How would you deal with a mentally ill neighbor?

[Ivy Mike]

The setting is a relatively quiet urban neighborhood. Tract homes right near several schools.

I moved in about a year ago. For the last few months my neighbor (a ~60 year old man with mental problems) has been leaving things on my doorstep. At first it would be a pizza or some flowers. Always for someone named Debbie. Of course, there is no one by that name living here. However, a more recent development has been the old man actually coming to the door and demanding to see this Debbie.
Now obviously I've told him to leave and he simply starts getting upset. Usually this is solved by closing the door and locking it. He shouts and then walks off. However, a month ago, he actually tried to get into the house while I was out of town and my younger sister was home. She wisely grabbed the shotgun and called the police. The police came and had the old man taken away for psych evaluation.

Well recently he has come back a few more times and the police have been out twice. Each time they tell me that because he isn't threatening harm to himself or others, they can't do anything about it. The neighbor has made verbal threats of physical violence although I am larger, younger, stronger and more trained than he is. He doesn't seem to pose a real threat in my judgement. This is where I am having a problem.

So my question is how do I go about dealing with this old man? He doesn't appear to pose a serious threat to me. I can handle him in a fight and should he ever get in the house, I am equipped to deal with him and understand my local laws quite well regarding defense against intruders.
I guess I am just looking for opinions on how to solve my issue with the old man without actually hurting him or being hurt myself.

 

[Deanimator]

Get a restraining order/order of protection against him. That puts the ball in the law's court, since he'll be breaking a court order and be in contempt.

 

[Ivy Mike]

I thought about that, but as he won't repeat his threats in front of officers and is mentally ill, the courts won't issue a restraining order.
Besides, the guy is nuts. A piece of paper isn't going to stop him.

 

[Ivy Mike]

I would also prefer the man get help rather than legal trouble which won't solve anything. A trespassing charge isn't going to get him the medication or therapy he needs.

I get the feeling I'm going to need legal advice.

 

[AirForceShooter]

Get in contact with one of his relatives. Son/daughter.
They may [care what happens to him].

AFS

 

[Ivy Mike]

thats a thought AFS.

I'll see if I can find any relatives other than his wife.

 

[doc2rn]

Does he have next of kin?

They can remand him to an institution for psychological help if the police won't.
I also agree you need an order of protection for your sister on stalking grounds. As you said he tried to force his way in when you were not home.
He probably is suffering from some form of dimentia, and if you can ignore it let sleeping dogs lie. If not you should contact the attorney generals office, the police are not the last to have a say on who needs a medical evaluation.

 

[Ivy Mike]

Last time I looked, the police and paramedics are the only ones who can "arrest" someone for medical evaluation without a court order.

The problem is waiting for him to do something serious enough to merit either police action or a court order. I do not want this however. While I am perfectly capable and willing to defend myself, he is just a crazy old man who needs help and not legal trouble.

 

[ToeRag]

Just keep calling the police... EVERYTIME he bothers you. They will have to respond and log the call. You will be on record for following the procedure. It will also include them in your problem as it will then become their p[roblem] as well.

Let them deal with the next of kin - forcing them to keep him in line. I had an aunt that was doing the same kinda stuff, eventually she was put into a nursing home. It was all triggered by the police not wanting to deal with the problem over and over and over...

 

[lee n. field]

Each time they tell me that because he isn't threatening harm to himself or others, they can't do anything about it.

Which is as it should be, in my opinion. You don't want to be hauling people off just on someone else's sayso that "they're weird".

The neighbor has made verbal threats of physical violence although I am larger, younger, stronger and more trained than he is.

Bit of a contradiction here, with what the police told you, re the harm to himself or others standard.

I've got no great advice for you. The police are involved, which means there's a paper trail. Good.

Does he have any relatives around?

but as he won't repeat his threats in front of officers

Got a digital camera? Many of them any more will record video with audio.

 

[bogie]

1) If it gets to it, don't fight him. Restrain him. Help him.

Be nice to the guy... May be dementia or alzheimer's, and you just got promoted to the role of "occasional caregiver."

What goes around comes around. Work on some good karma.

2) Try to find some family. Failing that, contact the local social services folks.

 

[REPOMAN]

I'd look @ talking to his family...... My .02

 

[ZeSpectre]

This is no different from any other kind of stalker activity.

