I dont hear much about HK around here.

[New_comer]

My USP9F works for me...


Heavy DA trigger, unusual mag release (the fastest there is, period! ), chunkiness, rough grip, twin recoil spring, 3-dot sights, and all


And there's nothing anybody here can do to change my mind about it!!!

 

[Doc]

1) You guys actually think about COST??

I see on the photo pages THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF GUNS!!! If you guys think ONE HK is too expensive, I am FLOORED!

2) I think there is too little time,
and TOO MANY GREAT GUNS to actually:
a> own them all
b> shoot them all
c> shoot them all WELL
d> afford the ammo to shoot them all well!

3) I WANT a compact USP 45 in ?variant 7 (the DAO) for less than the cost of my first glock which had night sights...any for sale??

 

[Doc]

one other thought

cars are real expensive, and we buy/lease them for 2-5 years, then get something new.

why not BUY a gun you think you like,
shoot it and if you dont love it,
SELL it and buy another??

(Remember I don't think guns should hold their value or appreciate any more than used cars do)

Just for the record my cars have included:

Miata, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Explorer and F-150

 

[Bobarino]

obviously someone who has never driven a BMW. every car has some problem or another. ya just can't explain it . you just have to try it for yourself, and until you go ripping up a twisty mountain road in an M3, you really shouldn't judge the car. BMW's are driver's machines. to compare it to a Honda deosn't even make sense. they are not even in the same category. i had WAY more fun in a E36 coupe than i had in my last car, a Porsche 928GT. even though the Porsche was much faster, the BMW is just more fun to drive. not sure how, it just is.

its just like the HK thing. people bashing them whilst uninformed about them. i had reservations about buying an HK at first, because i was hung up on the looks of it. its ugly. the sig P-229 is my idea of a very visually pleasing gun. but i had a bad experience with one and went with the one that i had a good experience with. the HK compact. i certainly didn't care about the name on the side, the looks, or anything tactical. i just wanted a gun that functioned right every time. one that i could bet my life on. cost is not an option when it comes to saving my posterior. i had no idea i would be labeled a tactical poseur or anything of the sort until i started reading this board. oh well, it happens everywhere i guess. there are those that swear that the Beech Bonanza is the BEST plane there is and those that make fun of them for spending too much money of a plane when a Bellanca Super Viking would do the same thing for less. whatever.

my H&K is better than your Honda!!!!

Bobby

 

[agtman]

"I dont hear much about HK around here."


That's because the "sticker shock" from Teutonic polymer always leaves one speechless.

 

[Tamara]

Who is more likely to complain about wind noise from the door seals in a J.D. Power survey, a 22-year-old single mom who just bought a Honda Corollentra, or a 53-year-old accountant who just dropped a load on a Jagbenz AudiM5?

I never said the USP was too expensive. That'd be a little hypocritical, since I've dumped far more than the cost of a USP on more than one gun (some of which were other HK products).

All I'm saying is, speaking for only me and myself, I like to see where the money went.

I can see it in a P7. It's a limited production gun, with parts milled from forged billet unobtainium, case-hardened 'til they're harder than woodpecker lips, built into a gun with more moving parts than a Ferrari formula one engine, and fitted to tolerances that'd make NASA engineers wake up screaming in the middle of the night.

I can see it in my Springfield Pro. The parts list reads like a who's who of cost-no-object 1911 bits: Nowlin, S&A, Videcki, Wilson, Novak, Birdsong. (And of course cost was no object; the guys who spec'd the gun out weren't spending their own money, they were spending yours and mine. ) Then the whole thing was lovingly hand-assembled and hand-fitted by a trained craftsman.

Personally, I just don't see it in any plastic gun. Walther, SIG and Glock all offer top-notch polymer pistols in the Five Bills range; only HK asks more.

But you know what? If the USP is the right gun for you, then it is worth more. To you. Just not to me.

