I have been reading about M1A kabooms...

[SilentStalker]

I have recently been reading about M1A Kabooms lately and this is just scary. How likely is it for this to happen to any rifle or handgun? Are these cases of reloaded ammo or off the shelf factory ammo? I mean what could be the causes of this kind of thing? When I read about this it makes me a little nervous about shooting period.

 

[Hoppy590]

any gun can kB for a number of reasons.

you begin to run into issue with reloaded ammo or crap ammo like the pakistani stuff in .303 and .308


3 major issues are

Squib rounds - a round that doesnt exit the barrel, instead the bullet gets lodged in the barrel and the next fired round strikes it. causing a kB

Overpower- a catridge has too much powder loaded into it for a number of reasons

Ruptured cases- a cartidge may ( or may not) have had the right amount of powder in it but ruptures either due to stresses from previous loadings ( reloaded ammo), poor design, or poor construction.

theres many more reasons that arms may kB but i dont feel like going through them all.

basicaly if you dont screw with your gun, dont screw with you ammo. regularly inspect both your guns and ammo. you can drastically reduce your risk of kB

 

[lipadj46]

You put bad ammo into any rifle and watch out, it's not just an M14, M1 or AR15 thing. Buy good ammo, do not buy anyone else's reloads no remanufactured ammo if that last round you just fired off seemed weak check to see if the bullet is still in the barrel. Check your brass for splitting or cracks all are a sign that something is not right. If you buy surplus inspect every round as you load it. Also old rifles need to be checked for proper headspace once and a while. All the popular military rifles are pretty safe designs with multiple redundant safety features. Many people survive a rifle self destructing due to the inherent design features. I would not worry too much about it just be smart.

 

[Dienekes]

Interesting that "kabooms" have suddenly become a daily occurrence, or so it seems. Before then, they were blowups, and were the result of someone's carelessness or stupidity. Guess no one is responsible for anything anymore.

As to the M1A, you can get in trouble with poorly reloaded high-primered ammo--a slam fire. It's interesting to note that during all the time Garands, M14s, and M16s were in military use, there were no "kabooms". All the ammo was properly manufactured and issued out. No reloads from Uncle Elmer on those ranges.

IMHO if you shoot ANYONE ELSE'S reloads, you're asking for trouble. Sooner or later, you'll have trouble. Maybe minor, maybe major.

It's a helluva lot easier and cheaper to do it right the first time.

 

[TexasRifleman]

you begin to run into issue with reloaded ammo or crap ammo like the pakistani stuff in .303 and .308

The Pakistani .308 is a totally different thing than the .303.

Most of the surplus .308 Pakistani ammo out there was made in the late 70's and early 80's.

Testing has shown it to be pretty good ammo. The only downside has been that it's a bit dirty and the bullet sealer can give grief in rifles like the G3's with fluted chambers.

The Pakistani .303 is an entirely different thing. It was from decades earlier, and uses corrosive primer compounds. It's horrible ammo.

The only thing they have in common is the name.

That said, in a nice rifle like an M14 there's no reason to cut corners on ammo. Feed it the good stuff and you likely won't have problems.

 

[Hoppy590]

The only thing they have in common is the name.

i may be thinking of Indian X51 then

 

[madcratebuilder]

Interesting that "kabooms" have suddenly become a daily occurrence, or so it seems. Before then, they were blowups, and were the result of someone's carelessness or stupidity. Guess no one is responsible for anything anymore.

That seems to be happening in every part of daily life in this country, very sad.

 

[Onmilo]

This is why the Federal Government should strive to provide high quality, low cost subsidized ammunition to American shooters.
SAFETY!

In 99% of the KaBooms we all dread to hear about, the culprit is faulty surplus, or in most cases, RELOADS of dubious or careless quality.

 

[TexasRifleman]

i may be thinking of Indian X51 then

Probably. Indian .308 has a bad reputation.

 

[lipadj46]

Yeah anyone who shoots the Indian stuff from the 90's deserves to have their rifle blow up. I had a can of it got for cheap for parts and I pulled 50 rounds and 3 of them had sand in them instead of powder. The stuff had a funk to it also.

 

[SilentStalker]

Can anyone post specific examples of what I should be looking for? For example, a picture of some ammo that is bad in such and such way. Thanks.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Can anyone post specific examples of what I should be looking for?

Truth is there isn't as much bad ammo out there as it sounds.

In 7.62x51 nearly all the surplus available for sale around the world is a known quantity and of all of it, the Indian is the big one you hear about causing problems.

Other things to watch for are packaging. Seals on boxes not intact, primer or bullet sealant missing. This usually indicates a reload.

And of course you don't want reloads of any kind unless you do it yourself, and then only if you trust your skills.

There are a small number of quality ammo reman guys out there and those would be the exception.

But really, if you stick to any of the well known ammo you are not likely to see problems.

It's the super bargains that sound too good to be true.

 

[Bwana John]

I would worry more about a "Out of Battery" ignition...

It could be the fault of either the ammo or the gun.

