Exactly why I parted with my XD45. It was a great pistol it just didn't fit me. While the M&P fits me perfectly he may be having the same problem with it and the trigger is just the excuse rather than the true reason. I personally find the M&Ps to be the easiest pistols to shoot quickly and accurately that I have ever used.
I just cannot warm up to the M&P9 trigger pull.
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jon in wv said:
I think maybe we misunderstand each other. I am not trying to bash the M&P. I do feel that I am not shooting this gun as well as I should in comparison to how well I shoot my other guns because of the trigger pull. It's not that I can't shoot it ok. After two months of dedicated practice with this gun, this is how I feel. I don't know how to do a lot of things, but I do know how to shoot a gun. I honestly feel like the trigger pull is hindering my accuracy.
I started this thread to find the opinions of people who feel the same way I do and find out what they think about it and how they dealt with the issue. Your opinion that it is me and not the gun is irrelevant to the purpose of this thread.
jon in wv said:
I genuinely like the M&P9 otherwise. It's ergos are second to none (ok maybe not as good as the CZ75)
I think a trigger job is what I need, not a new gun.I remedied it by going back to my Glocks. My 21, 32 and 19 all have superior triggers that don't want to wander off target like my FS M&P9 did. Try as I might, I just never learned to love that trigger.
I traded in the M&P toward an FN FiveseveN. Now, all glaring differences in the two guns aside, the FN showed me what a smooth, crisp polymer trigger could be like!
I traded in the M&P toward an FN FiveseveN. Now, all glaring differences in the two guns aside, the FN showed me what a smooth, crisp polymer trigger could be like!
Firstly, that was a classy response and I'm not being sarcastic. Secondly, I do think you are a factor. The M&P trigger is a little different than pistols like the Glock and the 1911 or others and if you are not able to mentally make the adjustment then it will effect your shooting negatively. I don't think its a matter of the trigger being so "crappy" as it is a matter of the mental attitude towards dealing with the trigger. I used the Browning HP as an example. The HP is by most peoples standards a terrific firearm but if you are a dedicated 1911 or Glock shooter (or an M&P shooter BTW) the lack of a tactile reset and its longer overtravel will really throw you off if you let it. But with a little adjustment and practice the HP can be shot with terrific speed and accuracy. If I bemoan the HPs trigger and complain that it is not like the 1911s I'll never perform with it. There are things you can do to improve the trigger but if you are still trying to shoot it like a 1911 you won't be satisfied. The M&P is similar. You can spend a lot of money trying to give it a Glock or 1911 trigger but you will probably be more satisfied if you practice, accept the difference, and adjust to the trigger.
That being said I did install a heavier return spring on my M&P 9C to give it a more positive reset but it is still no 1911. My advice is to work on your trigger pull, placement, and grip. When you learn to shoot the M&P a little better you can make small adjustments to make the trigger suit you better. I've worked for the government for 20 years and one thing it has taught me is that you can spend a ton of money on hardware to fix a software problem and be no happier in the end.
rbernie
Contributing Member
I shot a lot (tens of thousands) of rounds through stock M&Ps in 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP. None of the ones that I owned had triggers that I liked, and while I could shoot them OK I also never really felt like I was going to master the pistol.
I am much happier with the SR series from Ruger, but there is nothing inherently wrong with the M&P. I just like the Ruger trigger better.
I am much happier with the SR series from Ruger, but there is nothing inherently wrong with the M&P. I just like the Ruger trigger better.
The Ruger does have a pretty nice trigger. Right now I'm shooting really well and fast with my M&Ps. I really like the feel and point-ability. The trigger pull is fine to me. When I'm shooting quickly I notice the trigger much less than in slow fire.
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Thank you, this is the High Road and I try to keep it that way.
Perhaps at a later date, when I have the patience, I'll make an even more concerted effort to adapt to the trigger or just take the easy way out and get it worked on. It's really just the harsh way the trigger slams home when the sear breaks that throws me off I believe. I am envious that it works well for you, it would save me some trouble if it worked for me.
This is exactly what I am getting at. I shoot them alright but not as well as I think I should and I don't feel like it's going to improve much.
Skylerbone
Member
In all honesty the Apex kit will make a huge difference in regards to pull weight and over travel. I started on DA revolvers at around age 10, added SA revolvers and autos and finally broke down a few years ago and tried a DAO polymer. I picked the M&P for it's reliability and ergos and like the OP shot well enough but was displeased with the crunch I felt every time I squeezed the trigger. I polished up the trigger bar and things improved (lots of sharp edges in there).
The Apex striker block removed the stepped pull and the sear changed the break point of the trigger allowing for about an 1/8" of pull. When it breaks it has only that distance to travel before contacting the frame.
