I dont hear much about HK around here.
- Thread starter arinvolvo
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Bobarino
member
Arinvolvo,
and just like that, the reason for lack of H&K posts rears its ugly head. KMKeller has is right on the nose. my $700 plastic pistol makes me a tactical poseurs. and at least one person ALWAYS makes sure they tell me so. its over hyped, its over priced, its not THAT good, blah, blah, blah.
i'm a subscriber and poster on HKPRO also, and the people there are no different than the people here on THR. in fact i see a few other people that post in both places. non of whom are SWAT team wanna-be's. all of whom just enjoy a certain type of weapon.
H&K's are good, quality and yes expensive pistols. so are Sigs, and a host of others. i really don't know why HK and their owners get the cold shoulder. there is no GOOD reason other than people being closed minded. if one doesn't like them, fine. you don't have to. i don't preach HK as being the worlds best gun. its my favorite and i'll let you know that, but i certainly don't bash 1911's and Glocks just because i don't care for either one.
everyone has the right to express their opinions though, and you know what they say about opinions. "opinions are like a**h***s, everybody has one and their ususally full of ****"
Bobby
and just like that, the reason for lack of H&K posts rears its ugly head. KMKeller has is right on the nose. my $700 plastic pistol makes me a tactical poseurs. and at least one person ALWAYS makes sure they tell me so. its over hyped, its over priced, its not THAT good, blah, blah, blah.
i'm a subscriber and poster on HKPRO also, and the people there are no different than the people here on THR. in fact i see a few other people that post in both places. non of whom are SWAT team wanna-be's. all of whom just enjoy a certain type of weapon.
H&K's are good, quality and yes expensive pistols. so are Sigs, and a host of others. i really don't know why HK and their owners get the cold shoulder. there is no GOOD reason other than people being closed minded. if one doesn't like them, fine. you don't have to. i don't preach HK as being the worlds best gun. its my favorite and i'll let you know that, but i certainly don't bash 1911's and Glocks just because i don't care for either one.
everyone has the right to express their opinions though, and you know what they say about opinions. "opinions are like a**h***s, everybody has one and their ususally full of ****"
Bobby
gudel
Member
i have a USP. nobody talks about it. this is a good thing because i have not seen problems with finish/reliability etc. either that, it's so expensive nobody really can afford it. either way, it makes HK very unique weapons.
people trash HK maybe because it's so expensive, they can't afford to buy it. instead, they talk bad about it. it's just simply jealousy. as far as quality, this is a very nice gun. take that from the person who actually owns the gun, not just heard from other people.
people trash HK maybe because it's so expensive, they can't afford to buy it. instead, they talk bad about it. it's just simply jealousy. as far as quality, this is a very nice gun. take that from the person who actually owns the gun, not just heard from other people.
Look, my issue is this. Criticize the guns, I don't care and frankly that's your perogative. That's what this board is for, discussing the pros and cons of the firearms, their benefits and such.
But that's not what's taking place here is it? What we're talking about here is running down the people who own HKs based on nothing other than the fact that they chose to purchase a specific weapon. And quite frankly I don't make such assumptions about others and I don't much care to have others make such assumptions about me.
But that's not what's taking place here is it? What we're talking about here is running down the people who own HKs based on nothing other than the fact that they chose to purchase a specific weapon. And quite frankly I don't make such assumptions about others and I don't much care to have others make such assumptions about me.
Darrin
Member
In all seriousness, I thought the "hype" was over Glocks.
Darrin
Member
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cslinger
Member
It's no different then Ford or Chevy......Porsche or Ferrari........AMD or INTEL.....and the list goes on.
The fact is we have so many excellent products to choose from these day that the real complaints tend to be specific to an individual or very small in number.
HKs are great guns. Pricy yes, but great guns.
SIGS are great guns (Better then HK but I digress
) Also pricy.
Glocks are great guns......
Springfield makes great guns.........
Ruger makes great guns...............................
All the big name players make great guns that have pros and cons that either endear or demonize themselves to various users.
I don't care for Glocks Safe Action Trigger system. I still think Glocks are some of the best combat guns around.
I really like the control and triggers on SIGs but there is something to a nice 1911 too.
The reason we don't agree is because none of these guns SUCK. We all tend to agree that Ravins and Lorcins are bad.....why? Because they actually do suck.
I personally think HK USPs are over priced but I happen to own a SIG 220 Stainless and a HK P7. Those were not overpriced at all no sir not one bit.
