How should I "train" with my shotgun?

[swampcrawler]

Goofy sounding question, I know. But hear me out. Iv always been better than any of my friends and family with essentially any weapon in any sittiation we have ever goofed around with. That was always good enough for me. Till recently.

Getting a little older (well.. 20. More mature maybe), and am realizing that being a little better than your buddies doesn't mean so much, as I know many of you guys, any competitive shooter, any well trained and practiced military or LEO, can absolutely shame me. I want to start doing more to actually train with my weapons of choice. My 870 and my HK45.

Problem is, I have no idea how to. I mean I can manipulate the weapons fairly well, and usually hit what I point them at, but I'm looking for suggestions on how to train to the best of my ability.

Unfortunately finances (or lack there of) eleminate the option of a class for the time being. What I do have is some family land that allows me essentially a free, safe, unrestricted firing range. But what do I do on it? Throw and shoot clays? Shoot shillouettes? Get heart rate up and do above? I know this is an insanely broad question but id prefer advice from you fine gentlemen than YouTube comandos or my own imagination. I hope my request makes sense, and hope to get some good suggestions. Thanks for your time guys.

 

[MasterSergeantA]

There are any number of videos on YouTube that demonstrate at least some of what you want to learn. The 'grain of salt' rule applies because there are some folks on there who probably shouldn't be allowed to OWN a firearm, much less play with one. Your local library might have some videos (like the MAGPUL tactical series) that would help...or ask around your local gun shop; you might be able to borrow some there.

Just my $.02.

 

[swampcrawler]

I have seen the art of te dynamic shotgun. Lots of good stuff there. I figured out the basics of keeping the gun fed (combat loading/slug changeover) from it. Unfortunately I let my gunsmith borrow the DVD and he ran away to Colorado with it.

 

[tomrkba]

The best way is a two day tactical shotgun class. Take a look at Tom Givens' classes. He make specific recommendations regarding what should be on the shotgun so you can build it up before class.

 

[LeonCarr]

The basics of shooting the tactical shotgun are shooting, moving, and reloading. You should be doing at least one of those at all times.

USPSA guy Michael Voigt once said that a shotgun is like a revolver. Once you start shooting it, it is already empty.

The beauty is that most of the reloading practice can be done with dummy rounds or snap caps at home, and you can use birdshot to practice the reloading and shooting live fire. Using the Magpul video (A very good one) as a guide, you can practice the loading techniques very cheaply.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[PBR Streetgang]

IMHO hunting with your shotgun will give you the basics of being a good shotgunner. Once you can react and hit moving target ,the rest of it is icing on the cake...........The recruits I taught in the police academy were adapt at handgun shooting but the hunters shined when it came to scattergun quals.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Yes, classes cost. But so does time, and ammo. And practice is still going to burn ammo - over the long run, far more than a class would, more than likely. In many cases it's cheaper in the long run to take the class. And a good class is going to significantly steepen the learning curve. There's nothing like having someone who knows their business observe what you are doing and help you sort out what can be done better/more effectively.

Far as I'm concerned, training where firearms are concerned implies an instructor.

Anything done alone is practice.

Other peoples' mileage may vary as far as those definitions are concerned, of course. Problem is, practice alone tends to make permanent - and not learning what to practice can lead to incorporating bad habits.

So, who to train with? There are a good many folks who can do a yeoman job of teaching basic fighting shotgun skills. And then there are the world class folks. If your safety habits are good and you have the basics of running the gun in hand pretty well, you're ready for a basic class from a world class instructor. Who might that be? In no particular order:

http://www.yfainc.com/schedule.html

http://www.guntactics.com/schedule.htm

http://www.rangemaster.com/

http://www.defense-training.com/schedule.html

There are others, but the folks listed above travel a good bit and have classes in various locations, which can help save expenses for students. And there are others who are that good also, some of whom teach in fixed locations. Since you didn't say where you are it's more difficult to recommend any of those...

 

[swampcrawler]

Funny thing is, The Art of the Dynamic Shotgun was filmed on my former boss' private range... 10 minutes from my house. No one invited me.

My location is near Baton Rouge Louisiana. And as soon as I can get myself back Into some turnaround work in the refineries I would lov to take a good class. One for handguns would be nice as well.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Of all the shotgun training videos I've studied the best I've come across is Shotgun CQB featuring C.J. Caracci. It doesn't dwell on "how to shoot a shotgun" but instead focuses on home defense shotgun fighting tactics and techniques. Approximately 90 minutes duration. Shotgun CQB featuring C.J. Caracci is included in the DVD CQB Clearing Tactics for First Responders, which can be ordered from Amazon.com or rented from Netflix.

For live fire training I save my used cardboard IPSC targets and use them later for shotgun training.

 

[bubba in ca]

I bought 5 of the best shotgun DVDs, watched them twice each and then sold them on Ebay for a tiny fraction of what I paid. The best of them are 10 percenters, grossly confusing tactical, police , and HD shotgun use with a big dollop of sales hype thrown in to strecht the tape longer.