Start with a set of emery boards and break the edges of the trigger bar. Everywhere things make contact and polish those surfaces well. You can modify your original striker block by rounding it off as I did with two of mine. That leaves only the $40 sear to buy. I studied the Burwell directions and the Apex sear before reshaping (again 2) and they are smooth but not as crisp as the Apex.
Hope things work out, I've yet to have a failure with any of mine. I also serrated the large grip for better purchase.
The Apex striker block removed the stepped pull and the sear changed the break point of the trigger allowing for about an 1/8" of pull. When it breaks it has only that distance to travel before contacting the frame.
Start with a set of emery boards and break the edges of the trigger bar. Everywhere things make contact and polish those surfaces well. You can modify your original striker block by rounding it off as I did with two of mine. That leaves only the $40 sear to buy. I studied the Burwell directions and the Apex sear before reshaping (again 2) and they are smooth but not as crisp as the Apex.
Hope things work out, I've yet to have a failure with any of mine. I also serrated the large grip for better purchase.
Skylerbone
Member
Yep. Loosen the screw, set the slide in a soft jaw vise and drift from port to starboard. Once it moves be ready to ease it the last half and capture the spring and cap before they fly out. Two of mine were easy and one bent the brass punch so it's luck of the draw, also a good time to replace the rear sight if you prefer another style.
Those are all striker fired guns....plastic and striker fired are not mutually inclusive.
FNP/FNX, H&K USP and P30, Beretta Px4 Storm, Sig Pro 2022 etc. etc. etc. Those are all plastic guns, none of them are striker fired, all of them have models that are SA capable.
I have only fired an FNP (about 450 rounds through mine) and the trigger on it is just as good as my P38 and 1911. The DA trigger is a tiny bit better than my P38.
Skylerbone
Member
Add this link to your favorites: http://www.speedshooterspecialties.com/. You'll find all sorts of helpful accessories for the M&P line from Dawson sights to Apex kits. I've placed several orders and received great service each time.
If you are interested in seeing a couple of M&Ps being run under stress, take a look at this week's episode of Top Gun on the History Channel. They were used in the Elimination Match in a 1:1 shoot-off against friend/foe discrimination targets
Apocalypse-Now
Member
^^it looks like one guy clears a fte from the m&p he's shooting in the commercial. they show it so fast though, it's hard to say for sure.
I think you are referring to his practicing mag changes using snap caps.
He is racking the slide using the overhand technique and ejecting the previous snap cap which was already chambered. He was very smooth with his technique...although with his magwell a bit lower than optimal...and was faster than the his challenger using the slide stop to release the slide
He is racking the slide using the overhand technique and ejecting the previous snap cap which was already chambered. He was very smooth with his technique...although with his magwell a bit lower than optimal...and was faster than the his challenger using the slide stop to release the slide
Apocalypse-Now
Member
^^ahh i see. that's probably it.
I only noticed because he was doing the slide rack just as I teach it and then I noticed the orange tipped snap cap
"all modern plastic guns have poo triggers"<--this is simply not true unless you specifically mean you PREFER the feel of a trigger made of metal on a metal framed gun. i can understand that but the all encompassing statement is false.
i'm going to give you all the answer/solution of a safety levered trigger(ala glock) in a polymer pistol that is specifically designed from the factory to have a very good trigger where you don't have to spend extra money to get a smooth pull,crisp break and very short reset.
...but first.
i started shooting TDA a long time ago and got used to them with no problems at all including getting pretty good with the first DA shot. these first pistols were all metal guns. i never did nor was i into doing trigger jobs during this time.i didn't see the need for that.
....but than something happened.
i got myself a walther p99 AS and suddenly everything changed. i got so used to it and practiced alot with it that now all of a sudden all my previous pistols felt like they had a heavy trigger with creep that i felt alot more and realized that they all had long resets. the p99 literally spoiled me.
now it seemed that suddenly i was into doing trigger jobs on everything else i have/had just to bring it closer to the p99 AS trigger and it's been the trigger i measure/judge against when it comes to a service/duty/defencive type pistol ever since,so please don't tell me what i know to be true. again,if you don't like what the frame or trigger is made of,that's another matter,..and target/competition pistols are also another matter although i have to say that some of those that have a TDA still don't have a better trigger.
ok,now your solution to an out-of-the-box glock type trigger polymer pistol that's already good from the git-go and specifically designed to improve the trigger of the model it replaces and where you don't need to spend anything extra to get a clean,smooth trigger without a heck of alot of pretravel and with a short reset.
it's called,..the walther PPQ. (the PPQ is NOT meant to replace the p99 AS)
don't take my word for it,go to the gun shops and try out the trigger but be fair,it'll be a brand new pistol so also compare to others of the like that are also brand new,....back to back.
