Thoughts on carrying a fake wallet...

[ShooterMcGavin]

I carry a fake wallet and, like my CCW, I do not tell people. I don't tell people because they would probably think it's ridiculous. My Mom thought I carry too much stuff, until I explained that different circumstances require different measures (i.e. a gun and pepper spray).

My fake wallet contains 5 plastic credit-card-like cards, one which looks like an ID (with ONLY my picture and full name on it). My fake also carries a $5 bill. The $6 wallet is thin, about 1/4 inch thick with everything in it. I carry the fake in a place close to my CCW so that I can decide at the last minute whether to present the wallet or the muzzle.

I carry a fake wallet for a couple reasons....
1. If the threat to me is not lethal, or I feel the guy is in a major hurry to get out of the area before harming me/others, then I might just toss the guy my fake and hope to be done with it. Not a huge loss of money OR personal information. This may be my best option if I am with loved ones who are not as quick to escape an attacker as myself.

2. If someone gets the jump on me with a gun/knife/etc., reaching for a fake wallet will at least give me time to think. Depending on the attacker's attention, it might still the best idea to toss the fake wallet as a diversion, before planning to draw.

Other thoughts...
While I am reaching for the fake wallet, I hope to be considering several questions: How real is the threat? (i.e. Is the hammer cocked?) Forget about asking yourself if the safety is off or if the gun is loaded. Those are hard to determine and survival dictates that the answer must be "yes". Can I distract the guy long enough to draw and place a disabling shot? Is the robber affected by drugs/alcohol, which might slow his reaction time to my draw, or even slow his pain or the realization of being shot?
Drawing... (I carry in an IWB Kydex or a leather shoulder holster)
-Kydex holsters make a noise that might be well known to the assailant. Even with a leather holster, the subtle noise means the perp's attention will quickly be directed back towards you, if you have managed to redirect their focus.
-Drawing from a shoulder holster is pretty quick and easy (relatively). If you can keep it totally discrete, it is probably best to unsnap the retention while reaching for the fake wallet on the inside pocket (while tossing the wallet).
-The shirt will need to be cleared from an IWB holster, so this might best be done when reaching for the wallet. Reaching both arms around to the same side of your body, and pulling your shirt high as you would normally clear your shirt, may be a clear tell that you are reaching for a weapon. Perhaps reaching each arm to its side of the waist, one at a time, would be a motion that does not scream "I'm drawing now"?

These are just some of my thoughts, out loud. My final thoughts are this: If confronted by a mugger who has a gun pointed at you, you are already behind the 8 ball. It might be impossible to draw and fire. A fake wallet is a good diversion and might be an acceptible appeasement.

What do you carry for a fake wallet?? What are your thoughts on this??

 

[Froggy]

I don't carry a "drop wallet" now, but I am collecting up the expired store cards and other junk to put in it.

I've thought that carrying the drop wallet on the side opposite the CCW is a better approach.

I see your point about having them same side allows a very last moment decision about which to pull. But your mugger is probably watching you draw, expecting a wallet perhaps, but his attention will be on the hand that is moving. If you try to distract with the wallet and then draw you have one arm making two motions -- time consuming and attention grabbing. Carrying off-side allows you to use the wallet to draw his attention away from what your gun hand is doing.

 

[Mumwaldee]

I thought about this for some time just last week. To be honest, I think it's a waste of your time.

BG will still want your watch/jewelry/sneakers...so you'd have to change everything.

My second thought was you may get shot because the BG didn't think you'd provided him enough loot for his effort.

And lastly, I thought why the hell should I be changing my lifestyle based on BGs...shouldn't he be watching his step in case he runs into a non-victim?

 

[dralarms]

Anytime I go out of town I carry a throw down wallet, very little in the way of Id and only a couple of small bills. The difference is when I'm carrying it I carry it in the place of my regular wallet and place my reg wallet in my front pocket, that way I don't have to think about it and just give them the wallet I would normally reach for. If mine or someones elses life is NOT in danger then the perp can have what's in the wallet. but if there is a chance something is going down I'll fumble the wallet and while everyone is distracted I'll pull my ccw if I can.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

But your mugger is probably watching you draw, expecting a wallet perhaps, but his attention will be on the hand that is moving. If you try to distract with the wallet and then draw you have one arm making two motions -- time consuming and attention grabbing.

