I heard this in a Gunshop I go to alot

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I related how I heard a customer want to buy blanks for his shotgun because that and racking will scare the bad guy away. The clerk suggested bird shot instead.

I tried to explain but they both glared at me so much I was sad. :eek:
 
Well birdshot actually isnt a bad suggestion. Buck shot will penetrate walls, birdshot doesnt, which makes it good home defense ammo.

Uh, no...birdshot does not make good defensive ammo...at least if you actually want to stop the bad guy.

Remember, Cheney shot his lawyer buddy in the face and upper body at close range with birdshot. He lived with only a few scars.

Birdshot may make nasty wounds, but they're nasty shallow wounds, and not very effective against stopping bad guys. True, they won't penetrate many walls, but they will penetrate walls.

There's no "magic bullet" that can penetrate bad guys deep enough to effectively stop them, but not penetrate walls. It's all a matter of tradeoffs.
 
Handgun bullets can cause quite a bit of trauma to a vest wearing foe. There are many cases where ribs are bruised and broken. Clavicles and scapulas have been known to get fractured or very badly bruised also.

There can also be trauma to the kidneys, liver, and spleen, sometime with internal bleeding. So dependent on the level of vest being worn handgun rounds can cause some "real deal" hurt. This damage is however, not a phenomena of hydrostatic shock waves but simple blunt force trauma.
 
"That there is a WWII bringback SKS. I know because I know the guy who brought it in told me that his dad brought it back from WWII. It was captured at the Battle of the Bulge". No BS, this is a true statement. The SKS was a new "paratrooper" model. He wanted 400 bucks for it. I declined to purchase it.

Funny thing, I had kind of an opposite experience at the local gun shop a couple years ago.
Pretty good shop actually. They have a decent inventory, but they usually want to tell you what you want. I was in there just looking and saw a beat up crappy looking SKS on the used rack. The tag said "Russian SKS- $120".
I looked at it close and told the guy it's not Russian but I'd never seen one like it before. He says "Oh yes it is Russian. See this little star on the side of the receiver? Yup, definitely Russian."

There was no arguing with him, end of discussion. I went home and did some research. Turns out it is Vietnamese. An actual honest-to-goodness Vietnam bringback NVA produced SKS war trophy, rough externally but pristine to unfired mechanically, very rare and worth a whole lot more than $120. Over my wife's protests ("Why do you need another rifle?") I went back and bought it as quick as I could.

Normally I would have felt like I took advantage, but considering he was the expert, I'm just the idiot customer who knows nothing, I didn't feel bad at all.
 
Quote:
Gunstore guy telling a patron that "boat tails on rifle bullets only do any good when the bullet is traveling subsonic."
Ummm... that happens to be a basically true statement.

This is FAR FROM THE TRUTH. Check out this photo
bullet2.jpg

At subsonic speeds, the boat tail increases pressure recovery by moving the separation point of the boundary layer aft. In supersonic flow, the boat tail reduces the wave drag of the projectile. You can see the wake behind the boat tail in that figure. The wake would be wider without the boat tail.
 
A few years ago, a friend of mine were in the sporting goods section of a Super Wal-Mart. These two fat rednecks walk in and one of them said he shot a 42-point buck with a Remington 9000 (NINE THOUSAND). Also said it was a "very powerful rifle."

When we told this story to other people no one believed us.
 
Heres one for ya...from two diffrnt gun shops in town, and these folks are fairly knowledgeable:

"Don't buy Winchester White Box Ammo..they do absolutely NO quality control checks and it is garbage".

I just laughed in their face and walked out...Manufacturing is in my blood, and I know how it works more than they ever will...

They just want you to buy their overpriced ammo,lol.. fools
 
I was buying a .357 once, and bought some .38's, .357's and 7.62x39 (I had an SKS in the trunk of the car already).