There is no reason to get into a hissy over my gun is better than your gun. Every brand has it's tactical posers. HK is seen that way because of their marketing which has been brilliant and sold alot of product for them too.
Can't we all just get along...........ducks for cover grabs closest uber tactical overpriced handgun he can get his hands on.....oooo a P7.
Chris
The fact is we have so many excellent products to choose from these day that the real complaints tend to be specific to an individual or very small in number.
HKs are great guns. Pricy yes, but great guns.
SIGS are great guns (Better then HK but I digress
) Also pricy.Glocks are great guns......
Springfield makes great guns.........
Ruger makes great guns...............................
All the big name players make great guns that have pros and cons that either endear or demonize themselves to various users.
I don't care for Glocks Safe Action Trigger system. I still think Glocks are some of the best combat guns around.
I really like the control and triggers on SIGs but there is something to a nice 1911 too.
The reason we don't agree is because none of these guns SUCK. We all tend to agree that Ravins and Lorcins are bad.....why? Because they actually do suck.
I personally think HK USPs are over priced but I happen to own a SIG 220 Stainless and a HK P7. Those were not overpriced at all no sir not one bit.
There is no reason to get into a hissy over my gun is better than your gun. Every brand has it's tactical posers. HK is seen that way because of their marketing which has been brilliant and sold alot of product for them too.
Can't we all just get along...........ducks for cover grabs closest uber tactical overpriced handgun he can get his hands on.....oooo a P7.
Chris
Tamara
Senior Member
KMKeller,
After careful thought, I have to point out that the post from Mssr. Boats (though sorely lacking in timing) was #1) Funny, and #2) Not necessarily directed at you or any other particular USP owner.
I have heard plenty of USP owners extolling the Ultimate Uncompromising Tacticality of their pistols versus those cheapo Brand-X guns (Glocks) or fragile unreliable antiques (1911's) over the years. Frequently from folks whose "Hostile Environment" finish gets exposed to an environment no more "Hostile" than that found in their range bag between the trunk of their car and the lanes of the Indoor Pistol Palace. "Ain't you gonna tote that USP?"
"What?!? Do you know how much this thing cost? It's my baby!"
"So? It's a plastic service pistol, not some rare, one-of-four-built-behind-the-iron-curtain, Einschleimer Blastopistole."
Of course, then you have the "Glock: Perfection" crowd, who loudly proclaim that not only can their pet pistol be run over with a truck, but "It's the preferred choice of every cop between Albaquerque and Ulan Bator."
"Are you a cop?"
"No, but I do have a police scanner in my house..."
Lastly, you have the 1911 fiends, who believe that the design for the One True Pistol was handed down to John Moses Browning by God, etched on stone tablets.
"Robby Leatham is winning matches with this 2000-year-old design to this very day!" (This is usually stated by someone who has never even watched an IPSC match, let alone participated in one...)
Folks, lighten the heck up: These are pistols, not religious denominations. If you're looking for the one true path to enlightenment between the covers of American Handgunner, then you are setting yourself up to be sorely disappointed.
After careful thought, I have to point out that the post from Mssr. Boats (though sorely lacking in timing) was #1) Funny, and #2) Not necessarily directed at you or any other particular USP owner.
I have heard plenty of USP owners extolling the Ultimate Uncompromising Tacticality of their pistols versus those cheapo Brand-X guns (Glocks) or fragile unreliable antiques (1911's) over the years. Frequently from folks whose "Hostile Environment" finish gets exposed to an environment no more "Hostile" than that found in their range bag between the trunk of their car and the lanes of the Indoor Pistol Palace. "Ain't you gonna tote that USP?"
"What?!? Do you know how much this thing cost? It's my baby!"
"So? It's a plastic service pistol, not some rare, one-of-four-built-behind-the-iron-curtain, Einschleimer Blastopistole."
Of course, then you have the "Glock: Perfection" crowd, who loudly proclaim that not only can their pet pistol be run over with a truck, but "It's the preferred choice of every cop between Albaquerque and Ulan Bator."
"Are you a cop?"
"No, but I do have a police scanner in my house..."
Lastly, you have the 1911 fiends, who believe that the design for the One True Pistol was handed down to John Moses Browning by God, etched on stone tablets.
"Robby Leatham is winning matches with this 2000-year-old design to this very day!" (This is usually stated by someone who has never even watched an IPSC match, let alone participated in one...)