Me saying "I think a USP is overpriced" is not the same thing as me saying "I think your USP is junk". Besides, y'all would probably think I paid way too dang much for my last Improved I-frame S&W .22LR, but I think I got a great deal.

Different strokes...

 

[duckfoot]

It's all a touch and feel thing people. Don't spread the bad vibes on the net. Might infect the rest of the nation.

Gun's are cool

People are hot









I'm cool

how bout you?




got a usp .45 too

 

[Boats]

I object to the attempts to equivalate a USP to a BMW M series car. The P7 would be the M-series. The garden variety USP is that low-end 318 hatchback for the wannabes. It has the nameplate, but none of the materials, scarceness, cachet, or performance to be worthy of the awe (and premium payment) of anyone who knows anything about cars.

If "Made in Germany" automatically meant "the best" we'd at least have an explanation of things such as sauerkraut and industrial music, but we don't and those things still suck despite their origin.

How good could the USP be when the company is rolling out the very much overlapping P2000?

 

[surfinUSA]

My department has approved semi autos in 9mm, 40, and 45, from HK, SIG, Beretta, S&W and Ruger.

The ones that go down the most are the most expensive, the HK.

Followed much to my dismay (as I carry one daily and have fortunately never had a problem with either of mine) is the second most expensive, the SIG.

The one that never goes down is the Beretta 9mm (which I carried and liked alot before the SIG 239 40S&W and 220 were approved). Consequently, our firearms staff is attempting to have the department standardize on Beretta 9mms.

 

[GitSome45]

HK...?

That da*n "pointy ended slide release" on USP models...

Not to mention those &*^$#% "Proof Marks" that look like Elk antlers...:banghead:

(actually never owned an HK, probably would love shooting / owning it...)

OH - WELL, I`m too busy JUSTIFYING why I never bought one in all these years...

Howard

 

[webley455]

I say Model 28, You say Python.....

 

[GitSome45]

I LOVED my 4" Stainless COLT PYTHON...

 

[Mike Irwin]

I'm ALWAYS up for a shoot, Kirk!

Give me a couple of days prior notice, and maybe we can put something together with the locals.

 

[CZF]

Seems like a pretty emotiuonal topic. I never quite understood the
appeal of the H&K products.

Unlike Tamara, i think the sun both rises and sets on the CZ75
and P-35 Browning.

I also think it is bad taste to belittle someone for his/her choice
in guns, as you might disagree, but should respect their freedom
to choose.

I can remember the P9S in .45. I thought it unique, but also
strange in a way compared to my 1911s and Hi-Powers.
The P7 looks cool, but never pointed like a 'real gun' for me.


When they came out with the USP it was promising. Having
plastic hammers (could snap off) and triggers..USPs feel kinda big and clumbsy in my opinion. However, I do think the H&K P2000 will be a hard gun for many to turn down. looks to be the optimal package for duty/defense, but so is a PCR or P-01 for a lot
less money. CZ is just as big a name as H&K is..outside the
states.

 

[dude]

my only auto pistol is a P7
............others have come and gone.

A $239 IMI Baby Eagle Compact 9mm is the only other pistol that has worked almost as well for me so it is not a $$$ issue.

 

[KMKeller]

Will do Mike. It'd be nice to round up a few folks and make a day of it.

 

[CZ-75]

my H&K is better than your Honda!!!!

Why? The USP and Civic are both appliances.

BTW, since I don't own a Honda (at least under that name), it damn well ought to be.

obviously someone who has never driven a BMW.

Just Acuras, for the most part. When I can afford to p*** money down the drain and pay the dealer big bucks to reset the oil change LEDs and just, overall, spend a lot of money at the service dept., I'll think about it. I could probably get into a mid-level 3-series w/o much trouble, but considering that a 30K+ car comes w/ VINYL seats standard, I keep thinking that I can get more for my money from Japan. Lancer Evo or WRX STi, here I come.

