How to stop a big animal (bear or moose)?

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Chris in Idaho

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I'm not trying to create another "is .357 enough to stop a bear" thread, I'm asking what you do when you're out in the woods with whatever gun you have and said bear or moose charges. I say bear or moose because here in North Idaho grizzly, moose, and tweaker-muggers are the most dangerous things you'll find outdoors. I learned how to stop tweaker-muggers at Front Sight, now how do I stop a bear or moose?

From what I've read, combinations that may be usefull in hunting and may KILL a bear or moose just fine by bleeding it out or stopping its vitals will not stop it quickly enough for you to stay alive. So how do you STOP a bear or moose?

Basically I'm asking about shot placement. As I understand you have to hit the brain or spine. A bear's skull is just about bullet proof from the front and there's a lot of bear in front of the spine, and I don't really know anything about moose. How do you do it?
 
Front shoulder on a bear. Mobility kill. For a moose just run around a tree in circles. Their turn radius sucks.

I usually just make a lot of noise and hope I don't see a bear. It has worked so far. For moose I have been up close to a few, I just moved away slowly and so far they did the same.
 
I usually just make a lot of noise and hope I don't see a bear.
Click to expand...

That works unless you're hunting deer or something.

Well, maybe in AK you have so many deer that you see them anyway.:)

A bear's skull is just about bullet proof from the front
Click to expand...

Solids. Very hard alloy LSWC bullets to punch holes, or copper solids.

No hollowpoints, no copper jackets over soft lead.

"Bullet proof" can depend on the type of bullet.

There's always Black Tip .30-06.:D
 
I would say aim for the eyes. Also, when it opens its mouth, I would aim there. Good luck with that though.

Hope you don't ever have to try.
 
get a nice slug gun and make it rain........

Seriously though I would go to the range and practice some rapid fire on a target of bear/moose size and see what you can do. By the time you get your sights lined up for that perfect shoulder/head shot, you'll probably be lunch.
 
This has been my dilemma lately when hunting in areas where possibly danhgerous animals such as mountain lion and black bear (SoCal) are known to be and where there is the chance of still encountering dangerous humans.

Of course I could go the .454Casull and above route but those guns are quite heavy and not exactly ideal for facing off against human predator(s)

So the gun has to be a compromise of size,power,and weather resistance it seems. I bought a .41magnum stainless 4" Dan Wesson for this, think this is a good compromise for my situation?

Had previously used .357mag but felt it may be a bit light. When I hunt coyote/bobcat in areas where there is not really dangerous animals the choice is much easier.

Generally any service sized probably .38spl and above caliber handgun will suffice but I prefer something along the lines of a .45acp autoloader or I might just use a 9mm with a large capacity magazine.

I may go to .38super as an experiment as well. Heck if a coyote comes in close enough I may use it on it!

Area where I did/do go to hunt coyotes has potential illegal alien and drug crossing the border problems hence my concern there mainly.
 
Many a man was done in by the bear they killed....

Making a fatal hit to the heart or an artery takes longer in bears. For it to lose enough blood and go into shock & unconsciousness, bears heart rate is around 25 beats per minute, this is partially why they can hibernate during the long winter months.

Quickest way to bring one down is a spinal or head shot.
 
I know what your saying DoubleAction but those spots seem to be the most vulnerable... if you can hit them or have time.

However, I have been wrong before.
 
I saw an episode of Personal Defense TV where they were showing training for this scenario. They were saying shoot for the eyes & nose-The T. I don't remember the name of the school but it was a class for park rangers-DNR employees etc.
 
dixie slug makes a 12 gauge round that has 3 60 caliber lead balls in it get a saiga 12 and an md arms 20 round drum
bump fire it at the animal
60 60caliber lead balls ought to do the trick
 
We're talking about handguns right? If multiple shots of .40 JHP don't stop badguys sometimes, I wouldn't expect a .45 or .357 to stop a charging bear.
Bears are fast. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgPUhWQxkZk
At that point, I'd come to terms with God. Or if your religion allows suicide... maybe it's more appropriate than watching yourself get mauled by a grizzly.
 
