How to deal with an armed robbery.

[Blue Jays]

"…Remember, I'm parked out at the end of the parking lot. Does the guy appear out of thin air next to my car? How is he close enough to ambush me coming out of my car but far enough away that I don't notice him randomly loitering in the parking lot?…"

Totally agree. I scan and evaluate the parking lot while analyzing to select the ideal spot during errands.
Does the remote section of the lot contain enormous bushes/hedges/trees? Easy, opt for a different area!

Another great benefit of parking a distance from the store is how easily and efficiently people get evaluated. I know for darn sure someone approaching me (whether directly or rather circuitously) does NOT have my best interests in mind. That helpful expanse of asphalt means they need to be as fast and quiet as Usain Bolt in a pair of moccasins (if on foot) or they need to be zooming through parking at a high rate of speed (if in a car).

Either way…that will alert the "radar" of virtually anyone.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

The answer to this question is going to be different for everyone.

For me and my wife (we have no kids) its pretty simple.

Situational awareness is paramount. Parking away from other cars also important.

If somehow both of those precautions fail and some hooligan gets the drop on you then you either stand your ground or not.

I won't get into the specifics of that because its prime for tit for tat responses and I don't feel like dealing with that.

I will say that you only embolden any punk thats trying to get you to give up something when you do just that.

 

[Bazoo]

Deleted

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

*sigh*

So much movie drama still.

The focus is first avoidance. Be observant, recognize signs, maneuver and control events to avoid a deadly encounter.

If an encounter becomes unavoidable, the focus shifts to surviving that encounter.

The means of survival, and how effective those means may be, depends on many factors.

There is an adage which says "when all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail".

I can solve a great many things with a hammer...but there's a reason why my toolbox is loaded with many other tools. Not the least of which is the fact that it's pretty difficult to explain to my wife why the loose door hinges now look like they're beat to a pulp.

Deadly force, and the varied means to employ it, aren't the only tools we have, and a firearm is not the only tool we have.

If it is, then we're both under armed AND predisposing ourselves to the paradigm that the one hammer we have is the ONLY solution available.


To put it another way, a hammer is an awesome tool...but if we don't control the scenario in which it is used, it's effectiveness drops. If I'm nailing something or removing nails from something, the object needs to be controlled/clamped/supported/emplaced. Otherwise I'll likely not get the results I want. I'll damaged the wood, injure myself, break something nearby, or worse.

My firearm is a TOOL. But it's not the only tool at my disposal, and may not be the first, or the best, tool I need to use. If I should actually need to use it, I need to figure out how to get it and effectively use it.

All in order to SURVIVE.

Not to mag dump. Not to eliminate scum. Not for any other purpose except to survive.

 

[The Night Rider]

Distance = Time

Time = options

 

[Officers'Wife]

What the Chief said! I will add what my Dad told me years ago... The successful fight is the one you managed to avoid. To that end there are a number of strategies. Trying to say which one to use closes the door to the tactic that might work better under the circumstance.

 

[Kleanbore]

Distance = Time

Time = Exposure.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Time = Exposure.

If you insist on formulas... Mindset + clarity of thought + training = survival.

 

[Kleanbore]

If you insist on formulas... Mindset + clarity of thought + training = survival.

That leaves out several important variables.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

That leaves out several important variables.

Oh, PLEASE don't get the nuclear engineer started on equations!

I'll be tempted to write one with all kinds of probability factors...

 

[The Night Rider]

Time = Exposure.

You're exposed anyway.

It's still a Transitional Space no matter where you park.

You prioritize getting out of the transitional space as fast as you can.

I prioritize being able to see trouble coming. It is what it is.

Have you ever actually had to deal with a criminal assailant?

 

[Kleanbore]

You're exposed anyway.

In any conflict situation--air combat, close air support, avoiding air attack, taking a beach, getting behind cover, keeping the car-jacker out of the car-- the time of exposure is critical.

You prioritize getting out of the transitional space as fast as you can.

That is a very basic tenet of risk management, and of tactics for avoiding getting mugged, shot, stabbed, or blown up.

Have you ever actually had to deal with a criminal assailant?

Yes--on more than one occasion.

 

[The Night Rider]

In any conflict situation--air combat, close air support, avoiding air attack, taking a beach, getting behind cover, keeping the car-jacker out of the car-- the time of exposure is critical.

That is a very basic tenet of risk management, and of tactics for avoiding getting mugged, shot, stabbed, or blown up.

Yes--on more than one occasion.

Well, I'm going to say it again Bro, I prioritize space (equals time & time equals options/freedom of movement) over minimizing exposure because my prior experience has shown me the easiest way to end a criminal assault is to make it clear that you're aware of the criminal's presence and intent. In my experience that has had an almost 100% success rate.

Really, in this specific scenario my success rate is 100% because I've never had a Crackhead walk across a parking lot to approach my car.

It's also worth mentioning that as a retiree I'm not out running the streets after dark.

YMMV

 

[Kleanbore]

I prioritize space (equals time & time equals options/freedom of movement) over minimizing exposure because my prior experience has shown me the easiest way to end a criminal assault is to make it clear that you're aware of the criminal's presence and intent.

That can prevent an intended attack, but avoidance is a much better strategy, and minimizing exposure supports avoidance.

I do not want to be involved in an "interview" situation. I want the potential threat to have little time to size me up and consider his options.

Really, in this specific scenario my success rate is 100% because I've never had a Crackhead walk across a parking lot to approach my car.

I was thinking of the ones who drive to the victim.

Remember, not all car-jackers come to you on foot.