I would not draw while the mugger has his eyes on me. Causing enough distration to draw a gun means causing the perp's eyes to leave my general direction. Moving one hand or the other, as the mugger watches me, is not enough of a distraction for me to reliably draw, point, and shoot. If I can cause his attention to wander (eyes away from me) at the same time my hand is reaching for my wallet, my CCW is close by, and I can make that decision quickly. If he remains focused on me, I can throw the wallet at his feet (in a narrow space) or toss it to the side, opposite the CCW. Either way, I now have the mugger moving his eyes and body to the wallet. His eyes are now not on me, and it might be natural for me to fix my shirt since it was just lifted getting my wallet. That is another point when I could draw.

BG will still want your watch/jewelry/sneakers...so you'd have to change everything.

BUT, the BG will not have your home address!!! He also might not get your SS# or other ID-theft info.

And lastly, I thought why the hell should I be changing my lifestyle based on BGs...

Do you carry a gun, lock your doors, or avoid bad parts of a city at night? Maybe your lifestyle is already partly changed because of BGs?

 

[Mumwaldee]

I can see your point of risking your personal info, but most people seem to want to offer a fake in order to buy time to draw their ccw or they are hoping he takes the fake and runs like hell.

As for hoping he will run...I would not take that chance. I can toss my real wallet over his head or simply offer the cash. There are a million different scenarios and a million different outcomes. If it makes you feel better then do it, but to me it seems like wasted energy.

As for BGs affecting my lifestyle...of course I take common sense precautions. Even "good" men can be tempted. I just don't think the "lizard dropping its tail" method works for me.

I can toss my real wallet over the BG's head and then if I draw and fire I'll be able to tell the police he had my stuff and my info. I'm not too sure how a jury would respond to "I shot a BG holding a fake wallet I carried just for this possibility."

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

I have a fake wallet

I figure that since every so many years you buy a new wallet and you get expired cards that you're going to get rid off, why not? I have an old wallet, with an expired ATM card, expired CompUSA card, fake plastic credit card that comes in the mail (if a robber pulled it out and asked me what that is I'd say I use it to card doors, but it looks quite real when sitting inside the fake wallet), Wal-Mart Shopping card, and card to make copies. There's seven $1 bills inside. I carry it in my back pocket.

This is the main reason I carry it: I figure if someone's going to rob me, all I'd loose is $7, since everything else in the fake wallet would have been thrown out anyway. I figure that loosing $7 is cheaper than all the attorney fees I'd be paying if I had to speak with one before talking to the police to explain why I just shot someone.

Second: I figure that I don't carry much cash in my real wallet anyway and that I could just cancel my credit cards right away, but it would be more of a hassle loosing the real wallet than the fake wallet. I'd have to go through the process to get a new driver's license, social security card, medical cards, apply for new concealed permit, get new credit cards, the list goes on. I'd have to worry about the criminal having my home address, SS#, and a lot of other information he shouldn't know.

BG will still want your watch/jewelry/sneakers...so you'd have to change everything.

That depends on what strategy you use. When I first learned about fake wallets, I learned that whether you have a fake or real wallet you should open your wallet and be like "This is all the money I've got." Then toss it to the robber's gun side and a little in back of the robber. When the robber turns to pick up the wallet, start running in the opposite direction and partially diagonal. When you've gained several steps start shouting "Police! Police!" Most robbers are going to go after the wallet, not the person attracting all sorts of attention to themselves. If they shoot at you, you would have been shot at anyway, but now they're going to have more difficulty in shooting a fast moving target. Most of the time when someone runs from a person with a gun and they're both not isolated from civilization, usually the runner won't be shot at. If he is shot at, usually he isn't hit. If he's hit, usually he doesn't die. (http://www.udap.com/street.htm The article on fake wallets is 3/4 of the way down on the page) I figure if one follows this strategy, you probably will only lose your fake wallet, not your shoes, socks, cell phone, etc. I've heard of actual stories where people have thrown their wallet on the ground a little behind the robber and it actually worked. My dad has a friend who was robbed and beat up badly, all they left him was his medical card, how thoughtful of them After that he started carrying around a fake wallet and a gun.

