Byron Quick
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I can scare paper plates to death on a 125 yard berm
How well can you shoot with a centerfire handgun?
- Thread starter JohnKSa
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GoRon
Member
A lot of people voted for the above. I don't see to many of these folks at the ranges around here.
Most people around here are lucky to keep it on the paper at 15 yards with a 9mm.
wheelgunslinger
Member
I generally don't shoot my handguns past 10 - 15 meters, since that's what their effective range is as a defensive handgun. For me, anyway. So, 25 meters is a bit far for me. I shoot it from time to time though. And, when I do, I usually get a 4-6 inch group with a good revolver and a bit larger with an auto.
I used to shoot a ton of 25yd groups with my G34, kept about 90% in the black on a B-8. Right now my only long range check with any regularity is a G17 at 20yds, with my carry ammo I expect to keep a 17rd mag in the head of an IPSC or IDPA target. RF I am practicing for an eventual foray into Bullseye, I currently score 440-460 on a 50 rd practice B-8 at 25yds. with my Marvel stock Colt trigger, and iron sights. I need to get my dedicated lower finished and an optics rail.
I get to the range a lot, most people do not shoot beyond 7 yards with a pistol, nor do they do it well. Maybe I should include my 625 as a defensive handgun. I have had 5 of 6 touching before at 25 yds, but I won't, since I carry it's 325 little brother. Which is pretty accurate if you get over being scared at the ordeal a 185gr +p Golden Saber is coming out of it. But 1" at 25 yds? Wow, you guys are good.
I get to the range a lot, most people do not shoot beyond 7 yards with a pistol, nor do they do it well. Maybe I should include my 625 as a defensive handgun. I have had 5 of 6 touching before at 25 yds, but I won't, since I carry it's 325 little brother. Which is pretty accurate if you get over being scared at the ordeal a 185gr +p Golden Saber is coming out of it. But 1" at 25 yds? Wow, you guys are good.
I must admit that the results suprised me a bit...
Based on the poll, we see that the average shooter can hold better than 4" for a 5 shot group at 25 yards.
Apparently, most of the folks in my neck of the woods are much worse than average shooters!
I got curious when someone posted about shooting 1" groups @ 25 yards on another thread and there was considerable doubt expressed by a poster or two...
This poll says that if you know 17 handgun shooters, odds are that either you or one of the 17 shooters you know can shoot 1" or better at 25 yards.
Although I know 17 handgunners (more, actually), apparently they're not up to THR par.
Based on the poll, we see that the average shooter can hold better than 4" for a 5 shot group at 25 yards.
Apparently, most of the folks in my neck of the woods are much worse than average shooters!
I got curious when someone posted about shooting 1" groups @ 25 yards on another thread and there was considerable doubt expressed by a poster or two...
This poll says that if you know 17 handgun shooters, odds are that either you or one of the 17 shooters you know can shoot 1" or better at 25 yards.
Although I know 17 handgunners (more, actually), apparently they're not up to THR par.
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I suspect the real average is much worse than 4" at 25 yards. Around here, I seem to be one of the very few people who can even get them all on a paper plate at 10 yards. Although one time I found a target holder set way back at 50 yards on the pistol range, with about a half dozen .22 cal holes in it. Almost zero vertical spread, and about 4" horizontal. That's some good shooting!
Valkman
Member
Who cares? I'm not shooting Bullseye anymore, but I do carry so all I care about is combat accuracy. When I picked up my new XD 45 and shot it for the first time I used a target that had all the vitals marked out. After the first couple of targets at 10 yards I sent one down to 20 yards and shot one full mag (13 rounds) and got 8 in the heart, 3 in the lungs, 1 in the ribs and a flyer in the elbow. That will do the job.
Wes Janson
Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2006
- Messages
- 1,962
It might be worth pointing out that only a very few shooters are going to be going online, registering for a site, and then discussing firearms with other enthusiasts. I've met lots of people who owned firearms and went to the range on a semi-regular basis, but who had only a limited knowledge base on shooting.
Yesterday I fired 20 rounds at a target up against the back wall of the local indoor range. The distance is supposedly 52 feet, or 17.3 yards. Maximum width of the group, measured from edge to edge, was about 6.25 inches. That would equate to 9.2 inches at 25 yards. Except that two of the shots were pretty obvious flyers, and without which the group would have equaled 6.6 inches at 25 yards, for 18 shots. What happened was that after the first magazine, I started to anticipate the shot slightly, and that opened up the group. I know for certain my first four shots measured just under 2 inches from outer edge to outer edge, equaling 2.9 inches at 25 yards. I'm not sure where my 5th shot went, but there's a good chance it was very close.
