Huffington Post: No Right to Bear Arms

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Zedicus

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/amitai-etzioni/no-right-to-bear-arms_b_116437.html

No Right to Bear Arms

Posted August 1, 2008 | 05:10 PM (EST)

The Supreme Court decision to uphold the ruling of a lower court which struck down a Washington DC law banning handgun ownership as unconstitutional is a bigger set back to American law and public safety than first meets the eye.

To many Americans the court's actions may make sense because even liberal publications often refer to the Second Amendment as if it speaks simply of a "right to bear arms." Actually the text reads, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." You may say the text is ambiguous given that it speaks first about a militia and then about people. However, until this year, whenever this issue reached the highest court of the land, in cases that span nearly 125 years, the court ruled that there is no constitutional barrier to limiting or removing guns owned by individuals. It is this long accumulation of legal judgments which now has been undermined by a court loaded with conservatives.

In an overview of all the cases before 2008 none other than Erin N. Griswold, solicitor general in the Nixon administration, and former dean of Harvard Law School, noted:

"Never in history has a federal court invalidated a law regulating the private ownership of firearms on Second Amendment grounds. Indeed, that the Second Amendment poses no barrier to strong gun laws is perhaps the most well settled proposition in American constitutional law."


The relevant Supreme Court cases are United States v. Cruikshank (1875); Presser v. Illinois (1886); Miller v. Texas (1894); United States v. Miller (1939); Lewis v. United States (1980); Quilici v. The Village of Morton Grove (1983); Higgins v. Farmer (1991); and Printz v. United States (1997). Though the details of these cases vary, and like all such cases they are subject to different readings, the decisions reached in all of them fundamentally affirm that the Constitution does not limit the states' ability to restrict private gun ownership.


For instance, in United States v. Miller, the most often cited of these cases, Jack Miller had not properly registered his sawed-off shotgun, nor had he paid a tax for transporting this weapon in interstate commerce, both required under the 1934 Firearms Act. Miller claimed that the Act violated his Second Amendment rights. The Court ruled that because Miller could not prove that his shotgun had "some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument."

Seems plain enough. But when I wrote previously about this subject I received a storm of critical emails. Many of the responses were composed merely of cuss words strung together, of the kind one would expect to find in a poorly kept public toilet. Some readers, though, offered actual arguments. They quoted Washington, Jefferson, Madison, and George Mason to show that our founding fathers were proponents of private gun ownership. My response is that ours is a government by laws which cannot be trumped by quotations from even the most highly regarded patriotic icons.

Recently some social scientists have claimed that their studies show that the more guns private citizens have, the lower the crime. These are the results of highly manipulated models, not actual empirical research. If one compared the murder rates in nations in which there is next to no private ownership of guns (such as the UK and Canada) one sees that for decades, they had much lower murder rates. Ditto for other kinds of violent crime.

The NRA argument that criminals kill people, not guns, ignores the fact that guns make it much easier for a person to kill scores of others than say knives or wrenches, to which guns are often compared. Moreover, one must note that guns in the house are more likely to be used by one spouse against another, or discharged accidentally, or to endanger children -- than ever be used against a criminal. In fact, for every justified use of a gun in the home, there are about 22 criminal or unintended shootings.

One can but hope that the recent Supreme Court ruling will not open the door to a widespread relaxation of laws in other cities or states which limit the availability of dangerous weapons. While unclear, the Supreme Court's decision does not deny that cases may be made for state limitations on the possession of firearms. However, by reversing course in the Court's history of interpreting the Second Amendment, it is likely to impose an unwelcome burden on attempts to improve public safety.

Amitai Etzioni is University Professor and director of the Institute for Communitarian Policy Studies at George Washington University. His most recent book is Security First (Yale 2007) www.securityfirstbook.com email: [email protected]
For more on Second Amendment issues: http://dspace.wrlc.org/handle/1961/587
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Say what?:scrutiny:

Typical Anti-Gun Biggots, When the Facts and reality don't fit what you want them to, Make something up...:banghead:
 
This article is now as irrelevant as yesterday's newspaper.......and considering the HuffPo source, less.
 