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

The only drawback I can see from a fake wallet is before I got a fake wallet I was in a bad car accident. I was knocked unconscious and they used the jaws of life to take me out. I drifted back between consciousness and unconsciousness. The paramedics used those shears to cut off all my clothes. I think someone probably checked my wallet to see if my driver's license was in it. I was in one of my parents' cars and they had both the expired insurance papers and new insurance papers in the glove department. My parents had to fight the police in convincing them that they had the new insurance papers also in the glovebox, because all they bothered to look at were the expired ones. If I had my fake wallet in my back pocket and real one in my front at the time, would they have said, "Hmmm, this guy was driving without a license. That will be a ticket"? Does anyone know how police and paramedics work when you're knocked unconscious in a car accident?

 

[brickeyee]

"My fake also carries a $5 bill. "

You might need a few more $$ to make a felony case for armed robbery.
Virginia is pretty low, but it still needs to be more than $5 to get a felony.

 

[thexrayboy]

In most if not all states the amount of money/value of property taken is not
a factor in a felony robbery. The act of forcible robbery...either strongarm or with a weapon constitutes a felony no matter what the gain the robber recieves. In a simple theft the value of the money or items stolen can determine depending on statute whether the theft was a misdeameanor or a felony. Two different types of crimes. Armed robbery is armed robbery no matter whether the miscreant gets 1 penny or a thousand in cash. The felony charge is and should be the same. Most BG's no this and so the amount of money they recieve becomes a minor issue to them in their determination of whether to eliminate the witness to the felony.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Each time this subject comes up here (and it comes up often) I notice two consistently unresolved and unaddressed problems, both arising from the same "tactic" - distracting the mugger.

The little problems with each "distracting the mugger" tactic I've encountered are:

• The scenarios nearly universally envision the same interaction - one VCA, who will give the victim both the time, and the ability to perform some cute trick.
  
• That the cute trick (in whatever fashion is takes) won't be recognized by the VCA loooong before the victim implements the trick for what it is. In its essence -a failure to respect the VCA.

Lots of folks have already decided what the attack will look like in their minds, and plan for that attack. Usually life doesn't follow script.

The mugging you experience probably isn't the VCA's first attempt at it. Failure to render him respect (more likely him and the other members of his crew) in his proficiency as a skilled criminal by pulling some cute little trick stunt WILL move him from instrumental violence into expressive violence. The first is easier to resolve; its simply business. The second is much harder to buy out from under; its become personal.

We see it happen all the time in FoF, even to our law abiding and well natured Role Players.


I chose to carry a money clip, with my actual money and actual credit cards, and keep my ID and other items in my wallet. So, if I decide its in my best interests to give up my money, I don't need to worry about anyone getting my personal items in the process . . . the things I might actually decide are worth fighting over.

 

[Elmer Fudd]

If carrying overseas you might want to carry a fake wallet to decoy a pickpocket. While on a month long Europe trip with the wife I carried a pouch inside the waistband of my pants hanging from the belt, containing our money, credit cards, and passports. My fake wallet was in the front pocket with my hand on it in crowds. Sure enough, outside a London hotel, a guy shook some car keys in my face and babbled some story. Like an idiot, I was confused and suckered in. My wife, a few steps away, was much more aware. She saw the guy touch my pockets with the non-key hand, and eyeballed another guy walking toward me who was probably the guy who was actually going to lift it. He veered away when she made eye contact with him. I didn't lose anything, because of an alert wife and because I had a system that did not depend on complete situational awareness at all times. My mom had her wallet stolen from her in a French train station when she was jostled in a crowd. By the time she got off the train a couple hours later and called it in, they had already run the card up.