Know your gun
Know your laws
Set your limits
Shoot the bad guy before he shoots you.

Tactical reloads are for selling books and DVDs. If you can not hit someboy in your hallway or climbing through your bedroom window with the first shot or 2, all the rest is theatre.

 

[Sapper_Daddy]

Scenario training will benefeit you the most and honestly keep you interested. Just setup some scenarios that you have heard of/thought of and go to town. I recommend a crawl, walk, RUN approach though set it up walk through it with no weapon, then with a dry weapon, then hit it hard with live rounds.

 

[kayak-man]

As far as what to train, I like to break this kind of stuff down into three things: Shooting - Reloading - clearing malfunctions*

Shooting:
Combative shotgunning is different than trap and skeet. I think there is a lot of value in trap and skeet, but you also want to practice getting multiple shots onto a single target. Its also a good idea to practice using slugs and knowing how to get good hits at distance.

Reloading: there are a lot of different ways to reload a shotgun, and I think there is value in exposing yourself to all of them. IMO, one of the big differences between a shotgun and a handgun or carbine is that with the pistol and AR/AK/FAL you have a constant in the form of a box magazine that you are putting in the gun. With shotguns, you usually are loading individual shells and there are a lot of options on how you carry them. Butt stock, side sadle, shell caddy, bandolear, belt, drop pouch... and the list goes on. As always, find what works for you. Personally, even though I use one of the cheap belts with a bunch of shells on it, I like to practice reloading loose shells from the pocket because I figure if I ever need the shotgun, and just grab it out of the gunsafe, or my buddies truck, or whatever, theres a good chance I'll be throwing a handful of shells into my pocket.

With shotguns, there is a gray area between shooting and reloading: The slug switchover, where you have a gun that is empty or loaded with shotshells, and you need to put a slug in the chamber RIGHT NOW. You should be able to find some youtube videos on it.

As far as clearing malfunctions, if I'm brutaly honest with myself, I'm not the guy to talk to about that, and its a part of my training that I've neglected.

DRILLS: I don't practice my shotgun skills as much as I should, but when I do, these are a couple of the drills that I like.

Flying V - Don't know where I saw this one, I think I just went down to an action bay at the range one time and the targets were arranged this way so I went with it. Set up five targets (Clay pidgeons won't work for this one very well) in a "V" pattern, and from a low ready, engage all targets. After the targets have been engaged, reload, and engage the targets in reverse order.
I've always used an asymmetrical set up, with the "V" pointing away from me, but changing it up every now and then is probably a good idea. You would also probably benefit by varrying the order you engage the targets: first couple go rounds, work from left to right to left, then nearest to farthest to nearest, etc. Do some where you start with the gun on a table next to you. Maybe start with an empty gun and for each target just load a single round directly into the chamber...

Slug Changeover drill: This drill was one we did at Chris Costa's shotgun class, and I really liked it. You have four targets, spread out maybe six feet apart, with the two outside ones maybe 20 feet away and the middle two back about 40-60 feet. Your gun is loaded with shotshells. At the buzzer, engage the targets from left to right, using shot on targets 1&4 and SLUGS ON TARGETS 2&3. Again, I'm a big fan of changing up starting positions and order of engagement.

Fighting back up: Another drill from Chris' class. Use a sillhoute target. Engage the target from standing, kneeling, prone, kneeling, and standing. reload as needed.

A quick note on training: Training is worth it. I know its expensive and a big time commitment, but a good trainer can help you make progress incredibly fast, and is truly worth the time and effort. From what you said about wanting to get better with your pistol and shotgun, I would recommend Chris Costa's shotgun class. Chris is a very good instructor, his classes are a VERY high round count, and his shotgun class is a one day handgun refresher followed by 2 days of shotgun work.

Sounds like you're on the right track.

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson


*Credit where credit is due: Got that breakdown from the GunfighterCast Podcast with Daniel Shaw

 

[Frank Ettin]

Yes, classes cost. But so does time, and ammo. And practice is still going to burn ammo - over the long run, far more than a class would, more than likely. In many cases it's cheaper in the long run to take the class. And a good class is going to significantly steepen the learning curve. There's nothing like having someone who knows their business observe what you are doing and help you sort out what can be done better/more effectively.

Far as I'm concerned, training where firearms are concerned implies an instructor.

Anything done alone is practice.

Other peoples' mileage may vary as far as those definitions are concerned, of course. Problem is, practice alone tends to make permanent - and not learning what to practice can lead to incorporating bad habits....

This, as far as I'm concerned, is the bottom line.

Professional training is about learning what and how to practice, and there no good substitute for a qualified instructor actually watching you and then coaching you based on what he sees.

If you really want to reach your potential and professional training is a financial stretch, start saving your money and look for ways to earn more -- so you'll be able to afford professional training.

