How would you have handled this?

Status
Not open for further replies.

george burns

Member
Joined
May 26, 2014
Messages
1,849
Location
Sebastion
I was food shopping for my 94 year old mother, "as I do every week". I was at a Publics supermarket, about 2 miles from my home in Vero Beach FL.
I parked , as always", right near the entrance, because I have 2 nice cars that I just feel better about leaving when they are as close to the area with the most security.
So I come out to leave, and I see liquid has been poured all over the car. Not knowing what it was, I immediately fear the worst. I have a new triple black Mustang, wit Black mags etc.
The car always gets compliments since they changed the body style. It really stands out with a few coats of wax on it.
I hypothesized what happened due to the way the liquid had hit the car, it was thrown out of a bucket or a cooler, as it hit the front the hardest and continued up to the back of the car, and down the sides. It was not coming off easily and leaving white marks. I decided to go to my moms drop off the groceries and go back to my house where I have the proper compounds to get most anything off without taking off the paint along with it.
After an hour of trying various combinations I got it all off. It was water mixed with something else "maybe booze". I was relieved that it came off, now back to the store. I got hold of the manager and asked for the surveillance tape.
He was very sympathetic and tried to be helpful, but there is no real feed, the camera's are for show only.
I finally came home and calmed down and started to think what I would have done to this guy should I had seen him do this. It was a good thing he had not been seen by me, as I knew by the nature of the act that this kind of scumbag, would have required physical force, which could have easily escalated to the use of a weapon. It was more that likely 2 or more guys in a truck dumping their cooler "possibly full of beer",on my car just because they are morons.
This is when carrying a gun gets tricky, if you engage a possible drunk or just a piece of dirt like these guys were, you need to prepare for anything.
Someone who would do something like that would easily think nothing about cracking your head open with a club or pipe. All in all it ended well considering how pissed off I was at the time. Anyone have a situation like this, what did you do?
Now I had 2 attempted car jacking's in NY some 30-35 yrs ago, and I knew exactly what to do, because I was lucky enough to see them coming, and stop them before they could go anywhere by using my weapon to stop them, but this was different because I didn't know how these guys would have reacted if confronted. Since I am 67 this week, perhaps they would have thought I was an easy target, and continued with this to the point where a weapon would have come out of someone's pocket, Not mine, not until it was a last resort, and I feared for my life.
It's a small town, perhaps we will meet again. I need to keep an eye on my cars even more from now on. The point is when you carry a gun all of your life, you need to restrain yourself even more than the other guy, no matter how difficult it becomes, and as most of us know, you don't mess with a mans wheels.
 
You can't escalate a conflict to "physical force" and then bring a weapon into it.

If they are dumping something on your car and a "stop that" doesn't work, call the cops and take down their license plate #. If you try to physically stop them and then end up "escalating to use of a weapon", then you'd be standing on very flimsy legal ground.
 
First Post Nailed It

Not a pleasant situation but really, it probably worked out for the best. You are ok and your car is ok.

Only way I could see your firearm safely playing into the situation is you interrupt them in the act and while you are calling authorities, they attempt to harm/physically stop you from reporting them.

Even on the soundest of legal ground, I'd still be chalking that up to a bad day if you were forced to draw. Most would be thinking that you shouldve had an earlier de-escalation point/outlet

-Matt S.
 
This is why you insure your car.

The world is full of crappy people. Confronting them will not change them, it will just make the court decide you were looking for a fight.

Without photographic proof that they damaged your car, I agree that it turned out for the best.
 
Last edited:
If you believe resorting to violence is an option because someone poured liquid on your car, then IMO you are no better than the guys acting like children by pouring something on your car. I would have laughed it off and stopped by the carwash to spray it off. Yes I would have been irritated but I would have not became violent over a car. My question is, what did you do to them to cause them to pour whatever on your car?? :scrutiny:
 
You can't escalate a conflict to "physical force" and then bring a weapon into it.

If they are dumping something on your car and a "stop that" doesn't work, call the cops and take down their license plate #. If you try to physically stop them and then end up "escalating to use of a weapon", then you'd be standing on very flimsy legal ground.
Well spoken and to which I would only add never get into an argument with a drunk, you will never rationalize with a drunk. Not that it was necessary just for future reference.

Interesting the Publix security cameras are for show and not for go. I am sure they make a wonderful deterrent.

Ron
 
It is obvious that the OP has a lot of money and emotion invested in that car!

But, the general rule of law is that you CANNOT use deadly force to protect property, only to protect yourself or someone else against a direct, immediate threat of death or grievous bodily harm. If that threat does not exist, or if it has stopped without harm, you CANNOT use deadly force or threaten use of deadly force. Sure, there are nuances and exceptions, but shooting someone over damage to your car would mean a lot more trouble than you ever want to find yourself in.