Folks, lighten the heck up: These are pistols, not religious denominations. If you're looking for the one true path to enlightenment between the covers of American Handgunner, then you are setting yourself up to be sorely disappointed.
cslinger
Member
Not to mention that it would be mighty boring. I mean I am one of those crazy gun owners who likes both semi-autos and GASP!!! outdated, outmoded, obsolete revolvers. For that matter I have an evil black rifle or two along side of some rifles with.....now sit down Skunk, real wood on them.
Chris
Quote:
"Clock is ticking: the last time someone started a thread just to bash some members of THR for their choice in firearms, it got shut down pretty quick. Tick-tock."
LarryW....I am sorry that you think this thread was designed to bash HK....I started this thread with no intent of that at all...I just was wondering why I never hear anyone mention anything about their USPs or the cool new tac light they got for their HK...
I do hear about P7s every once in a while, but the mention of other HK firearms is seldom heard....It was just a pang of curiosity that I had...
And I have nothing against HK at all....I think they are fine weapons, probably some of the finest...They are not my style, but I am in no way bashing them, or anyone that owns one.
However, I now see why the subject matter is not brought up...people fight like girls about it...so naive am I, I havent been on thos board THAT long...I am sure I still have much more to learn.
"Clock is ticking: the last time someone started a thread just to bash some members of THR for their choice in firearms, it got shut down pretty quick. Tick-tock."
LarryW....I am sorry that you think this thread was designed to bash HK....I started this thread with no intent of that at all...I just was wondering why I never hear anyone mention anything about their USPs or the cool new tac light they got for their HK...
I do hear about P7s every once in a while, but the mention of other HK firearms is seldom heard....It was just a pang of curiosity that I had...
And I have nothing against HK at all....I think they are fine weapons, probably some of the finest...They are not my style, but I am in no way bashing them, or anyone that owns one.
However, I now see why the subject matter is not brought up...people fight like girls about it...so naive am I, I havent been on thos board THAT long...I am sure I still have much more to learn.
I think you hit it.
There are other guns out there, of similar construction, that are nearly as good for less money. There are other guns out there that are as good for similar money that aren't made of plastic. Plastic itself isn't the problem, but the concept behind using plastic - cost savings.
Best I can figure is that snob appeal plays a part in the decision to spend $700 or so on a plastic frame gun. It isn't like you're getting a work of art or fine craftsmanship with polymer-frame pistols, so the justification for a higher price point seems lacking, particularly when SIG can make an all-metal gun of equal or better quality for roughly the same price.
I'll probably buy an Expert one of these days, but I know that I am paying for a name as much as performance. That gets harder to justify as you go down the model line toward more pedestrian HK offerings. Closest thing I can think of like it is the fools who buy a Civic-size Mercedes C-class so they can drive a with three-pointed star on the hood for around $35K, despite the fact the Honda would provide greater reliability for half the price and there are better performing, more reliable cars in the same price range.
Tamara
Senior Member
Not the best of comparisons. "Luxury", "Quality", and "Size" are not synonymous.
caz223
Member
One of the reasons that H&Ks are expensive has a lot to do with import taxes.
Sigs are (For the most part) assembled in the US by foreign made parts. (Frames on sig pros are made in switzerland.)
They ship the parts over, declare the wholesale value of the parts, assemble them here, and sell them cheaper.
They are, of course fine weapons. I have a sig pro, and it is certainly a good example of craftsmanship and engineering.
The H&Ks are currently designed, assembled, and tested in Germany, and shipped, as a finished product, to the US.
As a result, they carry a much higher import tax.
The problem is, that isn't the only reason.
Sigs are (For the most part) assembled in the US by foreign made parts. (Frames on sig pros are made in switzerland.)
They ship the parts over, declare the wholesale value of the parts, assemble them here, and sell them cheaper.
They are, of course fine weapons. I have a sig pro, and it is certainly a good example of craftsmanship and engineering.
The H&Ks are currently designed, assembled, and tested in Germany, and shipped, as a finished product, to the US.
As a result, they carry a much higher import tax.
The problem is, that isn't the only reason.
Tam,
When considering this particular thread, you're correct. But when considering that everytime an HK thread is started, the same tripe shows, the historical content is somewhat different.
Again, I don't make broad characterizations and I don't expect them from others. I don't claim that women who wear tight clothes are sluts, I don't claim that african americans are rapists and drug dealers and I don't claim that people who shoot 1911s are dinosaurs. Those types of broad characterizations are beneath me and I was taught to show people common respect. HK owners are tactical poseurs is just such a broad characterization.
