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I’m done with Remington

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Bayourambler, Mar 20, 2018.

  1. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    You know it's a weird thing, but despite the fact that I reload, all my guns only ever get shot with factory ammo.......... :cool:;)

    Guess I'm just concerned I'll void a warranty, so I have all this reloaded ammo sitting around, just collecting dust. :thumbup:
     
    horsey300, mcb and LoonWulf like this.
  2. illinoisburt

    illinoisburt Member

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    Instead of fighting the system, I would just pay with a credit card and get it shipped back. Once in hand, then politely ask Remington for a refund. If they say no, go to card company and dispute the charge. Let the bigger company with more leverage do the asking.
     
    Orcon and Sovblocgunfan like this.
  3. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    Funny you mention that, same here!

    I reload for the relaxation, I never shoot anything I make.

    I don’t own any Remington firearms, but if I did I would NEVER use any of the reloading components they sell to make reloaded ammo, then.....god forbid.....actually shoot it out of one of their firearms. Why would anyone ever do that?!?!
     
  4. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    Me too man.

    Wait, maybe if you're using Remington components it's ok.

    Nah...... I still wouldn't do it. Everyone knows reloading is too dangerous. I just make rounds to relax.

    It gives me that warm and fuzzy prepper feeling.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
  5. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    Seriously though, everyone has to see the irony.

    Remington sells reloading components

    People make ammunition from their reloading components

    Remington sells rifles

    Never shoot ammunition you made from the reloading components that Remington sells in a rifle that you bought from Remington or else the warranty (you paid for) is no good

    And I hate to tell you this, but warranties are a balance sheet liability that need to be reserved for. Guess where that falls in priority when a company files bankruptcy and has a list of investors and creditors to pay?
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
  6. DM~

    DM~ Member

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    I've been buying Remington's all the way back to the 70's, even then it was known that shooting reloads in a Remington would void the warr...

    This isn't a new policy and it isn't just a Remington policy either.

    DM
     
    ColtPythonElite likes this.
  7. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    I’m still going out on a limb here (and not very far) to say that because you told them and because you were shooting reloads you mistakenly loaded well above max. that they have the discretion to void your claim. If I put diesel in my gasoline powered Jeep it isn’t Jeep’s fault if the dang thing don’t run right. That may seem harsh but it’s still the truth. Companies place disclaimers about hand loads precisely for this scenario.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
    DM~ and ColtPythonElite like this.
  8. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    What would handloads have to do with an inability to get factory ammo to group?
     
    Gtscotty and ohihunter2014 like this.
  9. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    Unfortunately we don’t have the particulars behind the rifle’s history. We know the OP stated in another thread he had accidentally overcharged reloads and fired them which he does not specify in this thread, only that he was handloading for it and also tried factory ammo. In what order?

    Once damage is done no ammo; fodder, premium, or custom will group well. I began reloading at 14, that’s 31 years ago and I don’t always find a load that produces outstanding accuracy with every rifle because not every rifle is capable of outstanding accuracy regardless of make or barrel contour or legend or hype.

    The OP is new to reloading and made what is one of the simplest of mistakes to avoid and, if we’re being honest about the average person’s loading ability, most will never produce ammo as accurate as factory loadings. That is not to discount anyone specifically, only that the average guy just doesn’t delve beyond scratching the surface.

    At this point there is no means of even determining whether the rifle is actually damaged, fouled with copper, or simply lacking the right prescription load. I’m not defending Remington, the repair center, or the OP at this point as finding the problem and implementation of the solution are all that should really matter.
     
  10. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    NOT LEGAL ADVICE:

    Earlier in this thread, we discussed Remington's actual language, which absolves them of warranty obligations for problems "arising from" handloads. Unless the problem here was caused by handloads, then that's inapplicable. If they believe that the handloads CAUSED the problem, they should tell the OP that, and explain what their basis for that is. Did they borescope it and discover a bulged barrel? They should say why they think the problem was CAUSED by handloads... or they should treat it as a covered warranty claim, as the language they (and their lawyers) wrote says.

    Alternatively, if their position is that a 2 MOA rifle of this type is within spec, that would also be a colorable position... but somewhat at odds with the marketing/positioning of this product. And unhelpful to their future marketing, I suspect.
     
  11. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    We could argue for arguments sake but I believe that’s what they told the OP. How it is I’m umbent upon the repair facility to determine factory defect from customer caused damage when which is a coin toss is beyond my ability to comprehend.

    Were it me I would have asked about the particulars of the damage found and how it was determined that ammo was to blame but it seems that did not happen.

    Let’s frame this another way: I buy a box of WWB 9mm and the first round blows up my Glock 17. I grab my kinetic hammer and determine the bullet was not 119 gr but rather 142 gr and is compressing the powder.

    Do I:
    1. Call Glock and demand a new pistol?
    2. Call Winchester Olin and demand a new pistol?