Who is more likely to complain about wind noise from the door seals in a J.D. Power survey, a 22-year-old single mom who just bought a Honda Corollentra, or a 53-year-old accountant who just dropped a load on a Jagbenz AudiM5?

I'd say both, at least when the seals are disintegrating and getting carbon black all over the interior. And, dare I say it, no Honda, Toyota, etc. would get out the door with this problem.

Mine has 160K....my old one had 350K....and it ran great when I sold it.

And a '94 Honda Accord EX has 1.4 million miles on the clock. It isn't much to find a Honda with 300K+ on the odometer. I got rid of my last Acura with 200K+ on the odometer.

Personally, from experience, I despise the Volvo 240 series in particular and Volvo in general. Worst car I ever owned. Glad you like yours.

bet ya think your Ford Pinto is better than a Chevy Vega too...

The Cosworth Vega GT "coulda been a contenda" (for that era) if they didn't have a poorly designed front sub-frame that caused them to crab-walk down the road unless a body shop welded in reinforcement. Or had the General decided that putting liners in Al block engines was a good idea.

Now, of course, they're using plastic washers in their transmissions and my father found this out the hard way when his Olds lost its tranny 1K outside of warranty. No fool like an Olds fool. Can't break 50 years of habit, though he did manage to buy a Pathfinder for a brief and shining interlude.

The Pinto, BTW, will never be anything more than a Molotov cocktail on wheels.



Now, back to guns, particularly the USP

I can see it in a P7. It's a limited production gun, with parts milled from forged billet unobtainium, case-hardened 'til they're harder than woodpecker lips, built into a gun with more moving parts than a Ferrari formula one engine, and fitted to tolerances that'd make NASA engineers wake up screaming in the middle of the night.

I agree. I will buy one some day, perhaps next year.

Personally, I just don't see it in any plastic gun. Walther, SIG and Glock all offer top-notch polymer pistols in the Five Bills range; only HK asks more.

Likewise, I concur. I would say that a case could be made for the Expert, but $1200 or so is still too much.

 

[surfinUSA]

CZ75, I don't own a BMW but I've driven them and they are everything they claim to be.

One thing that they have over Acura and Honda (which are great cars in their own right) for that matter, is free maintenance, BMW doesn't cost a dime, for the life of the warranty (4 years I believe) which begins to add up pretty quickly, at least at Acura, who does charge for maintenance.

You don't want to see either of these cars after the warranty is over, as the price of admission in either service facility is through the roof.

 

[Stabby]

Acuras are the HK of the auto world. Way to overpriced with millions of brainwashed minions. (and I like HK products , but I wont dilute myself)

I mean acura doesnt even make a RWD (oh right the nsx, I'll tear that piece apart in a sec) vehicle how can you even talk about performance? do you undersatand the torque steer and understeer physically inherent to FWD architechure? Not to mention they DONT even have a dedicated performance division (like M, AMG, SVT). They dont even offer a V8 in any of their cars. I will cede that the CL -S might be a half decent car if it was RWD. and the NSX hmm lets see, costs clost to 90k, has less than 300 hp and ft/lbs and even though it's engine is mid mounted it has WORSE weight distribuion than the front engine Z06. so I guess you pay that extra that 40k premium over a Z06 for less performance in handling, low end, and top end and I guess you plastic interrior fits together better than the one in the vette.

I'm not a BMW fan but at least they make their cars RWD and design them from the ground up with perfromance in mind, instead of just modifying an economy car with larger engines over years of its production. Face it if Acura had real performance in mind they would design a compotent rwd chassis.

Dont forget you beloved WRX is still built on a ten year old chassis with a cheap interrior and extremely questionable styling. IT does have well balenced performance and some cool stuff (driver being able to squirt water into the intercooler, and changing the torque dist) but calling a vehicle in the 25-30K range affordable is a little bit of a strech.