Jim
 
Some of you are missing the point. What I was asking is if you walk into this situation while it is occurring, what would you do. Laughing it off is not acceptable where I come from. This crap they poured on could have cost me several thousand dollars, more like 5 grand for a nice paint job .If I hadn't got it off fast, and this is not an expensive car, for me, that has nothing to do with it, it's an insult, when someone disrespects you like that. The money is the least of it, I have caught a guy who put his boot on my 2 hour old Porsche one time to wipe his shoe, on my fender, people can really suck.
I didn't touch him, I just called him every name I could think of so he would take a swing at me, "I was unarmed", he wouldn't do it.
The responsibility of being armed can sometimes be a problem if some crazy thing happens to you that defies logic. I have never pulled my gun out unless justified in almost 45 years, but there are times in your life when you least expect it, that you can find yourself in deep water just shopping at the supermarket.
If 2 or 3 guys attack you while you are protecting your property, and have a knife or a gun at the ready, you have every right to defend yourself if you feel your life is threatened and as in this case, have no place to go. And almost all drunks who act out like this, have at least a knife and more than likely a gun.
 
Last edited:
They were probably Camaro enthusiasts.
But, as a life long motorhead, I feel your pain.
If you had caught them in the act, no doubt there was something in your shopping bag that could have been used to for retaliation.
Maybe some nice greasy raw hamburger.
Oops, almost forgot - this is the Highroad.
An anger management class, perhaps?
 
I finally came home and calmed down and started to think what I would have done to this guy should I had seen him do this. It was a good thing he had not been seen by me, as I knew by the nature of the act that this kind of scumbag, would have required physical force, which could have easily escalated to the use of a weapon. It was more that likely 2 or more guys in a truck dumping their cooler "possibly full of beer",on my car just because they are morons.
This is when carrying a gun gets tricky, if you engage a possible drunk or just a piece of dirt like these guys were, you need to prepare for anything.

You know George I hate to tell you this but if you ever get into a use of force incident that isn't extremely clear cut, the prosecution or the lawyer that's handling the civil suit is going to have a field day with this thread.

Why don't you think a minute about what you posted on the internet for the whole world to see?

You know by the nature of the act that someone dumping a cooler or some other substance on a vehicle will require physical force to deal with? How do you know this? How many vandals or practical jokers have you arrested or personally dealt with? They all require physical force? Come on....

Someone who would do something like that would easily think nothing about cracking your head open with a club or pipe. All in all it ended well considering how pissed off I was at the time.

Really? How do you know this? If it's true why don't the police routinely dispatch the SWAT team to make a high risk arrest of the 15 year old who keyed a dozen cars in a neighborhood?

This crap they poured on could have cost me several thousand dollars, more like 5 grand for a nice paint job .If I hadn't got it off fast, and this is not an expensive car, for me, that has nothing to do with it, it's an insult, when someone disrespects you like that.

An insult, disrespected you? I know you're not some kind of gang banger in the hood, but you're certainly talking like one.

I didn't touch him, I just called him every name I could think of so he would take a swing at me, "I was unarmed", he wouldn't do it.

Really smart! Have you ever heard of the phrase mutual combat? You give up the right to claim self defense if you start the fight. You can't start a fight and then claim self defense if you shoot the guy when he starts getting the better of you.

If 2 or 3 guys attack you while you are protecting your property, and have a knife or a gun at the ready, you have every right to defend yourself if you feel your life is threatened and as in this case, have no place to go. And almost all drunks who act out like this, have at least a knife and more than likely a gun.

Again how do you know almost all drunks are armed. I see you coming out of the supermarket to find somebody leaning against your car talking to a friend. You call him every name in the book to try to get him to swing at you and he reaches into his pocket for his cell phone to call the police, you shoot him because almost all drunks who act out like this have at least a knife and more then likely a gun. I see you convicted of at least manslaughter and losing your life savings in wrongful death suit.

You carry insurance for damage to you vehicles. Is the "insult" worth someone's life?

If someone is harming your vehicle while you walk up to it, you simply say stop, get your phone out and call the police. Maybe take a photo of video of the subject. You choke down the anger and forget about being insulted. If you carry a gun you better have the thickest skin in the world because if you start a fight and end up shooting someone, it's on you. Prison, loss of everything you worked your whole life for or both.
 
I think Jeff got the gist of the situation answered superbly as usual. Before anybody posts anything else, think hard about posting anything you'd hate to have a prosecutor read aloud in a trial.
 
Laughing it off is not acceptable where I come from

But going to jail/court/prison as an alternative is acceptable??

It would likely be cheaper to buy a beater to drive on errands around town where you have to park in public than to pay for whatever legal entanglements that could well result from your objecting to someone defacing your nice car for whatever reason they did it.