In terms of an armed robbery, don't screw around over a few bucks and a DL. Give it to the guy. I want him to be a happy meth-head as he runs away, thinking about nothing but his next hit. Unless you are at the skill level of Vincent in 'Collateral,' don't try to outdraw someone with a gun on you. That seems like a dumb strategy to me. If you get a clean opening that is something else.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

You all have good points. Don't get me wrong. I am NOT relying on my fake wallet or ability to distract someone to give me the upper hand. However, I am saying that the mugger getting distracted is possible, and I want to be able to take advantage of that unlikely event.

GWQ, I like some of your points.

 

[obxned]

I already have enough stuff in my pockets.

 

[kimsonvu]

This is the first time i have ever seen a fake wallet in pocket.....

 

[inkhead]

That's good. I've used a fake one to laugh off a mugging in Los Angeles. However I recommend putting more than $5 in there. An Angry mugger who might do you harm will leave a lot quicker if he feels like robbing you was worth it. Realize that robbing someone with a weapon will easily get you 10 YEARS in jail, so for $5 a robber might want to take you prisoner, so you his anger at being "screwed" or continue his robbing of you at a later date, or cause more trouble.

Just put at least $50 to be safe. I keep two 20s, one 5, 5 ones. Which looks like a decent amount of cash for a 10 second robber.

 

[inkhead]

FYI if your carrying a fake wallet, i would never EVER recommend carrying a real one. When I was mugged by a violent methhead (he started by asking me if i wanted to buy meth) he made me turn my pockets inside out.

Even cops I know who are off duty in LA and have been robbed turn over wallet or money, because it's just not worth it. $40 is a small price to pay, especially to a mentally unstable person who needs medical help (addiction) and has a weapon.

 

[Kentak]

I think it borders on paranoia. The chances of getting robbed/mugged are so remote that you might as well give them the real wallet. I suppose if your lifestyle forces you to hang out in places where muggings are frequent, it might be a reasonable precaution. But then, I guess I'd be walking with my hand in my pocket--on the grip of my pistol, not on a fake wallet.

K

 

[.cheese.]

I think it's a sound idea. I've thought about it, but I figured it wasn't worth the extra trouble.

I already carry two wallets (kinda). One is my regular wallet, and the other in a mini-wallet that doesn't fold, and it carries my CWP as the ID and my range ID card along with a few other related cards (Bass Pro card, etc.). I have that second one because I ran out of room for cards in my regular wallet. So I divided them into "shooting and sports" and "everything else" and put all the "shooting and sports" cards in the separate wallet.

To have a throw away wallet would get confusing as I'd then have 3 wallets every day.

I figure my Glock 27 and pepper spray are my protection, and I'll leave it at that.

 

[LAK]

Good idea - except that I would not leave what may turn out to be a very frustrated thug with an actual picture of me and my full name. Have someone photoshop the picture so that at a glance there is a resemblence only - and change the name to something else.

 

[Daps]

I thought about the throw down/ fake wallet at one time but figured what was the point. I would think it's been on enough TV shows that a BG would know this tactic.

He picks it up and sees fake stuff or $5 he might shoot you for having so little or you toss it down and he think this MF'r trying the ole throw down wallet bit and caps you.

Another worse case, what if you throw down the wallet to the side and and the BG tells you MF'r pick that wallet up and toss it to me.

I don't know I just don't think some of these criminals are as dumb as we'd like to think they are, excluding the crack heads and even then they may be twitching with a a finger on the trigger.

I guess if I was going to try to toss my wallet, Id probably try to sling it towards his face hoping his auto reflex to move from getting hit in the face kicks in while I was moving off line, drawing and praying for the best

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

He picks it up and sees fake stuff or $5 he might shoot you for having so little or you toss it down and he think this MF'r trying the ole throw down wallet bit and caps you.