1) Get a pad of paper and a pen and document EVERYTHING! Write down the date and time and a summary of events every time something happens. Keep that pad handy (by the door or whatever) and write up EVERY incident.

2) Get some sort of recording device set up. Voice recorder in the pocket, video camera set up to discreetly monitor the scene, heck with a cheap webcam and a laptop you can have some pretty good surveilance (see Dorgem software).

3) So the guy is smaller, older, etc. He's apparently also crazy so you MUST NOT disregard the damage he could do to you (everything from a gun or knife to burning down your house). Keep an eye on him and stay alert. Not only will a crazy person do things you don't expect, they will do things you never even thought of doing to another person!

4) Call the police for every incident. This is more "paper trail" just like bit #1 up at the top.

Once you have enough evidence built up then getting a restraining order is a slam-dunk, but you have to do your part. It is very important to remember that a restraining order WILL NOT PREVENT MR. CRAZY FROM STOPPING BY, it will simply give the cops grounds to arrest and remove him when he does (and he will) stop by to harass you again.

 

[FM12]

Sometimes dementia, sometimes not. If he acts differently around police/family/other authority figures, he may be more lucid than you think. I had one of these types once tell me "I can kill you and get away with it'. Sometimes they can. All of the legal help in the world can't help you then.

I say go for the camera angle. Maybe let him see you videotape while he "visits". Be careful, either way. Keep your own written accurate account of the events. You might call youe equivalent of the Department of Mental Health and talk with them.

Protect yourself and family.

Has he done this to other neighbors? Make sure the families with small children are aware of your "special" neighbor.

 

[jackstinson]

I'll see if I can find any relatives other than his wife.

Maybe I missed something here? Does he live with his wife?
Even if he doesn't, the first thing I would have done is ask her what can be done about her husband.
The police didn't bother to talk to his wife or relatives? That seems odd.

 

[FCFC]

So my question is how do I go about dealing with this old man? He doesn't appear to pose a serious threat to me. I can handle him in a fight and should he ever get in the house, I am equipped to deal with him and understand my local laws quite well regarding defense against intruders.I guess I am just looking for opinions on how to solve my issue with the old man without actually hurting him or being hurt myself.

How are you "equipped to deal with him" if he "should he ever get in the house?"

Your primary duty is to keep him out of your house.

You certainly don't want to be presented with a situation where you have to decide to, say, use deadly force in a justified manner according to your "local laws....regarding defense against intruders."

Keep calling the cops and start trying for a protective/restraining order. I don't think you really know that "the courts won't issue a restraining order."

Good luck with the old man.

 

[bogie]

Guys... Think of it this way...

You just had a bird fly in through an open door. Why? Heck, it's not really sure why - it just seemed like a good idea...

Now, you can go completely nuts trying to get the bird with tennis rackets, towels, etc., or you can open the doors and windows, and it'll fly back out on its own after a little while.

The guy is probably not dangerous. Probably just confused.

Our BEST asset is communication. Does he have a wife living with him? TALK to her. She is more than likely NOT psychic, and odds are you aren't either. Talk, learn, and go from there.

Of course, it doesn't hurt to be prepared in case he's the kind of crazy who will saw your head off on a greyhound, but odds are, this is just a minor crazy.

Be nice. And someone will be nice to you.

 

[Deanimator]

I thought about that, but as he won't repeat his threats in front of officers and is mentally ill, the courts won't issue a restraining order.

I don't believe that to be the case.

1. He's coming onto your property without your permission. That's trespassing.

2. If he's making threats/inappropriate comments, record them on audio and video. Get still and or video pictures of him on your property. Send him a registered letter instructing him to stay off of your property and away from you. You'll get a receipt.

Those should be enough for a restraining order.

Besides, the guy is nuts. A piece of paper isn't going to stop him.

Of course it won't. But it's justification for taking him into custody if he violates it. If he does something REALLY creepy and stupid, it's justification for whatever you need to do to stop him.

You don't have the slightest duty to put up with what is plainly harassment under the law. It's your duty to mind your own business and not harass other people. If they won't return the favor, it's your right to take the appropriate counter-measures, regardless of whose "fault" it is. It isn't your job to treat this guy, or even to get him treatment. It's your job to protect yourself by whatever means are legally permissible.

 

[GRB]

He doesn't appear to pose a serious threat to me.