I probably couldn't have repeated that same group later during that session, as I got tired, but 3-4 inch groups at 25 yards seem pretty reasonable to me for a good percentage of shooters.
Yesterday I fired 20 rounds at a target up against the back wall of the local indoor range. The distance is supposedly 52 feet, or 17.3 yards. Maximum width of the group, measured from edge to edge, was about 6.25 inches. That would equate to 9.2 inches at 25 yards. Except that two of the shots were pretty obvious flyers, and without which the group would have equaled 6.6 inches at 25 yards, for 18 shots. What happened was that after the first magazine, I started to anticipate the shot slightly, and that opened up the group. I know for certain my first four shots measured just under 2 inches from outer edge to outer edge, equaling 2.9 inches at 25 yards. I'm not sure where my 5th shot went, but there's a good chance it was very close.
I probably couldn't have repeated that same group later during that session, as I got tired, but 3-4 inch groups at 25 yards seem pretty reasonable to me for a good percentage of shooters.
It depends on the target...
I don't usually set my targets back more than 12-15 yds. max. for handgun practice, and usually half of that. I view a handgun as a tool best used at across-the-room distances and not a lot farther than that. Anything else is just a waste of ammo, at least with my eyes. Give me a life-size 'silhouette' type target, and i can keep a 2-3" group for the most part. Give me a regulation 'bullseye' type target, and i'm all over the paper at the same ranges. Put either of those targets out to 25 yds., and i'm switching to my shotgun.
I don't usually set my targets back more than 12-15 yds. max. for handgun practice, and usually half of that. I view a handgun as a tool best used at across-the-room distances and not a lot farther than that. Anything else is just a waste of ammo, at least with my eyes. Give me a life-size 'silhouette' type target, and i can keep a 2-3" group for the most part. Give me a regulation 'bullseye' type target, and i'm all over the paper at the same ranges. Put either of those targets out to 25 yds., and i'm switching to my shotgun.
Smith357
Member
Your poll choices all show a distance of 25 yards, that is a fairly long distance for a small defensive gun and I have never even tried to shoot my snubbue 66 at that distance. Using my K38 and a modified weaver stance I can get a good 3-5 inch group at that range. I can get the same 3-5 inches at 25 feet frum my M66. My T/C shoots sub MOA.
I say the results are skewed, as shooters are inverse to fisherman. I shoot at sever clubs, and at a public indoor range. I know how bad the majority shoot, and most are great at expending ammo and short on accuracy! Most are interested in doing handgun mag dumps!
I am not a very good shot, but I'm fairly inexperienced and still trying to get better. Most of my pistol shooting is done about 12 yards away at target printouts, in single action (with limited DA in both semi-auto and revolver). In single action I can put everything into less than a 3" group on a good day. My DA shooting needs an immense amount of work, with groups in an 8" pattern.
Of all the things I have tried, shooting is one of my worst. My hands just aren't very steady. The harder I concentrate and the more I focus, the worse I shoot. On the other hand, I have quick reflexes and fast target aquisition. Often my groups improve when I stop timing my shots and quit forcing my breath unnaturally. Maybe I'd have better luck at trap shooting......
Now..... my girlfriend is a phenomenal shot. I took her out a few weeks ago and she blew me away. With no practice at all her worst groups were tighter than my best! Her first 6 shots with my revolver were overlapping at 12 yards, dead center. With cheap reloads. As things turn out, her mother was a repeat champion, winning Tennessee state tournaments for rifle (300 yard M1 Garand, 100 yard .22) along with trap and skeet. She inhereited her mother's trigger finger beyond a doubt. She was so good that I told her, not entirely joking, to drop out of school and start shooting competitively! Anyone giving away sponsorships?
Of all the things I have tried, shooting is one of my worst. My hands just aren't very steady. The harder I concentrate and the more I focus, the worse I shoot. On the other hand, I have quick reflexes and fast target aquisition. Often my groups improve when I stop timing my shots and quit forcing my breath unnaturally. Maybe I'd have better luck at trap shooting......
Now..... my girlfriend is a phenomenal shot. I took her out a few weeks ago and she blew me away. With no practice at all her worst groups were tighter than my best! Her first 6 shots with my revolver were overlapping at 12 yards, dead center. With cheap reloads. As things turn out, her mother was a repeat champion, winning Tennessee state tournaments for rifle (300 yard M1 Garand, 100 yard .22) along with trap and skeet. She inhereited her mother's trigger finger beyond a doubt. She was so good that I told her, not entirely joking, to drop out of school and start shooting competitively! Anyone giving away sponsorships?