Although it's a fake wallet, all its components are real. The wallet that you use is a real wallet; an old one that you were going to throw out anyway. The cards inside are real cards, just expired. I wouldn't put an expired driver's license in it, just ATM cards, etc. I also put in a Wal-Mart gift card that's all out (he can't figure that out unless he tries it at Wal-Mart) and a copy card from a copy center. These are valid things people put in their wallets. The money inside is not fake money, anyone could look inside and see that. If you put in a sizable wad of $1 bills in it, it's cheaper than loosing your real wallet or paying attorney fees if you have to go to court because of a shooting. You don't have to pay money to renew your driver's license and concealed permit, or hurt your credit because you cancel live credit cards. The dummy wallet I have is so thin it's not a problem, but has plenty of "real" stuff in it to make it look like a valid wallet to anyone. If I wasn't able to toss it and was stuck, it would still look like a real wallet.

Another worse case, what if you throw down the wallet to the side and and the BG tells you MF'r pick that wallet up and toss it to me.

I've heard of quite a few andedotal stories where people didn't have a fake wallet but a real wallet and tossed it on the ground in the opposite direction he was facing and then ran in the opposite shouting to attract attention to themselves and it worked. The longer you stay there with him, the higher your chances are of getting shot. It's best to make it as brief as possible. The armed robber will want to go after the wallet instead of the running person who's attracting attention to themselves. If not, you would have been shot anyway.

I guess if I was going to try to toss my wallet, Id probably try to sling it towards his face hoping his auto reflex to move from getting hit in the face kicks in while I was moving off line, drawing and praying for the best

I've heard this debate among those who anecdotal dummy wallets or tossing a real one. Although I haven't heard of research that backs that this is more likely, but many believe that if you toss it on the ground next the robber and a little in back of him, there's less chance of the gunman getting startled and shooting compared to if you chuck it right into his face.

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

The way I heard to do it isn't to put a $5 bill plus two $10s, one $20 bill, etc, but to put a sizable wad of $1 bills. This makes it appear that there's more money in it than there really is. If you use the "toss the wallet" technique where you open the wallet and say "This is all the money I've got" and then toss it, you probably won't have time to show him that one of the bills is a $10, $20, $5. That's just one of my thoughts on all of this. If you can't just toss it and run away and he goes through it, a lot of people actually will often just have a sizable wad of $1's in their real wallet at any point of time.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Misdirection works. There was a pretty funny story a while back about someone attempting to rob a magician (I think it might have been David Copperfield) and he made it look like all of his pockets were empty.

(Washington Post Article)

Now I'm no David Copperfield but what I fear far more than a crook stealing $20-40 bucks from me is them getting my personal info. So my fake wallet has a "reasonable" amount of cash in small bills and some simulated cards to add to the realism effect, but has no PII in it at all.

If I have to give up the $ and I can walk away.. Meh, so be it. If it provides a distraction to an armed holdup, so much the better. On the whole I like that it gives me at least a few more options.

 

[brickeyee]

In Virginia if you use force to steal the item it is a felony under the robbery statute, but in many cases it can be difficult to prove the felony robbery rules of force (unless you want to at least get chocked or slugged).
The charge then devolves to larceny, and the value taken is one thing that can move the charge from petit larceny ( misdemeanor) to grand larceny (a felony).

§ 18.2-96. Petit larceny defined; how punished.
Any person who:
1. Commits larceny from the person of another of money or other thing of value of less than $5, or
2. Commits simple larceny not from the person of another of goods and chattels of the value of less than $200, except as provided in subdivision (iii) of § 18.2-95, shall be deemed guilty of petit larceny, which shall be punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor.

§ 18.2-95. Grand larceny defined; how punished.
Any person who (i) commits larceny from the person of another of money or other thing of value of $5 or more, (ii) commits simple larceny not from the person of another of goods and chattels of the value of $200 or more, or (iii) commits simple larceny not from the person of another of any firearm, regardless of the firearm's value, shall be guilty of grand larceny, punishable by imprisonment in a state correctional facility for not less than one nor more than twenty years or, in the discretion of the jury or court trying the case without a jury, be confined in jail for a period not exceeding twelve months or fined not more than $2,500, either or both.