Bear Gulch
Member
Once you call them a suspect you must advise them of their rights. Person of interest means they hope that they will incriminate themselves.
How terrorists get guns
- Thread starter sheepdip
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madkiwi
Member
Screw the "alien ban" rule.
I am an alien. I have a C&R too. Most importantly, I have a green card. (I am also Christian, white, blue eyes, brown hair- traits that could land me on an undesireables list from the ACLU).
If someone is a suspected terrorist, then try them, get a conviction, and imprison them. Until then, they have the same civil rights as anyone else.
I am an alien. I have a C&R too. Most importantly, I have a green card. (I am also Christian, white, blue eyes, brown hair- traits that could land me on an undesireables list from the ACLU).
If someone is a suspected terrorist, then try them, get a conviction, and imprison them. Until then, they have the same civil rights as anyone else.
The anti-freedom left will now try to spin this report to get a law passed that bars anyone who is on one of these lists from purchasing or possesing a firearm, as they are now bared from travelling on an airliner. This seems to me to be an easy way to begin the total elimination of all constitutional rights. Next will be the first amendment (spreading terrorist propaganda), then the 4th, the 5th, etc. After all we must fight terrorism, right?
No one knows how you get on one of the "watch lists", who is on the "watch lists", or how you get off the "watch list", because all of that information is classified. Getting on one of these lists is not a matter of law, it is the 'policy' decision by as many as 12 different agencies.
Since this information is "classified" and a matter of administrative 'policy', think about the near future, when it is possible that President Hillary Clinton calls up FBI Director Shummer, and says "I have new guidlines for you about who to put on the watch list."
No one knows how you get on one of the "watch lists", who is on the "watch lists", or how you get off the "watch list", because all of that information is classified. Getting on one of these lists is not a matter of law, it is the 'policy' decision by as many as 12 different agencies.
Since this information is "classified" and a matter of administrative 'policy', think about the near future, when it is possible that President Hillary Clinton calls up FBI Director Shummer, and says "I have new guidlines for you about who to put on the watch list."
Exactly!! Anyone can end up on a list/database without knowing it, and thereafter be denied any number of Constitutional rights with no way to appeal. The possible consequences of this are obvious.
It is noteworthy that the Lefties and their media supporters can (and do) point to all kinds of things that MIGHT happen, but almost never to anything that HAS happened.
An excellent exmple of this is they're claims that "blood would run in the streets" if CCW laws were passed. This of course never happened, but the "for the children" crowd has never admitted it. Neither has the media.
It is noteworthy that the Lefties and their media supporters can (and do) point to all kinds of things that MIGHT happen, but almost never to anything that HAS happened.
An excellent exmple of this is they're claims that "blood would run in the streets" if CCW laws were passed. This of course never happened, but the "for the children" crowd has never admitted it. Neither has the media.
Could we flip the coin and look for the positives in this?
This shows that the current system works and that terrorist firearms purchses are actively being tracked. They were allowed to make the purchases because the information was being used by the LE/Intellegence/AntiTerror folks. They didn't stop the transactions because it could allow them to build a case to prosecute, if for nothing else, for the false statement on the yellow form.
This shows that the current system works and that terrorist firearms purchses are actively being tracked. They were allowed to make the purchases because the information was being used by the LE/Intellegence/AntiTerror folks. They didn't stop the transactions because it could allow them to build a case to prosecute, if for nothing else, for the false statement on the yellow form.
DelayedReaction
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I can't believe some members are supporting the denial of rights to ANY group of individuals. Being suspected of terrorism can result from something as simple as walking out of a store at the same time another suspect does so, or striking up a conversation on the bus!
Foreigners should have the same rights as natural-born citizens. Many came to this country to seek opportunity and freedom; denying them one of the fundamental Constitutional rights would fly in the face of everything they had worked for. We know that gun control is ineffective, so why support it in any format?
Foreigners should have the same rights as natural-born citizens. Many came to this country to seek opportunity and freedom; denying them one of the fundamental Constitutional rights would fly in the face of everything they had worked for. We know that gun control is ineffective, so why support it in any format?
enerum
Member
Frankly, I have no problem at all with a suspected terrorist buying a gun. Now, if a known terrorist buys a gun... well, I just hope the crowd he takes hostage includes a CCW holder... 
Alas, thinking ahead to the news teasers... we really need a "Weeps Bitterly" smiley on here, you know?
"Tonight at 5:00 - a deranged gun-carrying (guns are bad) citizen guns down an misunderstood (guns are bad) member of differing faith (who we believe really SHOULD hate us) that was trying to (guns are bad) ensure public transportation ran smoothly... all the way to the (guns are bad) bomb site"
Alas, thinking ahead to the news teasers... we really need a "Weeps Bitterly" smiley on here, you know?
"Tonight at 5:00 - a deranged gun-carrying (guns are bad) citizen guns down an misunderstood (guns are bad) member of differing faith (who we believe really SHOULD hate us) that was trying to (guns are bad) ensure public transportation ran smoothly... all the way to the (guns are bad) bomb site"
Aliens w/ weapons...
Amendment 9:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment 2:
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
------------------------------------
I disagree with disarming aliens of the right of self defense.
Look, the Bill of Rights does not grant any human, citizen or not, any rights. Let me rephrase that. Our foundational laws in the first nine amendments, the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, do not grant us ANY rights whatsoever. They merely recognize them as the rights of ANY man. This is why I posted Amendment 9 above. Basically this is saying what the Constitution states as rights shall not be construed by the .gov to say there are not other rights held by the People. Or these are also no neccessarily the only rights a human has. These are just the big ones and floated to the top.