When considering this particular thread, you're correct. But when considering that everytime an HK thread is started, the same tripe shows, the historical content is somewhat different.
Again, I don't make broad characterizations and I don't expect them from others. I don't claim that women who wear tight clothes are sluts, I don't claim that african americans are rapists and drug dealers and I don't claim that people who shoot 1911s are dinosaurs. Those types of broad characterizations are beneath me and I was taught to show people common respect. HK owners are tactical poseurs is just such a broad characterization.
gudel
Member
why is it that people bitch about HK's prices?
i don't hear no one griping about mercedez benz S600 series prices or never heard people complaining how SIG is expensive in the $600 - $700 range either.
the bottom line: if you can't afford it because it's expensive, don't buy it, and don't complain why it's so expensive.
i don't hear no one griping about mercedez benz S600 series prices or never heard people complaining how SIG is expensive in the $600 - $700 range either.
the bottom line: if you can't afford it because it's expensive, don't buy it, and don't complain why it's so expensive.
DrDremel
Member
Having owned an HK USP, HK91, and fired at least 3000 rounds from an MP5, I feel I can talk about them semi-objectively. HK firearms derive a lot of their price form exchange rates. Also the 89 and 94 bans pushed the prices on these firearms up due to a false rarity. This has been around long enough that many of the younger shooters equate a $2000+ rifle to mean that they must be the best because they are commanding such a high price. Then those same shooters surmise that if their rifles are so good then the handguns must also make you a tactical ninja. That explains the Ninja wannabee’s obsession with HK products. It seems to have infected the police as well. If a big department such as LA or NY adopts a firearm, all the little Barney Fifes want to have the same stuff. It is almost self promoting. Kind of like the rarity of diamaonds.
There are also shooters that buy their firearms because they like that particular model. This tends to be more with HK pistols due to their non-banned status. Sure there are still some that worship only the pistols but for the most part they are the exception. The non-ninja tactical warrior pistol shooters can be broken down even more.
The USP crown usually like the cocked and locked feature but want a polymer pistol. They are also in large part 1911a1 fans. They want a light, pistol but like the similarity to the 1911 controls.
The P series squeeze cockers. These are very unique firearms. Usually people either hate them or love them. Some that love then claim them to be the best pistol ever designed. Most of the rest, like them. Of those that don’t like them, some hate them, others simply don’t like the totally different workings. Similar to those that don’t like Sigs simply because the levers are backward from all other designs.
HK products are usually good, although in my mind over priced. By the way, I fall into the 1911 fan (but not a 1911 is better than anything ever produced and everything that ever will be type of guy) that likes the similarity of the USP controls. I don’t hate the P series squeeze cockers but don’t like the totally different feel. I also dislike SIGs for the same reason, but feel that both are very good designs. My only gripe with the USP series is the polygon rifling which does not work well with lead bullets.
The USP handguns are very reliable, being one of the handguns that you can’t go wrong with.
There are also those that like the HK rifles without being Tactical Ninja Cammando Wariors. They tend to be interested in the Cetme and HK clones and want to actually fire their rifles, something less and less owners of these weapons like to do.
I also think that many of the HK commando wanabees are into collecting Airsoft guns as well. That is a different topc that I have yet to understand, A BB replica of a real gun that cost more than most real guns. And it isn’t even real BB gun as the BBs are plastic.
Next time I’ll get into the holy Glock.
By the way, half of this is a joke, but then again we all know that HK owners can't take a joke, right?
There are also shooters that buy their firearms because they like that particular model. This tends to be more with HK pistols due to their non-banned status. Sure there are still some that worship only the pistols but for the most part they are the exception. The non-ninja tactical warrior pistol shooters can be broken down even more.
The USP crown usually like the cocked and locked feature but want a polymer pistol. They are also in large part 1911a1 fans. They want a light, pistol but like the similarity to the 1911 controls.
The P series squeeze cockers. These are very unique firearms. Usually people either hate them or love them. Some that love then claim them to be the best pistol ever designed. Most of the rest, like them. Of those that don’t like them, some hate them, others simply don’t like the totally different workings. Similar to those that don’t like Sigs simply because the levers are backward from all other designs.
HK products are usually good, although in my mind over priced. By the way, I fall into the 1911 fan (but not a 1911 is better than anything ever produced and everything that ever will be type of guy) that likes the similarity of the USP controls. I don’t hate the P series squeeze cockers but don’t like the totally different feel. I also dislike SIGs for the same reason, but feel that both are very good designs. My only gripe with the USP series is the polygon rifling which does not work well with lead bullets.