If you can't leave your ego at home, at least don't drive it to the grocery store.

I'm sorry this happened to you, it shouldn't have, but we don't live in a perfect world.
 
My Denali is full of door dings and scratches from people that weren't raised to respect things that don't belong to you. What would I do if I caught someone in the act? I'd get as much information as possible, ask for their insurance information, then call the police to file a report. If they drove off, I'd get it on video, or at least a picture of their vehicle, then file a report. There are things worth defending. My paint job is not one of them.
 
Jeff nailed it on all points.

George, read his post carefully and slowly, think about it, and do it again later. Maybe a few times.

Everyone else reading this: BE CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT YOU WRITE OR SAY OR POST PUBLICLY.

Very careful.
 
I would have gone over to anyone who was destroying my property and confronted them, The gun has nothing to do with it because I have been dealing with lowlifes all of my life while carrying, and never shot any of them in 45 years.
What I was saying is that someone who does things like this is going to be ready for a problem, because they don't just do it one time, it's a pattern.
Working private security and things I won't speak of here makes me narrow down the personality type of *******s who act out like this.
But that doesn't mean they get a pass and have the right to destroy my property. I am not Zen enough for that. If you screw with me, I will call you on it, then it's up to you to see how far you want to take it.
If they are stupid enough to vandalize a car in a parking lot full of people, they are also stupid enough to pull out a weapon when they are confronted by the person whose property they are vandalizing.
Hey if you walk away, good for you, I don't. If you want to play have to be able to pay when the time comes.
And don't give me that nonsense about internet forums, they are exactly that "internet forums" they mean nothing, and people have been spouting off here for years, with a lot worse malice of forethought than is in this post.
The manager of the supermarket said he would have laid them out if he saw it. And so would anyone who works for what they have and refuses to allow some belligerent idiots destroy what doesn't belong to them. That's one of the things that is wrong with society, people don't get involved when they see morons looting , stealing and breaking into other peoples homes. As long as it's not theirs, but when it is theirs they want to know why no one did anything about it.
This isn't about ego. It is about right and wrong, and standing up for yourself.
 
Last edited:
I don't know what kind of experience you have with the criminal justice system as it currently is, but you are 100% wrong about the Internet not meaning anything. It is standard procedure in most investigations to look into the online postings of all parties involved in all kinds of incidents but especially in fights that result in serious injury or death. I can post links to all kinds of training classes that are offered to investigators on how to follow someone's online trail. This includes forums, instant messages, chat rooms, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and every kind of social media you can think of.

Cases are made every day from things people post online. Divorce attorneys are advising people to stop posting on social media while going through a divorce. A big nationwide firm, Cordell and Cordell even advises that in their ads.

I'm not impressed with "other things you won't speak of here". That can mean anything. In this context it means to me that you are trying to impress everyone that you have some kind of super insight in this issue because you allegedly did things you can't talk about. Not buying it one bit.

If you want to settle things violently that's your right. But we won't condone it here.
 
Some of you are missing the point. What I was asking is if you walk into this situation while it is occurring, what would you do.

smart phone = video = tag# = call to police when they leave and hopefully some charges.

That'd be the smartest thing To do. But normally in similar situations I don't usually think that fast, I think out loud "HEY GET THE $&@? OFF MY CAR"
 
If you are thinking you might end up having to shoot someone because you escalated an argument about minor damage to an automobile, it might be best just to leave your gun at home, or better yet sell it to someone more responsible.
 
But normally in similar situations I don't usually think that fast, I think out loud "HEY GET THE $&@? OFF MY CAR"

I've often used "May I help you!" in a nice command voice. Usually gets their attention and doesn't sound threatening. Works pretty well to startle someone into changing their behavior as they realize they are caught.
 
george burns said:
...And don't give me that nonsense about internet forums, they are exactly that "internet forums" they mean nothing, and people have been spouting off here for years, with a lot worse malice of forethought than is in this post....
You really live in a fantasy world.

I've taken a bunch of continuing legal education classes about effective use of evidence from social media (like Internet forums). I know a number of local agencies around here that have assigned officers to regularly monitor various Internet sites.

And plaintiff lawyers, law enforcement and prosecutors know all about social media and have been learning to use it effectively in civil litigation, criminal investigations and prosecutions. See this article headlined "Bay Area prosecutors increasingly using social media posts in criminal cases" from the 16 August 2013 edition of the Contra Costa Times:
PLEASANTON -- A teenage driver originally accused of vehicular manslaughter now faces a murder charge in the death of a bicyclist, partly because prosecutors say he bragged on Twitter about driving dangerously.

His case is part of a growing trend of social media posts being used as evidence against suspects, authorities said Friday.

....

As suspects feel compelled to post their misdeeds online for audiences to see, investigators have taken advantage, using the online quasi-confessions to bolster their cases, Bay Area prosecutors said.