    Now, who’s to blame, the firearm manufacturer or the ammo manufacturer? If you chose number 2, replace Winchester with “I’d call myself at fault for loading out of spec ammo and I am to blame for damaging my firearm.

    To my knowledge Remington offers no accuracy guarantee with any Model 700. Internet claims by owners are what lend credence to such rubbish as “mine shoots cloverleafs all day long”. Every brand, every time. Heck maybe all of them do shoot that well but that’s not my experience.
     
  12. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Really? Really? The party trying to get out of its otherwise-present warranty obligations can just say, well, "maybe it's because of something else," without any evidentiary basis, and you think that's reasonable? Heck, maybe aliens altered the gun. Prove they didn't or go away with your warranty claim, consumer!
     
    Gtscotty likes this.
  13. squirrelmurder

    squirrelmurder Member

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    This thread has given me hope that idealism still exists; at least here on this forum, but unfortunately not among manufacturers, attorneys, and most everyone else. I have read many posts here which praise the service of some manufacturers, but in today’s world, those are exceptions. Most of the dealings I have had with warranty claims and repairs on anything for the past 25 years have gone the same way for me as this Remington issue did for the OP. Warranty or not, they are going to squeeze something out of you for every interaction (pound of flesh!), and the wording of a warranty or contract is vague for a reason. If you are an attorney, by all means go after them. If not, take your lumps and move on.
     
  14. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    So far as I know such language has never been used by Remington or me and the OP (and you for that matter) don’t have the first inkling as to what damage the rifle has sustained because neither of you has asked. You can assume all you like and you can disregard what I actually wrote in favor of your interpretation, but that won’t change the FACT that FACTS are something this thread is well short on.

    If it were my rifle, I would acknowledge my mistake, that’s a standard I live by, I would inquire as to the specifics of the “damage”, request the written estimate, pay the return shipping, and get the rifle to a competent smith. If the smith took issue with the damage claim I would proceed with disputing charges with my credit card company.

    I would not besmirch some company while conveniently leaving out my initial folly. That isn’t productive nor is it a particularly worthy post for THR as it fails to solve the problem and requests no potential solution.
     
  15. ohihunter2014

    ohihunter2014 Member

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    I have a serious question and not trying to argue with anyone I really want to know.

    OP runs over book loads in his rifle. How much over book? If the rifle didn't grenade, cracks in the chamber, etc I really cant see how the 22+ inch barrel would shoot poorly after shooting over pressure rounds?

    Savage claims MOA or better right from the box but to get MOA I have to shoot a premium bullet and I get MOA if I'm lucky but my handloads get nothing but MOA or better. My other question is if a rifle will not shoot under 2'' with premium ammo then what's the owner to do keep buying a bunch of premium ammo until he finds something the gun likes? I tried FMJ when I first got my savage and it shot 2-3'' groups and with V max factory it shot 1-2'' groups mostly 2'' so I'm assuming if I went with something better than a v max it would keep shrinking but OP's didn't shrink.

    Remington should own up to it and say okay factory gold medal match wont shoot for dirt so there is a barrel issue. I would think the whole reloading nomenclature is because they don't want a guy blowing the gun apart and saying I want my warranty! Just like the clowns who buy cabelas boots and clothes and wear them out in 2-3yrs and go cry they want new stuff and when they don't get new stuff or offered a discount which is more than enough replacement they bash them.
     
  16. dh1633pm

    dh1633pm Member

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    I would say, sorry did I say handloads? I mean hand picked.
     
    ohihunter2014 likes this.
  17. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    For all of the gushing language, not one iota of a hint of a promise of MOA guarantee. My $180 T/C Compass specified MOA for a 3-shot group, with Premium Factory Ammunition. Remington promises nothing.


    FCF4BE3B-CE7C-4168-B82A-A32C7DAE010E.png 3016B8C5-3F98-4CF1-8CAA-86B213B7B326.png

    In their warranty, and this is not flimsy lawyer speak, it’s plain English! If they didn’t cause it, they don’t warranty against it! ‘Including...damage...arising out of...Hand loaded...ammunition...’

    That does not read “shooting hand loads voids the warranty” it makes a distinction that IF your ammunition (of any kind) causes the damage then Remington is NOT responsible. Not limited to means duct taping a bayonet to the muzzle that subsequently scratches the blueing or torquing a mount to 50 ft pounds and stripping the receiver threads or any number of goof ups by the end user are not covered and void the warranty.


    B2443579-3567-4FEB-9960-6802EFD06072.jpeg

    Furthermore; until it can be ascertained what damage does or does not exist, and unless or until we know the sequence of events, we will never know what’s up with the rifle. More than one thread here has been concluded with an OP cleaning copper build up or 20 years of carbon deposits and obtaining measured improvement. Not all damage is so obvious as a barrel bulge.
     
    ontarget likes this.
  18. Snidely70431

    Snidely70431 Member

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    Remington just declared bankruptcy. No mystery why. Some of their bolt guns have the bolt handle silver soldered to the bolt. Duh!?
     
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