 

[The Night Rider]

I was thinking of the ones who drive to the victim.

Remember, not all car-jackers come to you on foot.

I'm sorry but I just can't fathom somebody driving at me that fast across the parking lot without me noticing it.

I'm also not one of those people who sits in my car. As soon as I'm in the car the doors are locked. When I park I pull the key out of the ignition and get out of the car. I don't take my time because I know that is the point of most vulnerability.

 

[Bazoo]

I always remove the keys even at the gas station and such, because too many folks have had cars stolen with babies still onboard.

 

[Kleanbore]

'm sorry but I just can't fathom somebody driving at me that fast across the parking lot without me noticing it.

Already discussed in Post #33. I would expect to notice it. What would I do about it?

I'm also not one of those people who sits in my car. As soon as I'm in the car the doors are locked. When I park I pull the key out of the ignition and get out of the car.

Sure. And the less time you are out in the lot, the less vulnerable you are to being attacked.

I recommend parking close to the entrance, but not near a tall van or a building corner, or in back of the store. People like Ayoob say to not park near the edge of lot, for obvious reasons.

I do not park near groups of people standing around, either

As I recall, these scenarios were discussed on the old Personal Defense TV series.

 

[chicharrones]

I always remove the keys even at the gas station and such, because too many folks have had cars stolen with babies still onboard.

Yep. My normal gas station routine is to park at the pumps in front of the cashier. Get out with keys and phone. Lock the car. Put the pump handle on "auto- fill", and walk around the car checking tires, body panels, etc. while really watching my surroundings.

 

[Blue Jays]

"…I recommend parking close to the entrance, but not near a tall van…"

"…I do not park near groups of people standing around, either…"

Both of these situations can easily arise while one is innocently inside the shopping center.
Undoubtedly this much more likely to happen if one insists upon parking proximal to storefronts.

• That unmarked tall van now parked directly next to you at the CLOSE parking spot? Could be anything.
• That big group of men standing near your car? Could be bunch of friends who left adjacent restaurant.

By opting to park solo and much further out in the lot you can almost certainly eliminate those possibilities.

For the sake of discussion, if parked way out in "Siberia" and you DO see an unmarked tall van next to your vehicle, you have likely seen it before they see you. It is also genuinely weird and absolutely suspicious behavior. Now you get to make decisions from 100 yards away.

That is where the benefits of time + distance create more options.

 

[Kleanbore]

Both of these situations can easily arise while one is innocently inside the shopping center.

Certainly.

That unmarked tall van now parked directly next to you at the CLOSE parking spot? Could be anything.

The question is not what the van may be, but whether it may conceal someone planning an ambush. That is the case whether I park near it or walk near it. from some distance away

By opting to park solo and much further out in the lot you can almost certainly eliminate those possibilities.

I have no way to "eliminate those possibilities".

Now you get to make decisions from 100 yards away.

I have only three decisions to make: whether to stop there at all, where to park, and whether to get out of the car. Leaving the store, I have to decide whether to stay in inside or to head to my car. A one hundred yard distance would not aid that decision, one bit, and in no case would I opt for a one hundred yard walk to or from the car.

I had occasion once to leave a train station after a right after newly-released prisoner had been picked up by friends. When I left the station, my li mp from a case of plantar fasciitis attracted the attention of the group. They quickly spread out among the cars in the parking lot to wait for me. My permit for parking at the door spoiled their plans

 

[aaaaa]

Certainly.
The question is not what the van may be, but whether it may conceal someone planning an ambush. That is the case whether I park near it or walk near it. from some distance away

The other thing about the van is that if someone wants to kidnap a good looking woman, it would be pretty easy to toss her in the van and take off. Who would notice. Especially if the van side door is where the woman is loading the baby or groceries into the car. Warn your wives and daughters not to park by vans and if one is next to them after shopping, wait a while or get help, maybe give a big kid working cart retrieval a couple bucks tip to walk her to the car.

 

[WrongHanded]

Just my two cents, and I didn't read everything.

If I'm parking at large store where the spaces are set so you can pull through, I park in the isles in front of the store entrance, but down towards the far end. I'm almost ensure a pull through spot, so if I see someone approaching, I can simply drive forwards. It also means people coming out of the store are looking in my direction. More visibly often means less opportunity for criminals who care to avoid getting caught.

Watch who's around as you pull up, and pull into a spot. If you see something you don't like make a circuit. If someone is watching you, it should be easier to notice this way. If someone is closing in as you park, drive away. If not, get out quickly and establish a visual perimeter for your family. Don't sit in the vehicle, where you can't maneuver and are a sitting target. Make eye contact with anyone coming your way once you get out, so THEY know that YOU see them.

That's all I've got.

 

[Bazoo]

The wife might say, “park over there next to that van, it’s close, I don’t want to walk”. Then you choose between the van as a possible threat and having a half hour discussion on making parking choices based on as she puts it “a 1:1,000,000 chance”. “ I just want to go in and get my groceries, not have a tactical parking spot lesson.” Okay so maybe my wife ain’t that bad. But you get the point.

Sometimes you park where there’s a spot.

 

[Blue Jays]

"…Sometimes you park where there’s a spot…"

You commenced this thread yet it seems the official Bazoo family parking policy has thankfully been established during the interim. Keep us posted should anything change related to the robberies/carjackings noted in your area and how she feels towards somewhat adjusting strategies and tactics.

 

[The Night Rider]

I recommend parking close to the entrance, but not near a tall van or a building corner, or in back of the store. People like Ayoob say to not park near the edge of lot, for obvious reasons.

Duly noted.