In San Francisco, a cyclist in March fatally struck a 71-year-old pedestrian in a crosswalk after speeding through three red lights in the Castro District. Chris Bucchere, who eventually pleaded guilty to felony vehicular manslaughter, received a stiffer charge after he posted his explanation of the crash on a cycling group's website....
 
Some of you are missing the point. What I was asking is if you walk into this situation while it is occurring, what would you do. Laughing it off is not acceptable where I come from.

"Laughing it off" is by far the most healthy thing you could do. The fact that you cannot (no matter where you come from) is a problem you should deal with.

This crap they poured on could have cost me several thousand dollars, more like 5 grand for a nice paint job .If I hadn't got it off fast, and this is not an expensive car, for me, that has nothing to do with it, it's an insult, when someone disrespects you like that. The money is the least of it, I have caught a guy who put his boot on my 2 hour old Porsche one time to wipe his shoe, on my fender, people can really suck.

Get over it already. The real tragedy is the number this is doing on your head. On second thought, is your entire posting a parody?

I didn't touch him, I just called him every name I could think of so he would take a swing at me, "I was unarmed", he wouldn't do it.
The responsibility of being armed can sometimes be a problem if some crazy thing happens to you that defies logic. I have never pulled my gun out unless justified in almost 45 years, but there are times in your life when you least expect it, that you can find yourself in deep water just shopping at the supermarket.

Given your comments it might make sense to leave your firearm at home -- or to sell it as someone else suggested.

If 2 or 3 guys attack you while you are protecting your property, and have a knife or a gun at the ready, you have every right to defend yourself if you feel your life is threatened and as in this case, have no place to go. And almost all drunks who act out like this, have at least a knife and more than likely a gun.

Alrighty...
 
First of all, you need to IMMEDIATELY recognize when you emotions spike towards anger. People who become livid quickly are extremely prone to acting without thinking. It can happen to anybody.

Anger can get you in a whole lot of trouble, including a whole lot of dead. "Laughing it off is not acceptable where I come from" is an indicator to me that you may not fully understand this. You may not "laugh it off"...but you had BETTER get a grip on your emotions.


When your anger spikes, you need to immediately clamp down on it and focus on the IMPORTANT stuff: Are you or anybody else in any real, physical danger?

I don't care how badly property may be damaged, it's PEOPLE that matter...especially with respect to any potential application of deadly force by anybody, including you.

You car, no matter how much it may be your 'baby', is NOT people. You can fix a car. You can replace a car. You can get rid of a car. But knife/gun wounds leave marks and disabilities that last forever, if you survive them in the first place.


So what to do?

Get a grip on yourself. Don't do anything stupid. Be observant and take down details, such as description of vehicles, license plates, number and description of people.

You may choose to yell at them to stop or not...that's up to you, based on your analysis of the actual circumstances. But if you have all that other information, the police can round people up later. And it's much safer.
 
First of all I never said anything about "shooting " anyone, only if I saw this happen to anyone's vehicle, I would inquire what was going on.
If it were mine, I would tell them to get the hell away from my car. What happens next is not up to me, buy I'll be dammed if I stood by and watched someone destroy my vehicle that I worked hard to get. And walking away is 1000 dollar deductible, so that isn't going to happen. Sure are a lot of philosophers here today, wonder what you will do when someone destroys your property.
And what gives you the idea that you go to jail for walking up to someone who is destroying your property, and asking them what the F do you think you are doing? Fred, ans Jeff, I have been here where posts when on for days, with guys actually saying they would kill anyone who was on their property, but that didn't stop you from allowing it to continue, I said nothing of the sort, I asked what you wold do if you found someone destroying your property.
Real men don't run away and hide, and you don't go to jail if someone initiates a felony against you. So let's cut the crap, it seems you have an agenda here, perhaps that's why most of the guys who used to post no longer do.
 
Last edited:
You really live in a fantasy world.

I've taken a bunch of continuing legal education classes about effective use of evidence from social media (like Internet forums). I know a number of local agencies around here that have assigned officers to regularly monitor various Internet sites.

And plaintiff lawyers, law enforcement and prosecutors know all about social media and have been learning to use it effectively in civil litigation, criminal investigations and prosecutions. See this article headlined "Bay Area prosecutors increasingly using social media posts in criminal cases" from the 16 August 2013 edition of the Contra Costa Times:

Social media, and Internet forums are typically categorized differently, at least technically. Things like Facebook and Twitter are easy to tie to an individual because of the nature of how they work. The relative anonymity of Internet forums would be much more difficult to use, I'd think. I wonder how many cases have used a post on a forum, as opposed to Facebook, Twitter, etc. Has there been any discussion of the two in your classes, or are they generally thought to be the same?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top