All an oppressive party can do is SUPPRESS your rights. Free citizen or not. Technically the way our Constitution is written it recognizes these same rights to the third world Sudanese guy getting his head hacked off since converting from muslim to christian. It's just his rights as a human being are suppressed.
This is why there is a second amendment. It recognizes that every man has the right to defend himself. Even if that means overthrowing tyranny. It may not stop someone who opposes the the Constitution from oppressing you. In fact if they do not recognize the Constitution for what it is they most certainly will oppress you. The Bill of Rights just lets you sleep at night knowing because you stood up to tyranny, you did the right thing. Unfortunately I now understand there are far too many who would rather roll over and ignore the problem because it's more comfortable to. Come now. This country's inception started because a bunch of rowdys ILLEGALLY dumped a bunch of tea in the Boston Harbor. In this day they would be accused of theft or robbery, sedition, treachery, and above all terroristic activities. So yeah, Sam Adams, Washington, Hale, Rodgers. These guy were all insurgent terrorists. In the King's eyes anyway.
Now, you would not deny the right of an alien to speak his mind because he isn't a citizen would you? Then it's not logical to deny him the right to defend himself or his family. Hey ALL of us predominately come from alien heritage. And I'm also sure many of us have american indian blood in us too. You know those vicious, shrewd fighters that we pushed out? This reeks of calling the kettle black IMO.
Now I know, you'll say what about all those towelhead types? I say let them own guns. But as a precaution you ought to be armed yourself. And your family, and you should be well armed. That just adds to the whole dynamic. AND you should be meeting your neighbors, alien or not. Sit down and get to know them. Heck if they are one of the "Bad Guys" they are already going to illegally have guns anyway. You ought to be finding out who you can trust vs who to cap immediately if there ever is a STHF problem.
Let me pose this to you. What makes an American a true American? Some stupid piece of paper saying you are a citizen? You were free born here? Na, it's much simpler. It's a matter of heart. There are kids in other countries, who have seen "G.I. Joe" kicking butt, and graciously giving them handouts. And they think we're cool. I put this forth, these guys are more american than many leftists ever will be. And I'd rather hang out with the Mexican that understands and respects the rights of the common man versus hanging out with Hillary types, who themselves are self convicted traitors, since they swore to uphold the Constitution and do not. And this by the way is the same attitude that made this country what it is in the first place.
Amendment 9:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment 2:
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
------------------------------------
I disagree with disarming aliens of the right of self defense.
Look, the Bill of Rights does not grant any human, citizen or not, any rights. Let me rephrase that. Our foundational laws in the first nine amendments, the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, do not grant us ANY rights whatsoever. They merely recognize them as the rights of ANY man. This is why I posted Amendment 9 above. Basically this is saying what the Constitution states as rights shall not be construed by the .gov to say there are not other rights held by the People. Or these are also no neccessarily the only rights a human has. These are just the big ones and floated to the top.
All an oppressive party can do is SUPPRESS your rights. Free citizen or not. Technically the way our Constitution is written it recognizes these same rights to the third world Sudanese guy getting his head hacked off since converting from muslim to christian. It's just his rights as a human being are suppressed.
This is why there is a second amendment. It recognizes that every man has the right to defend himself. Even if that means overthrowing tyranny. It may not stop someone who opposes the the Constitution from oppressing you. In fact if they do not recognize the Constitution for what it is they most certainly will oppress you. The Bill of Rights just lets you sleep at night knowing because you stood up to tyranny, you did the right thing. Unfortunately I now understand there are far too many who would rather roll over and ignore the problem because it's more comfortable to. Come now. This country's inception started because a bunch of rowdys ILLEGALLY dumped a bunch of tea in the Boston Harbor. In this day they would be accused of theft or robbery, sedition, treachery, and above all terroristic activities. So yeah, Sam Adams, Washington, Hale, Rodgers. These guy were all insurgent terrorists. In the King's eyes anyway.
Now, you would not deny the right of an alien to speak his mind because he isn't a citizen would you? Then it's not logical to deny him the right to defend himself or his family. Hey ALL of us predominately come from alien heritage. And I'm also sure many of us have american indian blood in us too. You know those vicious, shrewd fighters that we pushed out? This reeks of calling the kettle black IMO.
Now I know, you'll say what about all those towelhead types? I say let them own guns. But as a precaution you ought to be armed yourself. And your family, and you should be well armed. That just adds to the whole dynamic. AND you should be meeting your neighbors, alien or not. Sit down and get to know them. Heck if they are one of the "Bad Guys" they are already going to illegally have guns anyway. You ought to be finding out who you can trust vs who to cap immediately if there ever is a STHF problem.
Let me pose this to you. What makes an American a true American? Some stupid piece of paper saying you are a citizen? You were free born here? Na, it's much simpler. It's a matter of heart. There are kids in other countries, who have seen "G.I. Joe" kicking butt, and graciously giving them handouts. And they think we're cool. I put this forth, these guys are more american than many leftists ever will be. And I'd rather hang out with the Mexican that understands and respects the rights of the common man versus hanging out with Hillary types, who themselves are self convicted traitors, since they swore to uphold the Constitution and do not. And this by the way is the same attitude that made this country what it is in the first place.
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