The USP handguns are very reliable, being one of the handguns that you can’t go wrong with.
There are also those that like the HK rifles without being Tactical Ninja Cammando Wariors. They tend to be interested in the Cetme and HK clones and want to actually fire their rifles, something less and less owners of these weapons like to do.
I also think that many of the HK commando wanabees are into collecting Airsoft guns as well. That is a different topc that I have yet to understand, A BB replica of a real gun that cost more than most real guns. And it isn’t even real BB gun as the BBs are plastic.
Next time I’ll get into the holy Glock.
By the way, half of this is a joke, but then again we all know that HK owners can't take a joke, right?
I own a 45 compact that I bought for no better reason than...I didn't have one! (happens to me a lot)
I am still forming an opinion, but so far do not believe it is the ultimate pistol....so far I like my 1911 and my G36 better.
I think some of the "Mall-Ninja" thinking is right on...but like everyhting else...does not apply to everyone.
Or maybe it is that cool threaded barrel they have on the tactical...or is it the expert...I forget.
I am still forming an opinion, but so far do not believe it is the ultimate pistol....so far I like my 1911 and my G36 better.
I think some of the "Mall-Ninja" thinking is right on...but like everyhting else...does not apply to everyone.
Or maybe it is that cool threaded barrel they have on the tactical...or is it the expert...I forget.
Bingo Dr!
You've got two kinds of HK owner - those who care about the form, exemplified by the Mall Ninja wannabe tactical Tactical TACTICAL type, and those who care about the function.
The Ninja's would buy them if they were twice as expensive (hence the proliferation of the airsofts).
The functioners are the ones you see carrying USPs daily - and are just as devout as the 1911 / Glock junkies. They want a pistol that works how they want, period, and they are willing to pay for that function and no more (or they'd be buying 1911's from race gun shops). They don't care about form - they'd abandon the USP tomorrow if something better came along.
As said previously, price is the big barrier on people buying HK's. That's going to be eliminated soon. Then watch out.
Kevin
You've got two kinds of HK owner - those who care about the form, exemplified by the Mall Ninja wannabe tactical Tactical TACTICAL type, and those who care about the function.
The Ninja's would buy them if they were twice as expensive (hence the proliferation of the airsofts).
The functioners are the ones you see carrying USPs daily - and are just as devout as the 1911 / Glock junkies. They want a pistol that works how they want, period, and they are willing to pay for that function and no more (or they'd be buying 1911's from race gun shops). They don't care about form - they'd abandon the USP tomorrow if something better came along.
As said previously, price is the big barrier on people buying HK's. That's going to be eliminated soon. Then watch out.
Kevin
I own many makes of guns. I don't care what anyone says about them, they each fulfill a specific need for me personally.
Of all the guns I own, I currently use a USP .45 Compact as my home defense pistol. I chose this particular weapon to defend myself because I shoot it extremely well and I trust its reliability and effectiveness. I paid over $700 for it, and to me it was money well spent. That's all that matters.
Go ahead and call me a poseur if you want to.
The fanboy syndrome seems to be deeply rooted in the human psyche. Whether the topic is cars, guns, video game systems, computers, religion, etc., etc. Some people just need to believe that their particular choice is "best" and any other choice is inferior.
Of all the guns I own, I currently use a USP .45 Compact as my home defense pistol. I chose this particular weapon to defend myself because I shoot it extremely well and I trust its reliability and effectiveness. I paid over $700 for it, and to me it was money well spent. That's all that matters.
Go ahead and call me a poseur if you want to.
The fanboy syndrome seems to be deeply rooted in the human psyche. Whether the topic is cars, guns, video game systems, computers, religion, etc., etc. Some people just need to believe that their particular choice is "best" and any other choice is inferior.
Wildalaska
member
I own an HK P7 (no not those Johnny come lately M8s which are simply NJ state Police modified clones of a real HK squueeze cocker), Colt 1911, BHP, Walther P99, Glock, S&W
Why should we attack each others choices of the above, when we can poke fun at Bersas, Ravens, Dalys, FEGs, Makorovs etc instead
WildmygunsbiggerthanyoursisAlaska
Why should we attack each others choices of the above, when we can poke fun at Bersas, Ravens, Dalys, FEGs, Makorovs etc instead
WildmygunsbiggerthanyoursisAlaska
BerettaNut92
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