 

[lipadj46]

There is still bad .308 out there I see it on Gunbroker all the time. The bad Indian ammo is headstamped OFV and then 90-2000. OFV ammo from the 70's is fine. There is also some Israeli ammo that is known to be bad but I don't know the headstamp on that stuff. I have read about others too and also there is the German ammo out there in battle packs that is stored in acidic cardboard and when you open it up expecting nice shiny ammo you get lots of corrosion. This is only for 7.63 Nato I am not sure about other calibers.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Israeli ammo that is known to be bad but I don't know the headstamp on that stuff.

Some lots of TZ80 and TZ81 were bad, but not all of it.

I have never seen a list of which lot numbers were included so I just steer clear of all of it.

That stuff hasn't been around for a very long time so you're not likely to run into it, but I'm sure it comes up for sale now and then.

The flaw was in the brass, these rounds split at the primer pocket and up around to the side of the case. Berry Berry Bad.

W.E.G once posted that anyone selling it should be sued. He's right.

 

[drew124]

kb

People have got to pay attention to the amounts of powder called for in the books.They are there for a reason, a few more grains to get that extra velocity can make the differance between a good time and a bad one.
I weigh the powder in every round when doing rifle loads and every 3-4 on pistol loads.when loading "once fired" never push max.And I never shoot anyone elses reloads.

 

[feets]

The M1A should not be run with heavy bullets or loads.
Safe 308 Winchester can be hotter than 7.62 NATO. The two share the same dimensions but NATO is not has powerful.
The heavy loads will (over time) beat up the lugs on the bolt and the receiver. This can and will lead to failure.

Stick to 168 grain and lighter loads. If reloading, use NATO specs or don't go over the mid-rage 308 loads.

 

[lipadj46]

The M1A should not be run with heavy bullets or loads.

True but wear on the bolt lugs are not really why they say not to shoot heavy bullets with an M14. The reason is the oprod, heavy loads will bend the oprod. If you use an adjustable gas plug then you can shoot up to say 180 grain bullets. One should definitely not shoot say the "light" magnum .308 loads though as then you are approaching proof round type pressures and would haev to worry about stressing the lugs and increasing headspace and whatnot.

 

[Slamfire]

Slamfires are exceedingly rare. Thank God. But they have happened. And they will happen. And if it happens to you, you will be a believer. It might be a million to one event, but people die every day due to million and one events. I understand the probability of death to Alaskan Crab fishermen is 1:1000. That does not stop people from getting into crab boats.

The riskiest mechanism is the one with a free floating firing pin. With a little search effort you will hear of slamfires in M1’s (the most common), M1a’s, SKS’s, and AK’s.

It's interesting to note that during all the time Garands, M14s, and M16s were in military use, there were no "kabooms". All the ammo was properly manufactured and issued out. No reloads from Uncle Elmer on those ranges.

What data the military collects is not released to the public. Rule two of Governmental behaviors is “Minimize Scandal”. You, the public, don’t need to know, and what you don’t know, you won’t complain about.

A friend of mine rebuilds arms at an Army Depot has seen a large number of M16's whose upper receivers were blown out just behind the barrel locking recesses. What caused it, he does not know. He is not on distribution for the failure reports.

Maybe you have heard of these?

Garands obviously slamfired. The early round firing pin was replaced with a reduced weight firing pin. The early round firing pin is so rare, I have never seen one. I was told Orion 7 was selling a few for $100.00 apiece. Why would they reduce the weight on the Garand firing pin?: for the same reason they lightened the firing pin on the M16: Slamfires!

Maybe you never heard of the early M16 slamfires? The failure investigation is in the book "The Black Rifle".

Here is a long thread on slamfires, with postings of reports of slamfires. Some people have added their experience

http://www.eotacforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=109&t=49693

 

[Paladin_Hammer]

DON'T DRAG IT THROUGH MUD. AK's may be able to do it, but just watch "Guns and Ammo TV". The M1A isn't exactly a AR-15's brother, but it isn't indestructible. It takes a man possessed to stop an AK.

 

[lionking]

On battlerifles.com (aka ameriback aka EOTAC forum) I once asked in the M1A/M14 section if commercial ammo was safe to shoot in a M1A,I was told yes.So I shoot 150gr soft points (Federal,Remington,Winchester) in my M1A's since.

 

[ROAshooter]

one thing I do not worry about are sqib rounds.....lodging in the barrel...and the next round slaming into it........why??
the squib round will not cycle the bolt on an M1A...

 

[browningguy]

It seems to me that about 90% of the failures I read about involve handloads.

I'm a big believer in cause and effect.

 

[lipadj46]

one thing I do not worry about are sqib rounds.....lodging in the barrel...and the next round slaming into it........why??
the squib round will not cycle the bolt on an M1A...

Many just yank back on the bolt and pull trigger. What if the bullet makes it past the gas vent and there is enough pressure to run the action. You never know I mean a blank can cycle the action if the barrel is plugged so I'm sure a squib could also.

 

[ROAshooter]

those who "yank back on the bolt and pull the trigger" seem to be asking for what they get......the odds of a squib stopping between the gas port and the muzzle are astronomical to the point I will not ever worry about it........but your right the idiots out there not paying attention will get what they deserve.