I like old American cars, sure the gaps might be a little bigger than in your Acura, but I can easilt get REAL performance, like 500+ ft/lbs for under 10k a lot of different ways. Oh yeah and I can work on it out back.

Fanatacism both for or against anything is just retarded. The Acura is a reasonable vehicle (if you can live with your self buying something thats FWD and has trac control, I personally couldn't) but just dont pretend it's the be all and end all of Autodom because you have one.

I mean I really like my Big ol Buick but I'm at least I'm realistic about it. The reasons I like it are because I wanted a big V8 RWD sedan that with a minor amount of work and money I could have running, in a straight line at least, with other full size sedans (Impala SS, Marauder, S500). That and the fact that I like a car that is unique, I never see any other 225's on the road. and I am very content with my current price/performance ratio. Perfectly reliable too with a newly rebuilt engine and tranny.


Acura and HK both make a product that ultimately accomplish their goals effictively, and their owners seem to be proud of them. I dont see anything inherently wrong with that. It's not overpriced if its what you want and you can afford it. However I personally would have a hard time calling myself a real car or shooting enthusiast if I ONLY owned an Acura or HK usp. (P7 or socom maybe a different story)

 

[CB900F]

H'mmm;

I've been reading this thread with interest. Learned a few things, both about the H&K's and about the posters.

I bought my USPc about 6 years ago. The primary reason I bought it was that it was THE most left hand friendly semi available at the time. I ordered in variant 2 from a local shop & did not pay in the $700's for it.

It also fit my hand much better than the Glock. I've since run both factory & handloads through it with no problems. Zero, as in none at all, ever. If you want to handload lead, as I did, all I can say is use either Ranier or Berry's copper washed. Sorry, obsessive types, I don't keep round counts.

About a year ago I got the ambi control lever retro-fitted by H&K.
The service was at the price quoted & the turn around was quick.

Somebody should check the dictionary for the meaning of 'pre-emptive'. I mean, a poseur might mis-use the term.
Snrk! 900F

 

[curt]

well i don't know anything about this Hk vs 1911 crap but i did find out that i like Boats...in a totally manly way of course.

There's a few folks whose posts i like to read because they are: 1. know what they are talking about 2. they don't have a clue what they are talking about 3. they just write well 4. or they're just flaming as#holes. You know who you are (well actually probably don't).

 

[DrDremel]

WOW, my post was an observation on the different types of HK owners. Looks like I was right on as I see the posts before and after it. I never ripped on the USP but some of this really is funny.

 

[CZ-75]

I can easilt get REAL performance, like 500+ ft/lbs for under 10k

Straight line performance only.

I mean acura doesnt even make a RWD

That's been SUCH a disadvantage to RealTime Acura and their Type Rs when winning the past 3 or so Touring Car championships against RWD BMWs. Oh, and they have less HP and torque to boot.

No one is questioning BMWs handle, but it's more of a semi-practical extravagance, rather than a car you can trust as a daily driver that won't leave you stranded and lighten your wallet.

Way to overpriced with millions of brainwashed minions.

Right

That's why they come with goodies like HID headlamps, heated memory seats and mirrors, Bose stereo standard for 30K and BMW charges for comparable options, despite a 5-10K price differential before options.

Sub "BMW" for "Acura" in that statement, and you've got it.

Fanatacism both for or against anything is just retarded. The Acura is a reasonable vehicle (if you can live with your self buying something thats FWD and has trac control, I personally couldn't) but just dont pretend it's the be all and end all of Autodom because you have one.

That's why I looked at Mazda, Nissan, VW, and Toyota before buying another.

FWIW, the miata is one othe best handling platforms out there and turns in some of the best lap times at many SCCA events against way more powerful cars.

I never see any other 225's on the road.

Hard to take you seriously when you drive deuce-and-a-quarter.

 

[Mal H]

Well, it looks like the H&K "discussion" has been pretty much played out. Now the discussions are centered on which car is the most tactical, so, that being off-topic, I'll close this one down.