 

[hso]

Classes are an investment that you benefit from your entire life.

A class costs a few hundred dollars, but over the next 20 years that is less than you'll drink in sodas. You'll benefit from that class from the day you take it forwards for the next 20 years. The sodas? Not so much.

INVEST in yourself by taking a class.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

I planning to take some classes but my teenage girl is keeping me pert near broke.

 

[gamestalker]

Something I've added to tactical training is shooting from the hip. I discovered that, at least for me, it came almost instinctively. But other than that, yes take a tactical class and then create some drills for yourself, so you can become proficient with what was taught.

GS

 

[breakingcontact]

I like to shoot my shotgun empty then drop it (on sling in front of me) and switch to pistol and finish targets.

 

[justice06rr]

In my experience, if you want more practical experience than just bench shooting at home or at a range, you need to try out an event like a 3-Gun. Many gun clubs offer them, just research your area.

For example, in the 3-gun course I took last year we had to practice shooting guns with your strong side and weak side. Loading and moving with your shotgun on your weak side is very different, and shooting will feel even more unnatural. But you will get used to it as you practice more often.

Shoot from cover, sitting, standing, and even prone. Practice loading your shotgun and get proficient with it, and always reload from cover while not sweeping yourself(foot) or others.

Hope that helps

 

[Bubba613]

Most training for shotgun is totally inapplicable to the private citizen in his home. There are no cases I am aware of where a homeowner ran a standard capacity shotgun dry. Thus reloading drills are pretty much a waste of time.
Figure out likely scenarios for your situation--shooting from behind cover, shooting while crouching, etc--and practice those. Work with the shotgun until its operation seems natural to you and you're fine.

 

[Deer_Freak]

To be ready for a self defense situation you have to be able to use the weapon. There is an inexpensive way to do just that. Go to a local skeet range. Mount the gun and shoot skeet just like everyone else until you get used to the safety rules and etiquette on a skeet field. All this forces you to handle the gun to the point that you can manipulate the safety without any thought. Tactical reloads are easy because you are loading your gun all the time.

Now that you are used to the skeet field and all the members have accepted you. You can start training yourself for hunting/self defense. Instead of mounting your gun leave it down with the safety engaged. Make your gun ready and mount it while the skeet is in flight. This forces you to shoot instinctively. It's not a mechanical thing like having your gun mounted and saying pull. Instinctive shooting is what will make you successful if you ever have to use that shotgun for real.

In a a few months to a year according to the speed you learn shooting you should be able to mount your gun and shoot doubles so fast people say you got lucky and got both birds with one shot. I do these drills when I shoot skeet. People that know me know I shot twice but to the uninitiated they think I am consistently shooting two birds with one shot. I use a Mossberg 500C (20 ga) when doing these drills. I did them with a 12 ga until I lost my health.

 

[Louca]

Lots of good replies here so far, especially if you want to train for combat shotgun situations. But for some reason, the post by Bubba613 seems like the best advice with respect to home defense.

But the OP said,

I want to start doing more to actually train with my weapons of choice ... I'm looking for suggestions on how to train to the best of my ability.

My reply to that would be you need to define exactly what you want to be "best" at, i.e. narrow it down. Do you want to win competitions? Do you want to be the best home defender? Do you want to be the fastest to first shot? The fastest loader? The most accurate? The most efficient? The most stable mentally?

Pick a specific goal - just one. Then work on that, grow, and have fun.

Lou

 

[JERRY]

since your shotgun will be used inside (God forbid) train to use cover, focused target area, and wait for the police to clean up anything if needed. if you want to increase your heart rate just do jumping jacks in place until you are truly winded, then start your course of fire.

a shotgun is not something you ccw. as a private citizen youre most likely to be in your home if and when a shotgun can be put into action. imagine your home, your safe room of sorts, the hallway you will cover from cover if that makes sense to you.... manual of arms is a must of course, but very little tactical stuff is needed or even done inside a home. do not try to clear your own home. that is a two man job at a minimum.

a good light on your shotgun and some confidence with its use is what you need.

 

[TacticsWithPractice]

I would say the ability to put a pattern of buckshot on an intended target, every time, without having to think about your line of sight compared to the weapon or lining up a bead one of the most important things if not the most, aside from safety of course, when using a shotgun. A advantage of a shotgun is narrowed from the speed of target acquisition and placement of effective force quickly as a constant.

At a close quarters engagement distance especially and out to id say 25 feet, one proficient with a shotgun should be able to engage a target and fire accurately in about the speed it takes to point your finger at a spot on the wall and snap your finger. You should not have to line up a shotgun bead in a self defense situation. Once at the ready, you should know exactly where your shot will land, every time all the time, through muscle memory. Once there, you can start to train yourself how to move without losing this connection to your weapon, including being in the prone position, rolling, strafing, etc.... Shotguns can be cumbersome, but really shine when they are fully controlled by their operator.