My opinions is this: Underestimating someone who is violating the law in trespassing, and in making threats against you, is often a fatal mistake. Underestimating a crazy person can also be fatal. You say you can take him? How do you know this. A relaxed attitude as that can get you killed. This person is a threat to you when he trespasses, or when he tries to get into your home uninvited, and when he makes verbal threats. You should call the police each time he makes a threat. You should also call the local prosecutor's office and inquire about prosecution of the man. You should also get a lawyer if that fails, and have the lawyer make the same inquiries. Hypothetically, you should not wait for this guy to someday come over with his rifle.

All the best,
GB

 

[jrfoxx]

If the cops keep coming out, but say there is nothing they can do, and if you cant find some friends/relatives of his to intervene/help out, the a RO may help.

I would also prefer the man get help rather than legal trouble which won't solve anything. A trespassing charge isn't going to get him the medication or therapy he needs.

I agrre the guy needs some help, not jail, but if relatives cant/wont help, and the cops hands are tied, getting a RO based on repaeted trips out by the cops, will let them arrest him for violating it. Once he is arrested, he is the states responsibility, and he will be "in the system" as it were, and they may be able, if not required, to send him for another psych eval at least, and maybe this time, they'll keep him and get him some help. As I said, I dont think a criminal charge is what anyone wants for him, but it will likely be a petty misdemeaner that wont keep him in jail, or likely cost him in fines, but MAY get him into a position were the state can, and will, be forced to get him some help.

If not a RO, maybe just get him picked up for trespassing next time (should be an even more minor charge than than violating an RO), and have the same effect of getting him into the system, but with even less risk of any time/probation, or fine above a few bucks (you could likely even appear at his hearing and let the judge know whats going on, and he will have more power to help the guy than the cops too). Actually, I like the simple tresspass charge idea better than an RO.Less stigma, less "serious", no effect on RKBA, generally not taken seriously at all as far as probation, fines, etc, but may still have the desired effect.

Finding friends/relatives would still be the #1 way to go if possible though. Try asking around the neighborhood. Maybe someone will have some info to help out.

just a thought.

 

[Drgong]

Try to contact his family, and if he not threatening you, just get him charged with simple trespass as that, depending on the state, will get him the help he needs without a major stigma...

 

[ilbob]

It could just be a senile old geezer who is not real sure what is going on around him and is no real threat to anyone. It is almost impossible for even a professional to tell the difference between someone who is nuts and harmless and someone who is nuts and not harmless until they do something harmful.

A fence and a locked gate might discourage him.

Incidentally, the cops CAN do something about it if he is committing a crime like trespassing. Depending on your state laws, he may not be committing any crime just by coming to your door. Find out what it takes to make it a crime. Might be as simple as a properly worded sign.

I think someone else mentioned getting others involved, such as his family or the local mental health agency, or maybe department of aging.

Chances are no matter what, nothing will happen real quick.

 

[FCFC]

It could just be a senile old geezer who is not real sure what is going on around him and is no real threat to anyone.

If the old fella is "senile" or "mentally ill" I am wondering if he has any guns.

Would be a good thing to look at his ownership of same. "Senile/mentally ill people shouldn't have guns. Too much of a risk....

 

[ambidextrous1]

I think continuing police awareness and involvement is your best option. They will know what community/State services are available to help this poor fellow.

I had a similar situation whenI lived in Los Angeles. The old guy living (alone) next door wandered about the neighborhood, telling fanciful & delusional stories, and on several occasions came onto my patio, sat for several minutes while talking to himself, then left.

Some local agency installed 24-hour "baby sitters", who worked 12 hours on, 12 hours on. He began making delusional calls to 911 when his caretakers were not watching or otherwise busy.

His last 911 call concerned me, and resulted in a dozen police cars responding, with me as their objective.

It's no fun to have several police firearms pointed at you at 8 AM on Labor Day morning! After I got that sorted out, I called the caregiving agency, ripped them a new one, told them that the old geezer was endangering himself and others, and suggested that they could be liable for any consequences.

He was gone - to a secure caregiving home - within two days.

 

[Dumptruck]

Like others have said, he very well could have a gun and come over to "save Debbie". I work at a psych ward and some senile old people will think up the craziest stuff.

"I bet if I burn that house down tonight they will let Debbie go." You definitely need to videotape him in the act and pop him for trespassing everytime he comes over uninvited. A paper trail will have to be made if he isn't going to go completely bonkers in front of the cops. They will have to serve a mental hygiene warrant.