I bought a stolen Gun

[Oyeboten]

If the police still have it in their custody and do not need it anymore, and you are licensed, with the permission of the next of kin, providing there is no will giving it to someone else, yes you can get it back. If it's willed to someone, that person can also pass it on to you through proper procedure depending on state law and interstate shipment to a dealer in your state if your not in the same state as the owner and the revolver.

Thanks tpaw...just what I was thinking.


It's not any big deal, but, if the Fates decree that no one there wants it, I would like to be on top of things for getting it back.

Personally, I hope the now 90 year old guy is an ex Body Builder, doing a couple hours a day at the Gym, and looking not a day over 65, and glad to have his Snubulator back...Lol...

 

[Oyeboten]

For me, as for buying 'new'...an S&W 10-6 is as new as I would ever go, and even that much of 'new' is an exception to my general likes.

In my opinion, the S&W Revolvers of that period, 1960s to early 1970s, Pinned Barrels, no 'mim', are still very high quality, and were still as all round good and reliable as it ever got, or will ever get, even if fit and finish wise they are a little shy of their ancestors sometimes.


Looks and detail, fit and finish, sound of mechanism and feel wise, I love the early ones the most...WWI era or 1920s and before, far as S&W and Colt Revolvers...and I am fine with those 'thin' Sights they had.

Daily Carry can be hard on a Revolver, especially here in the Desert and doing out doors Work...so...I would not feel so bad weathering the Blue over some years on a Model 10, as I would a 70 to 100 odd year old one...and, besides, the Model 10 will gladly abide some peppier Rounds than the early 'M&P' ones, so...that settles that.

A Model 10-5 Snubby, such as I waved Bye-Bye to the other day...is a very nice Revolver to own, shoot and plink with, and carry.

 

[PT1911]

same thing has happened to an FFL I know.. they buy a batch at a Police auction and one or two slipped through the cracks and were not removed from the system. When the guns are recovered, the numbers are run and attempts are made to have the owners retrieve the gun... if these are unsuccessful, they guns are disposed of... some departments sell them via auction or large batches to contracted stores while others destroy some or all of them... in the end, it this is the case, the owner had their chance and the error falls on the police department... if this is the case, the police owe you a gun.

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

did the GB seller offer a refund, or simply full purchase credit?

 

[Oyeboten]

Seller offered a refund...he is away from his home and business though till later this week.

If I accept the refund, or credit against another purchase, and, also happen to end up getting the Revolver back, I would of course refund the seller his refund to me.

We shall see...I should be getting a copy of the original Police Report soon, then I will have the data I need to talk to the Florida PD.

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

good to hear, keep us posted.

 

[woad_yurt]

another good reason for buying new....

So, where do I go to buy a new S&W N frame without a lock?

Thank you for saying that. I was going to ask a similar question about K-frames with pencil barrels.

 

[Oyeboten]

Seller's Records indicate he had purchased the S&W Model 10-5 Snubby from the same Sheriff's Office in Florida which holds the open case 1997 Stolen Propety report as the basis of claiming the Revolver is 'Stolen', and as the basis of their demanding the Revolver be returned to them ( which procedure of return being overseen my LV Metro as of April 9th I think it was, when I handed the Revolver over to them).

Still trying to talk with 'Records' of the Fla Sheriff's Office who by now possibly have the Revolver in their posession...but without a proper and full Case Number they can not locate the file/report.

LV Metro Officers who I had been so nice to, have not returned any of my by now about nine calls over the last week, asking them to please follow up as they had promised they would do, and supply me with the documentation, or at least give me the Case Number numerals WITH prefixes, so Flordia Sheriff's Office can locate the documentation.


Oye...

 

[ants]

Oye, buddy.

Me, personally, I would totally forget about the follow up with Metro and FL S.O. We each got a limited number of days on earth, and I ain't wasting one of them on those guys.

You got paperwork from Metro, didn't you? I would send that paperwork to the seller with a very polite demand for refund, and give him the option of finding you another Model 10-5. I bet he happily complies, because he can probably get another decent 10-5 for you. He still makes the sale.

 

[Oyeboten]

No...the two Metro Officers ( undercover unit of some sort ) only wrote some Numerals on the back of one of their cards, supposedly representing the Florida Case Number...and Florida does not recognise the numerals he wrote down.

Hence, I have been calling him for a week now, asking for correct numbers.

The Officer promised me on April 9th he would Mail me a full copy of Original Florida Stolen Gun Report ( which he had with him), and, since then, "nothing"...nothing in the mail, and none of my phone calls for a week now, have been returned.

Seller is good people and happy to refund any time I like.

I wanted to see these other details through just on my own steam because somehow I felt like it and it seemed interesting...Lol...

And, it gets more interesting as I go, too.


So...we'll see what shakes.