Counter Guy: "That wolf ammo won't fit in this revolver"
Me: "Sure it will"
CG: :eek: "No, it's for a completely different gun"
Me: "Yeah, but it fits the cylinder (never checked to see if it does or not - anyone?) and the bullet is smaller than the revolver's bore so the accuracy kinda stinks, but it's just for breaking the gun in, since it's so cheap"
CG: "Are you kidding?"
Owner: "Knock it off A--------! Someone will believe you!":cuss:
Me: "Sorry, couldn't resist":neener:
CG: "You wouldn't believe how stupid some people can be - I though you were serious!"

OK, bad joke, but it was funny.
 
Same gun shop, two different clerks...
#1- "9mm, 10mm they're basically the same thing."
#2- "The Sig P229 only comes in .357sig. Really."
 
I'll admit some of the people I work with aren't very bright. I even overheard one of them telling a few of the others that 'Never use WD-40 on anything, it actually attracts water." Yeah. I didn't even bother saying anything. And yes, I know WD-40 isn't a lubricant really, but it's still a fine cleaner and sure as hell doesn't attract water like a dry sponge.

As funny as some of this thread is, it would be a lot more fun if people that worked in gun stores posted some of the inane questions and requests of customers. I'm pretty sure I've heard it all at this point.

"I want a .38"

Okay, any particular brand of revolver?

"No, I don't want a revolver."

__________________________

"Can you shoot .38 specials through that Glock .357?"

__________________________

"Do you have any more SKSs in the back?"

No, we're out actually.

"Is that one over there not for sale?"

Yeah, but that's a WASR AK-47.

"AKs and SKSs are the same thing though!"
 
I believe the sales clerk was right on that one....

Kind of a side issue, but I couldn't let it go, especially since it indicates that sometimes the clerk is right, but most especially since I miscalculated the energy in a shotgun slug (oops!) in that very same post # 13, page 1:

Carnaby quotes me in that post #13:

Gunstore guy telling a patron that "boat tails on rifle bullets only do any good when the bullet is traveling subsonic."

I remarked in that post:

Ummm... that happens to be a basically true statement.

Carnaby posts (# 58, page 3) a Schlieren photograph of a boat-tailed bullet in supersonic flight, with the comment "This is FAR FROM THE TRUTH. Check out this photo."

The caption in the photo itself is not clear or very logical, and no corresponding photograph of this same type of bullet in subsonic flight is provided.

I stand on my position that boat tails do not affect drag on a bullet very much in supersonic flight, that is, that the salesman's remark was a basically true statement.

I rely on Hatcher (Hatcher's Notebook, pp 564-565, in the chapter on "Exterior Ballistics") as follows:

...Thus it will be seen that there are several different sets of ballistic tables available that may be used with small arms bullets. The Ingalls tables, and the almost identical 1909 tables are most suitable for the ordinary hunting bullet, either the rouded nose type such as the full metal cased .30-30, or the modified spitzer shapes, such as the 222 Remington soft point; while the Hodsock tables or the British "Sharp Point" tables of 1929 give slightly closer results with very sharp pointed spitzers, such as the military .30-06. The Ordnance Department's J tables give closer results for boat-tailed spitzer bullets, though it should be observed that at velocities above the speed of sound it makes little difference whether the base of the bullet is boat-tailed or not.

Bold and italics mine in the above quote from Hatcher.
 
Too many salesman attended the PT Barnum school of training instead of
the training needed for the job they applied for. Of course if you hire
minimum wage help as salesman you usually get minimum wage level expertise. Too many salespeople have to rely on commission to pay the bills.
This tends to make the sale more important then the truth.
 
1)" You can live a couple days, maybe, getting shot in the gut."

True?...Depends, lets see how long it takes to bleed out from a hit to the liver.

2)" 9mm is'nt a good manstopper!"

All comes down to shot placement and if you dont believe me ask all the people that have been killed by the weak ol 9mm. I dont care how "cracked out" someone is, if they get shot with a 9mm in the mouth/nose area they are going to stop.
 
"I'll admit some of the people I work with aren't very bright. I even overheard one of them telling a few of the others that 'Never use WD-40 on anything, it actually attracts water." Yeah. I didn't even bother saying anything. And yes, I know WD-40 isn't a lubricant really, but it's still a fine cleaner and sure as hell doesn't attract water like a dry sponge."