M2 Carbine
member
A lot of shooters are of the opinion that they only have to practice from the spitting distance of 7, 10 or even 15 yards.
I don't agree. If the shooting starts the distance will be what the distance will be.
You could be at a great disadvantage if the distance is beyond your practice distance and the person shooting at you is proficient at 30 yards and beyond.
Most shootings do take place close up but that is no guarantee that if you are involved in a shooting it won't be beyond the only distance at which you are proficient.
You owe it to yourself to spend a little time practicing near the limits of your gun.
Besides it's fun.
S&W 2 inch J Frame, 50 yards.
Even a little "Pocket Pistol" like a Polish P-64 will do quite well at distance.
50 yards.
I don't agree. If the shooting starts the distance will be what the distance will be.
You could be at a great disadvantage if the distance is beyond your practice distance and the person shooting at you is proficient at 30 yards and beyond.
Most shootings do take place close up but that is no guarantee that if you are involved in a shooting it won't be beyond the only distance at which you are proficient.
You owe it to yourself to spend a little time practicing near the limits of your gun.
Besides it's fun.
S&W 2 inch J Frame, 50 yards.
Even a little "Pocket Pistol" like a Polish P-64 will do quite well at distance.
50 yards.
MCgunner
Member
That's true for my club, too. I think it speaks to the good shooters on this site, though. I don't consider myself all that above average if any among good shooters, but around here I'm probably in the top 2% in the 5 county area from all the matches I've done. Big fish in a small pond, cause when I go to IDPA shoots where there are serious good shooters, I'm quite impressed.
The club I used to shoot at has a couple of master class guys that were awesome to watch. I barely made expert before I quit going over there. Most of the guys that shoot over there at Eagle Lake are Houston shooters, many in law enforcement, many ex-military even some ex-special forces and all serious as a heart attack about their shooting. If you wanna improve your shooting, go where the good shooters are and obtain loftier goals. I think the general feeling is if it's over 25 yards or whatever, you can retreat. That said, I can see instances where longer shots might be required and that's why I like good accuracy in any carry gun and why I like to shoot for accuracy, but not the only reason. I hunt with a handgun and I often carry one for rabbits and such when I'm spot and stalking deer or other game. I wanna be able to hit a rabbit out at 25 yards with a handgun and I've done it more'n once. Not all uses for a handgun concern self defense and being an outdoorsman, I like to be accurate with any weapon, not just my scoped deer rifle.
Sam
Member
Lone Gunman,
I misread and didn't express in MOA but inches
but for the record
Equipment:
M28 S&W 6" bbl 14.0 gr 2400 under a 162 Thompson LSWCGC
M24 S&W 4" bbl 7.5 gr Unique under 252 gr 429421.
S&W M10 5.0 Unique under the same 162 as the 357.
And plenty of those groups are under 2"
Slight overcast, no wind, 2 hands no time limit.
Sam
I misread and didn't express in MOA but inches
but for the record
Equipment:
M28 S&W 6" bbl 14.0 gr 2400 under a 162 Thompson LSWCGC
M24 S&W 4" bbl 7.5 gr Unique under 252 gr 429421.
S&W M10 5.0 Unique under the same 162 as the 357.
And plenty of those groups are under 2"
Slight overcast, no wind, 2 hands no time limit.
Sam
I'm not even going to say what I can do. I have good days and bad days, and a lot of really fun days. I've made a few shots I'll remember forever, and have my share of paper plates at home that I thought were worth bring home for my wife to see.
I do want to mention a guy in my club. He was a down-east Maine native. He never learned to read, and I saw him polish off more beer than targets in the years that I knew him. Sometimes he'd sit around in the clubhouse bragging about deer he shot at incredible distance, or what he could do with a pistol, especially with the Chief Special he carried.
Well one day Don was spouting his usual BS, when another club member, tired with his bragging, called his bluff, and bet him $10 he couldn't hit ANYTHING at 50 yards with his Chief Special. Not the burning barrel, not the railroad ties, maybe not even the berm.
Don said the bet was on, and didn't say another word.He reached into the trash and plucked out an empty beer can, and walked down to the pistol range. He set the beer can on the railroad tie at the berm at 50 yards, and walked back to the firing line.