I will make an Appointment to-morrow to see the County Sheriff here, and ask him about the follow-through I was promised...and or for his Records department to supply me with whatever documentation they have on this matter.


Then, finally, if I have the correct case Number, I can communicate with the Florida Sheriff's Office who sold the Revolver to the Seller I bought it from, then claiming it was 'stolen' in 1997.

 

[JWF III]

Seller's Records indicate he had purchased the S&W Model 10-5 Snubby from the same Sheriff's Office in Florida which holds the open case 1997 Stolen Propety report as the basis of claiming the Revolver is 'Stolen', and as the basis of their demanding the Revolver be returned to them

If I didn't know better, and fully trust everything any gov't agency tells me, I'd say that sounds like a con job for increasing revenue.

1-Get stolen property report for a specified item
2-Acquire said item, and DO NOT return to the rightful owner
3-Sell item in an auction (Who would suspect the police for fencing stolen goods?)
4-Item is then resold to another person, through proper channels
5-Item is investigated, and found to be stolen
6-Item is confiscated from it's legitimate buyer, who is refunded their money by a gracious seller
7-Item is returned to original PD and the pattern is repeated

NOTE- lines 1&2 could be reversed.
1-Acquire a traceable item
2-File false stolen property report on said item

Nice way to raise revenue. Only the person that bought the item at the police auction is out of money. Who cares, we want "his kind" out of business anyway.

Oye- I'm definently interested in how this turns out. But I would fully understand if you get tired of being run around in circles.

Keep us posted, while you're still hanging in there.

Wyman

 

[kanook]

In a certain SWFL county (Lee), one of the deputies was taking firearms from the evidence room and selling them at the local gunshow. After he got caught all they did was put up a sign with his picture on it asking for people to try to remember if they bought a firearm from him and if they did to return it to the department.

Not all of the firearms have been recovered yet. It has been around 10 or so years

 

[Oyeboten]

Hi JWF III,


I was thinking the same thing!


Not in a hard way, but, you know, just musing...


Finally tracked down the Officer I had handed the Revolver to on April 9th...( this was kinda fun really, I just arbitrarily started calling different departments, asking in a familiar easy way, "Say where's so-and-so?" and soon I had his location, got with that department, and got him on the 'phone )... he said he's been busy, sounded friendly, remembered me ( well, after the last ten or so messages I had left, how could he not? ).

He says on Friday he mailed me my Copy of the Copy he had of the 1997 Florida Document/report.

Who knows...usually in town Mail takes one day, but, who knows.


"Walton County, Florida"...



We'll see...


Lol...

 

[rscalzo]

I know that the NCIC database contains incorrect info due to people making errors when they input the info

That isn't accurate to some point because entry into NCIC must satisfy certain safeguards. However entry of firearms is somewhat looser due to duplicate serial numbers on firearms and no checks similar to that of a VIN entry.

But more importantly, entries do not stay in the system indefinitely. Space restrictions requires purges after a certain time frame. If a firearm is entered into the system and not checked for that time period, then purged, it can easily come up as a No Hit. Offline searches can turn up the stolen items after the fact at times. The Stolen Gun file also contains firearms recovered with the owner unknown.

As per NCIC Guidelines:

Gun file:
a. Unrecovered weapons will be retained in file for an
indefinite period until action is taken by the originating agency to
clear the record.
b. Weapons entered in file as "recovered" weapons
will remain in file for the balance of the year entered plus 2.

 

[BushyGuy]

they sold you a stolen gun? then the person responsible for selling you the gun is responsible for refunding you the money , if they dont then take it to court -bring reciept and with police report of stolen item.

Your lucky you didnt get charged with recieving stolen property, so whoever sold the gun down the line should be charged with it.

 

[Oyeboten]

Hi BushGuy,


I won an Auction on 'Gunbroker', from a good reputation FFL.

The FFL had bought a bunch of Guns from the Walton County Florida Sheriff's Office, and, the one I won was one of them.

After I registered it here, I was notified by my local PD, that the serial Number came up as coresponding to a 1997 Florida Crime Report showing the Gun had been stolen in 1997.

So, it appears that the Sheriff's Office who sold the Gun to the FFL, from whom I bought it, was sitting on the very same Crime Report which stated it to be 'stolen'.

That's all I know so far.

I surrendered the Revolver to my local PD, who I assume forwarded it to the Walton County Florida Sheriff's Office, with whom I shall be speaking any day now.


Kind of a wacky tale so far, wouldn't you say?


Seller offered a refund right away when I called him to let him know what was up, and, to ask who he'd got it from.

I said "Lets see what shakes, and, if things unroll where I can get it back, then who cares...and if not, I will take you up on the refund thing."

 

[essayons21]

the one I won was one of them

Wow that tied up my brain just reading it.

Oyeboten,

It sounds like some folks in the PD are trying to ignore you and hope you go away. Pretty much SOP in government bureaucracies across this great nation. Don't let them get away with it!