A few comments... I grew up in AK and hiked frequently, but was lucky enough to see a bear only once, and that was through binoculars. My experience is that bears usually keep their distance, but I was never in grizzly country. Humans are by nature very loud, and the whole forest knows when one is nearby. Blackbears usually run but sometimes dig through garbage. Grizzlies? I don't know.

From what I hear bear charges are very, VERY fast. I'd take any shot I could get: shoot from the hip at the bouncing, 30 mph center of mass, then aim for the shoulders if I have the luxury of a second shot. Personally I doubt most people could shoot first if a bear were really determined to make contact, so I prefer revolvers, which would be much more useful if a bear were already chewing on you. Then I'd shove the barrel at their chest & gleefully start pulling the trigger.

I tried packing a rifle. Given the frequency of outdoors activities one experiences when living in Alaska, packing a longarm got old fast. If you're doing anything - picking berries, fishing, chopping wood, roasting marshmellows - you can't use it. Rifles stay in the boat or get leaned against a tree. A big .44 seemed like a better compromise to me.

My wife would answer the question differently: she'd say "stay away from places where you think a bear might maul you", then pack bear spray if we went there anyway.
 
Another $0.02 -

Bear spray in the hand while hiking (or hunting) in terrain that is anything other than "open". If that isn't possible, carry in pouch on pack straps or waist band.

If bear doesn't stop charge or retreat after being hosed down with spray, you may have gained enough time to get a heavy revolver into action.

On the other hand, if it does break off the attack, you don't have to do the paperwork associated with shooting a bear... :)
 
First, find yourself a copy of "Bear Attacks, The Deadly Truth" by James Gary Shelton, and read it so you can lie awake at night imagining all sorts of nightmarish outcomes, most of which will come true if you attempt to stop a grizzly charge with a handgun. Secondly, pay very close attention to the statistics/outcomes regarding pepper spray. Unless you're actively hunting grizzlies, shooting them with any firearm may only increase the rage factor, thereby increasing the chances of you looking like you just went through a blender. Pepper spray has, in the majority of cases, worked by cancelling the rage factor. That goes against my trigger-pullin' inclinations, frankly, but it's hard to argue with the logic and the factual outcomes.
 
I have no experience shooting at bears nor do I want any. I read somehere that it takes a head/neck shot to drop one.

To practice for this sort of shot you could stand at the base of a steep bluff (45° or so angle) with scattered trees and rocks on the face. Put your gun on the ground a couple paces behind you and serve a volleyball as far as you can hit it up the slope. Turn around and walk back to your gun and pick it up. Now turn and put a couple of rounds in the volleyball as it is bouncing down the hill towards you.
 
look em streight in the eye ....................and say stop.
Click to expand...

this is kind of like the picture from rembrant.. it usually works, at least on a 2 1/2 year old named Dylan.
 
It has been done

It has been done.
On page 73 of Sixguns by Keith, he tells stories of different people who killed grizzly bears in self defense, at close range, with one shot from a Colt single action 45. Shooting black powder loads! They were all shots in the brain or spinal column.

How to read bear sign
http://youarekidding.net/?m=200808
 
Aim for the eyes and mouth, or the shoulder. Preferably the head.

Anything bigger than .357 will do nicely.
 
Drop into the fetal position, play dead and dump a big load in your pants.

If playing dead doesn't deter him then the smell coming from your backside will!
:neener:
 
Unfortunately I have to shoot Moose all the time that have been injured by vehicle collisions while on patrol and are suffering. 12 ga. slug right behind the front shoulder works every time. Best chance of hitting lung/ heart/ vital organs. Proportionally the heads are tough shots (they always move and I'm never set up in a hunting blind or anything like that), but due to slow, lumbery movements the "broad side of the barn" shots always do the trick....plain ol' ghost ring sights, usually standing 30 or so feet away. The animal rarely suffers, drops readily and is down for the count.

Funny....I used to hunt birds, have NEVER hunted big game, but I seem to do an awful lot of it at work!! Go figure....
 
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