I am curious - if you have a gun in your house, is it statistically more likely to injure or kill someone accidentally (or purposely, but illegally - say a family member during an altercation), or used to defend the home.

Second, are people who live in homes more likely to be shot than people who live in homes without guns.

I honestly don't know the answers to these questions, but they are brought up often enough. How would you respond if someone asked you that? While a gun may be safe in _your_ house, what if, in fact, homes with guns were more likely to be the site of gun injury or death than homes without guns. And if so, could one not make an argument that simply by not having a gun in the home one is - statistically at least - less likely to be shot.

Not trying to play a devil's advocate here. I own nine (or is it ten?) guns, have my CCW, and support the Heller decision.
 
Leftist extremists have always believed the workers and peasants have no rights: a few privileges granted by the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-wise state, to be sure, but no intrinsic rights.

They'll say anything and do anything to advance their totalitarian cause.
 
What do you expect from a liberal blog? The Constitution is not too highly regarded in the extremist world.
 
The Constitution said:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed

They call that ambiguous? It clearly states that a well regulated militia is necessary for national security, but the right of the people to keep and bear arms can't be taken away. Seriously, anybody who can't see that either can't read, or is lying for personal benefit.

[/rant] Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be writing to Rodney Frelinghuysen to ask if he'll introduce a bill that has reasonable restrictions on freedom of speech.
 
The press will keep trying, and always keep a negitive spin (IE even .22 semi autos will be tagged as "assult weapons")
They never report clubbings (unless it's a cute little baby seal.)
 
ok then, I declare the first amendment doesn't mean huffpo can publish

So I hope they listen to me as much as I listen to them
 
First of all, "communitarian policy studies" sounds like a made up academic discipline needed to retain tenured professors who can't hack it in their major field. Second, the good professor
talks about empirical research...well, let's see it! What refereed journal can I find it and who are the authors? To the professor I say either put up the published studies or go back to taking naps during your office hours!
 
Originally Posted by The Constitution
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed

Does each comma evoke a different statement in and of itself, or is the sentence to be taken as a whole thought pattern? Any English professors out there who can shed some light on this?
 
If one compared the murder rates in nations in which there is next to no private ownership of guns (such as the UK and Canada) one sees that for decades, they had much lower murder rates. Ditto for other kinds of violent crime.

WHERE do you get your "FACTS"?? :banghead:

Canada has millions of guns in private ownership. Their 'registration' law is costing Canadians millions of dollars and it is a dismal failure.

By comparing the US to the UK is comparing apples to oranges. Compare the UK's violent crime rate from before they, for all practical purposes, confiscated millions of firearms from law abiding citizens to now. Their violent crimes have skyrocketed and crimes using knives have gone up ten-fold. Their gov't has laughingly started legislation to outlaw KNIVES even though the most common knife used in a violent crime is the household kitchen knife. I guess they'll have to start ripping the chickens apart with their bare hands in order to fit in in the skillet!

Did you really think that you could come onto a forum of intellegent folks and start tossing half-truths and outright lies around without being called onto the carpet?

How silly of you, ol' chap.:D
 
Does each comma evoke a different statement in and of itself, or is the sentence to be taken as a whole thought pattern? Any English professors out there who can shed some light on this?
The commas are irrelevant - most are an artifact of the copyists, since several different comma'd versions exist contemporaneously with the debate on the BOR.

For the rest, please ignore Professor Etzioni. He has an opinion, which has been overtaken by Heller.
 
Amitai Etzioni, that old tired socialist POS who has no business in spouting off about constitutional law in any fashion.

More socialist crap from this old hard liner.
Degree in sociology from Berkley, then on to Columbia, late in Carter cabinet.


Read his crap bio here:
wwww.amitaietzioni.org/
 
The Constitution :

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed

Our founding fathers thought of "the militia" as everyone. Every farmer, merchant, railroad worker and barber was expected to "keep & bear" some type of weapon to keep the gov't (any gov't) in line and answering to "the people".