Did you meet with the Sheriff yet? If you are fortunate to have an elected Sheriff, an angry constituent in his or her office will surely light a fire under the butt of whoever is handling this case. Even if the officer is paying you lip service and making promises, a trip to the Sheriff's office might still be a good idea.

I imagine that the initial sale of the gun was more likely a matter of simple human error or negligence rather than something more nefarious. Unfortunately for you, the Florida PD is likely in full CYA mode, which may give you even more trouble. Don't expect your local PD to push their brothers in blue on your behalf either.

You are fortunate to have a seller who is honorable and is willing to make good on this mistake. As this is likely to drag out for many months, you may want to get the refund, then forward your records of police contact to him. I'm assuming he is in Florida or at least nearby, and can probably do a better job of tracking the gun (and hopefully getting it back if the original owner is deceased).

Either way, good luck and keep us updated!

 

[Wolfebyte]

the other point is, if you have the NIC number, it is always searchable in the NCIC database. Query by the NIC number, will give you the Original Agency, ORI, case number, Date of Theft/Report, Date of Entry into the NCIC system.

As pointed out, guns do not expire, however, they must be validated every year by the original entering agency. Sadly, most TAC's just mark them off saying that they verified the entry, without doing any checks and balances.. ..

Good luck Oyeboten

 

[jonboynumba1]

may well be it was just never taken out of the NCIS from when the PD had it that sold it (if that is the case) either way get your $ back and move on...it's a PITA dealing with issues like this and getting things corrected...we had a gun in limbo at the shop for like 5 years until the new cheif finally got everything cleared up for us as a favor.

 

[WNC Seabee]

We are required to register handguns in Michigan.

No, no, no...."registration" is not legal! It's a Safety Check wherein they record your name, address, gun make, model and SN...it's all for Safety, you know, for the children.

Oh, and the $$. When I "safety checked" my first handgun (Eaton County MI), I had to pay $5 or $10 to the nice clerk who barely glanced at the gun before handing me my "safety certification" card. ~1993

 

[Kirbyc]

I think I've read all of this thread and am wondering about another 'worm' getting out of this can. If the original owner of the gun was paid by his insurance company for the gun wouldn't they have first dibbs on the pistol?

 

[Chisel Head]

I'd send a polite letter to the original owner complimenting the gun and explaining how you were taking good care of it, cleaning and polishing it with your buffing wheel daily. Old folks usually have a soft spot for good honest boys. Leave your adress and telephone number. He might, then, get in touch and you can win enough confidence to coherse him into leaving the gun for you in his will. Especially, if his own kids turned out rotten

 

[Oyeboten]

Well, I finally got to talk with a guy in the Walton County Florida Sheriff's Office.

Really nice people.

There is presently no listing of this Revolver in the 'NCIC' and no one can find any record of it in any database or outstanding/Open case File.

Florida told me that this arm was not long ago sold to so-and-so, the FFL I got it from, in an Auction they held.

By Statute, Arms which sit in their evidence Vault for more than six months, become the Property of the State of Florida, who in effect, directs respective Sherrif's Offices to Auction them off, regardless of any provenance.


No idea in all this where the priginal Owner was, if they were even able to contact him prior to the lapse of the Six Month time window.


Florida in summary says looks like it was cleared from the system, but can not tell when, and, they will be glad to see me get my Revolver back, since no info exists to suggest any other disposition is appropriate.

Las Vegas Metro does not know where the Revolver is, if they sent it to Florida yet, or, it they are still sitting on it, but, they say the same thing, that if it is in fact now a non-issue of a lingering 'NCIC' listing which has been removed already, they are glad to see me have it returned to me.

I do not understand all of this, so merely repeating as was told to me variously.

How can a cleared case linger in 'NCIC' when 'NCIC' cases expire unless updated?

Anyway...

So...that's where it stands.

No one I talked with can figure out where the Revolver presently is, but, everyone feels like there is now no reason afterall for it to be sent to Florida.

Florida says if they have it or if it in transit, they will gladly send it back.

Florida is going to be talking with LV Metro, and, vice versa, as I interested them both to talk with one-another on this, and gave each of them each-other's telephone numbers and contact people names, and both seemed sincerely interested to talk with one-another.


So...we'll see...

 

[essayons21]

Ah the well oiled gears of government.

I can't wait until they take over more stuff.

Anyway, glad to see you are (most likely) getting your gun back.

 

[Trebor]

No, no, no...."registration" is not legal! It's a Safety Check wherein they record your name, address, gun make, model and SN...it's all for Safety, you know, for the children.

Sounds like you've been out of Michigan for awhile.

They changed the law in 2008 and now admit that it's "Registration" up front. They did away with the "Safety Inspection" at the same time.

I wrote about it here

It's time to eliminiate handgun registration in Michigan