Uhhhh, the WD stands for "Water Displacement". That would mean that it does the opposite of attracting water.
 
230RN, I think Hatcher is mistaken. To quote "Aerodynamics, Aeronautics and Flight Mechanics" by Barnes W. McCormick (the only reference I have at home):

Unlike the two-dimensional, inviscid, subsonic flow, a drag known as wave drag exists for the supersonic case. This drag can be obtained by resolving the integral of the normal pressure forces over the body in the drag direction.

Italics are the author's, the bold is mine. Integrating the normal pressure (pressure pointing perpendicular to the surface) across the entire bullet shows that a boat tail will have less wave drag than a non-boat tail. It's that simple. I have a lineart drawing in my fluid mechanics book by White at school that looks exactly like the schlieren photo given above and the author explains wave drag in that context.

I'm not entirely sure what fraction of the total drag is due to the wave drag. It wouldn't take much to make it significant.
 
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"yo man, you sell bullets here?"

" Yes sir we sell all kinds of amunition here, what kind were you looking for?"

" I gots a .380 and I need dem "bone crusher" bullets for it."

" Bone crusher bullets?.....Uh, no sir, we dont carry anything like that in stock, we would have to order them and they require ID, if you come down and bring your license, we can hook you up."

" uuhh.. no man, never mind"

:evil:






True story, I often call my favorite gun store and disguise my voice just to replay that conversation for them, always gets a laugh.
 
Nothing specific I can recall right now, but quite a lot of confirmed lying, stealing, and general idiocy. There's better service and prices at the local Scheels and Sportsman's Warehouse, generally. By quite a margin. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've asked, "do you guys carry X or Y?" and they then claim no such thing exists, even though it's a well-known product (for instance, rails for an AR). Or how about quoting $580 for a CZ75B (MSRP is less than that by something like $30, and it generally appears to sell for around $400-420).

(That'd be Gary's Gun Shop in SF, SD.)
 
'm getting the paperwork cleared on the Browning and I ask the clerk to please include 3 boxes of the .45 ammo (all they had) in with the price of the pistol. He tells me "no" then he lectured me for 10 minutes instructing me that I had to use .22 ammo in my new pistol and that .45 acp ammo would not work.

In all likelihood, he's used to know nothing customers and is just trying to avoid someone buying the wrong ammo. All you had to do was say that you had a .45.
 
As far as I'm concerned, this ends it.

Carnaby, getting to the root of the question of whether the sales clerk was right, I would submit that, based on ballistic tables derived from many countries' actual firing tables, the salesman should be considered basically correct and justified in his statement --although he should not have been as absolutist in implying that there was no difference.

I set forth here the idea that your and my difference of opinion is simply a matter of degree --while boat tails in supersonic flight slip through the air slightly more easily, the effect of the boat tail is not very significant until the bullet drops into the subsonic range. I point out that Hatcher used the words "little difference" in his comments.

And those firing tables were derived from actual firing tests to determine long-range performance of the bullets.

I would not agree that Hatcher was "in error," or, by extension, that the Ordnance Department was "in error."

I would also go so far as to say, to repeat myself, that the sales clerk's remarks were "basically correct" --forgiving in advance the clerk's conceptual leap from Hatcher's "little difference" to the clerk's observation that "boat tails only do any good when the bullet is traveling subsonic."

His remark (as reported) would be basically true, at the very least, in terms of printed knowledge available to the common man (the military firing tables to which Hatcher refers) since the thirties and forties.

I find, therefore, for the sales clerk.

Case dismissed.

(Gavel.)

---------

John Bercovitz of the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory has complied a rather detailed list of errata (largely typos) appearing in "Hatcher's Notebook." However, there is no reference to any errors on the pages I cited in my previous post.
 
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I've always been miffed that the ATF requires electro-penciled markings on imported mil-surps. I thought it was destruction of a fine weapon. Then I sold a 91/30 to a dealer at a gunshow, and he made out the bill of sale for a Mauser 98 8mm. Rather than make him feel completely retarded, I rolled the rifle over where it was stenciled in, and smiled.
 
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