The gov't isn't the ruler of this great nation, the 'people' are. The gov't is only in existance to do the peoples' bidding. If you don't believe that then please move to a country of your choice where the gov't thinks that they are the rulers/Gods/betters. There are plenty of countries to choose from : Vietnam, N. Korea, E.Germany (oops, that gov't chg'd), USSR (oops, that country went kaput). Anyway, go ahead and pick one..... but make is quick as one after another is going under because it just doesn't work!
 
You see, people? THAT IS THE REASON why I think the 1st Amendment should be reworded.

I appreciate the responses from that defunct LEGAL thread regarding the Constitution, but I don't appreciate how rewording the 1st Amendment can be called "communism".

You say everybody has the right to free speech? Well, look what powers it gave to our political enemies.

American Rifleman featured an article where two young women were raped for hours in their house, unable to defend themselves because of DC's atrocious gun control laws.

People being murdered or assaulted every day by criminals who have nothing to fear from their victims, knowing that the law have already disarmed them.

Leftist extremist organizations such as Brady and VPC, with millions of embezzled and extorted dollars being used against us.

Newspapers such as Huffpo and NY Times, exercising their "right to free speech" to attack America and strip the people of their civil liberties, one by one.

People like Mr. Dick Heller, having to sue the DC government ONCE AGAIN, because the government simply pretended the Supreme Court doesn't exist.

Leftist elitist columnists in Chicago saying that the 2nd Amendment should be repealed:fire::fire: If anything is to be repealed, it is their 1st Amendment rights allowing them to spew such rhetoric. The Bill Of Rights is a package! UNDERSTAND? Want to take away the 2nd Amendment? Then you better take away everything else. Otherwise, leave the Bill Of Rights ALONE!

Want me to say more? All because of the 1st Amendment and how it is worded, the above mentioned things happened today.

If the 2nd Amendment is destroyed in a grim future, it will be because of leftist extremists using the 1st Amendment to tear the 2nd Amendment apart.
 
Bear: One answer to your question.

I honestly don't know the answers to these questions, but they are brought up often enough. How would you respond if someone asked you that? While a gun may be safe in _your_ house, what if, in fact, homes with guns were more likely to be the site of gun injury or death than homes without guns. And if so, could one not make an argument that simply by not having a gun in the home one is - statistically at least - less likely to be shot.

The reason you hear this often is because any anti-gunner worth his salt has heard or read this and then passes it off as gospel to the next guy. The source of this ridiculous claim is from a study conducted by an anti-gunner, Arthur Kellerman. There are many locals on the internet that discuss his work, but one of the most commonly cited is this.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgaga.html

Another link to look at:

http://www.gunowners.org/sk0701.htm

The realities are guns kill. Do they make your house more likely to experience a shooting? Maybe if you are a criminal, involved with criminals, or have someone that is suicidal in your home. Otherwise, keep them responsibly stored and there is no problem. In fact, anti's hate to hear it, but as far as "gun accidents" involving children, many, many more kids are killed each year by drowning, falling, or riding in a car, than are killed by a gun.

PM me if you are looking for some additional info on this.
 
In an overview of all the cases before 2008 none other than Erin N. Griswold, solicitor general in the Nixon administration, and former dean of Harvard Law School, noted:
"Never in history has a federal court invalidated a law regulating the private ownership of firearms on Second Amendment grounds.

Well, it's about time then. :)
Marty
 
Who cares?
The decision has been made.


This is just more anti-gun whining.
 
My response is that ours is a government by laws which cannot be trumped by quotations from even the most highly regarded patriotic icons.
And all this time I thought it was a government of the people lead by Constitutional Rights, that were not to be trumped by unconstitutional laws.

This guy's fantasy of Police State is something else.
 
Huffington Post - rehashing the same old bologna these folks been trying to push for years .

If they can't dazzle anyboy with their brilliance, they have to resort to baffling them with their BS .
 
So, every amendment enumerated in the Bill Of Rights, applies to the individual, EXCEPT, for the second amendment, which applies to the state. Is this what they expect us to believe? How devoid of logic does one have to be, in order for this to make sense? :banghead:
 
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