonne boulder perched on a cliff above you. Are man-made objects such as an automatic rifle, a 60-ton tank, or a nuclear warhead all just "inanimate objects"?
Perhaps if it were used in a threatening matter. If a person were to pick up a rock and point it towards me as if they were going to throw it, why do I feel threatened or fear? Generally the same reason as if you were crossing traffic and saw cars coming at you at full speed. The issue with weapons is that the media and the political groups associated against them generally project the object as having a mind of it's own.
I am not aware of any such general tendencies to vilify weapons or weapons system themselves. Most people understand that what matters is the combination of the weapon itself and the willingness to use it in a certain way and/or for certain ends. The unreliability or instability of the person or organisation controlling the weapons would also result in a very natural fear of the combination of weapon and operator, as would any known reliability or control issues in the weapons system.
Zionist wrote:
Perhaps I am different but I view weapons as a form of art, something interesting about how they were designed. To me, it's the same way I view an animals defense. I've always been interested in how bears attack or defend themselves. In the same way, it's similar with humans.
To an extent, I share your fascination with the design of weapons, the history of their design, and all that this entails. At one level though, they are still just objects designed to do a job. A Vulcan bomber may look beautiful, but it was not designed to look beautiful to the human eye - any aesthetic value it possesses would be just purely coincidental. Washing machines are not very pretty to look at, but they do the job they were designed to do.
Zionist wrote:
We have our tools (thanks to technology) to protect ourselves.
Almost all of our weapons today are designed for use against other humans with weapons. Unlike other animals and plants, we can make concious decisions about whether or not we really want or need certain weapons or levels of weapons usage.
Zionist wrote:
The subject appears to be very controversial though. Politically speaking, it's a constant debate of civilized vs uncivilized. I really don't see anything uncivilized about weapons, perhaps using them to kill out of aggression absolutely. The weapon it's self should not be feared though, you don't fear a shark or a lion at the zoo do you? I wouldn't unless it were coming after me in a threatening matter.
The weapon most certainly matters when one considers what a given weapon is designed to do, and how it can be employed. A hand pistol is a trivial weapon in comparison to others, but it is easy to produce, distribute, conceal and operate.
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within
organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
_________________________________________________________________________________
This was posted on a humanist atheist forum. It's not easy to convince them.