He cleared his throat, snorted a bit, and drew his snubby. From his waist his first shot center holed the beer can. He put his gun back in his holster, put his hand out for the ten bucks, and walked back to the clubhouse while those of us watching with mouths open didn't say a word.
I don't know about the rest of the guys, but sometimes, when I think I'm hearing some BS...I remember Don.
I do want to mention a guy in my club. He was a down-east Maine native. He never learned to read, and I saw him polish off more beer than targets in the years that I knew him. Sometimes he'd sit around in the clubhouse bragging about deer he shot at incredible distance, or what he could do with a pistol, especially with the Chief Special he carried.
Well one day Don was spouting his usual BS, when another club member, tired with his bragging, called his bluff, and bet him $10 he couldn't hit ANYTHING at 50 yards with his Chief Special. Not the burning barrel, not the railroad ties, maybe not even the berm.
Don said the bet was on, and didn't say another word.He reached into the trash and plucked out an empty beer can, and walked down to the pistol range. He set the beer can on the railroad tie at the berm at 50 yards, and walked back to the firing line.
He cleared his throat, snorted a bit, and drew his snubby. From his waist his first shot center holed the beer can. He put his gun back in his holster, put his hand out for the ten bucks, and walked back to the clubhouse while those of us watching with mouths open didn't say a word.
I don't know about the rest of the guys, but sometimes, when I think I'm hearing some BS...I remember Don.
xd9fan
Member
my xd. Naturol extension of body. Like lightsaber to jedi.......
woerm
Member
moa naa,
minute of goblin/miscreant, ja mein herr
if the tool does't hold 1.5" groups at 10 paces it goes bye bye.
minute of goblin/miscreant, ja mein herr
if the tool does't hold 1.5" groups at 10 paces it goes bye bye.
vanilla_gorilla
Member
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2006
- Messages
- 360
Pretty average for me. There's ALWAYS one flyer though. :banghead:
Springfield Armory 1911 Loaded.
Springfield Armory 1911 Loaded.
orionengnr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,713
just tried yesterday for the first time
I usually shoot at 7 yards (21 feet). Friend I shoot with (who is a fair bit better shot than I am) generally finishes his range session with a fresh target, 25 yards, one or two mags. He does pretty well at that range (but not 1").
So yesterday we were at the range, and I gave it a try. The targets were about 8 1/2 x 11 size, I had 12 rounds left. My new-to-me 3" Kimber and I are working through our first first 150 rounds together.
Result was, I hit the paper all 12 times. Nothing I could call a "group", but to be honest, I was hoping to hit the paper with 50% of the shots. I was pleasantly surprised.
I usually shoot at 7 yards (21 feet). Friend I shoot with (who is a fair bit better shot than I am) generally finishes his range session with a fresh target, 25 yards, one or two mags. He does pretty well at that range (but not 1").
So yesterday we were at the range, and I gave it a try. The targets were about 8 1/2 x 11 size, I had 12 rounds left. My new-to-me 3" Kimber and I are working through our first first 150 rounds together.
Result was, I hit the paper all 12 times. Nothing I could call a "group", but to be honest, I was hoping to hit the paper with 50% of the shots. I was pleasantly surprised.
Peter M. Eick
Member
I normally shoot at 15 yards and shoot a full box of 50 rounds per target. I found that I could "luck" into really good groups occasionally, but a full 50 really shows me how well I am doing. Some guns I can shoot really well:
pre-25 with 50 shots at 15 yards.
and some days I just am putting patterns up.
Diamondback, 50 shots, 15 yards.
50 is a critical number to really judge the overall system of accuracy in my opinion.
pre-25 with 50 shots at 15 yards.
and some days I just am putting patterns up.
Diamondback, 50 shots, 15 yards.
50 is a critical number to really judge the overall system of accuracy in my opinion.
M2 Carbine
member
Nice shooting Peter
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vanilla_gorilla
"Pretty average for me. There's ALWAYS one flyer though."
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Man, I know what you mean. Now days it doesn't seem to make any difference how many rounds I want to shoot for a group I often throw that one flyer.
Kimber Tactical Ultra
Kel Tec PLR-16 .223 pistol.
P38
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vanilla_gorilla
"Pretty average for me. There's ALWAYS one flyer though."
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Man, I know what you mean. Now days it doesn't seem to make any difference how many rounds I want to shoot for a group I often throw that one flyer.
Kimber Tactical Ultra
Kel Tec PLR-16 .223 pistol.
P38
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