by the way,my carry P99 AS,which has many thousands of rounds through it and which is completely and 100% still stock with no modifications whatsoever,has a DA trigger pull weight now of about 7.5 lbs and is smooth as silk. the DA started life with about 8.8 lbs and it was pretty smooth when brand new.(do not believe waltheramerica which states it has an 11 lbs DA and 5 lbs SA,that's incorrect)
a few days ago there was a gentlemen with a thread on here about having a BHP in which he had worked on the trigger. his end result was a pull weight of 7.5 lbs iirc and that is a SAO steel pistol. i wasn't going to post there just to brag that my TDA had a similar weight but in DA,but i'm saying it here for this thread and purpose. most older designed pistols have a DA pull heavier,like from 12-16 lbs from the factory and their SA tend to be heavier than the p99 too. of course,you can pay or perform yourself a trigger job to many different models and bring the weight down,smooth it out and sometimes even shorten the reset but that's not stock any more.
there are a few other polymers that in stock form have a pretty descent TDA trigger too,like the px4,..but the px4 trigger compared to a new p99 AS still has a heavier pull,a longer pull length and a longer reset. the fnp and fnx also are pretty good but still no dice compared stock. the sig triggers also come close but no cigar stock.
so please don't tell me what i know,that a polymer pistol simply can't have a good trigger even completely stock. it's all subjective to the individual i suppose though.
something else i wanted to add: imo,sometimes a little heavier but very smooth trigger is better than lighter but not smooth at all. a short reset is very important to me though.
i'm going to give you all the answer/solution of a safety levered trigger(ala glock) in a polymer pistol that is specifically designed from the factory to have a very good trigger where you don't have to spend extra money to get a smooth pull,crisp break and very short reset.
...but first.
i started shooting TDA a long time ago and got used to them with no problems at all including getting pretty good with the first DA shot. these first pistols were all metal guns. i never did nor was i into doing trigger jobs during this time.i didn't see the need for that.
....but than something happened.
i got myself a walther p99 AS and suddenly everything changed. i got so used to it and practiced alot with it that now all of a sudden all my previous pistols felt like they had a heavy trigger with creep that i felt alot more and realized that they all had long resets. the p99 literally spoiled me.
now it seemed that suddenly i was into doing trigger jobs on everything else i have/had just to bring it closer to the p99 AS trigger and it's been the trigger i measure/judge against when it comes to a service/duty/defencive type pistol ever since,so please don't tell me what i know to be true. again,if you don't like what the frame or trigger is made of,that's another matter,..and target/competition pistols are also another matter although i have to say that some of those that have a TDA still don't have a better trigger.
ok,now your solution to an out-of-the-box glock type trigger polymer pistol that's already good from the git-go and specifically designed to improve the trigger of the model it replaces and where you don't need to spend anything extra to get a clean,smooth trigger without a heck of alot of pretravel and with a short reset.
it's called,..the walther PPQ. (the PPQ is NOT meant to replace the p99 AS)
don't take my word for it,go to the gun shops and try out the trigger but be fair,it'll be a brand new pistol so also compare to others of the like that are also brand new,....back to back.
by the way,my carry P99 AS,which has many thousands of rounds through it and which is completely and 100% still stock with no modifications whatsoever,has a DA trigger pull weight now of about 7.5 lbs and is smooth as silk. the DA started life with about 8.8 lbs and it was pretty smooth when brand new.(do not believe waltheramerica which states it has an 11 lbs DA and 5 lbs SA,that's incorrect)
a few days ago there was a gentlemen with a thread on here about having a BHP in which he had worked on the trigger. his end result was a pull weight of 7.5 lbs iirc and that is a SAO steel pistol. i wasn't going to post there just to brag that my TDA had a similar weight but in DA,but i'm saying it here for this thread and purpose. most older designed pistols have a DA pull heavier,like from 12-16 lbs from the factory and their SA tend to be heavier than the p99 too. of course,you can pay or perform yourself a trigger job to many different models and bring the weight down,smooth it out and sometimes even shorten the reset but that's not stock any more.
there are a few other polymers that in stock form have a pretty descent TDA trigger too,like the px4,..but the px4 trigger compared to a new p99 AS still has a heavier pull,a longer pull length and a longer reset. the fnp and fnx also are pretty good but still no dice compared stock. the sig triggers also come close but no cigar stock.
so please don't tell me what i know,that a polymer pistol simply can't have a good trigger even completely stock. it's all subjective to the individual i suppose though.
something else i wanted to add: imo,sometimes a little heavier but very smooth trigger is better than lighter but not smooth at all. a short reset is very important to me though.
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Skylerbone
Member
The question at hand is what can be done for the M&P trigger without giving up on it, not how to keep it stock. Telling the OP about which model HE should be using is telling him what HE knows or doesn't and offers no assistance with his quandary.
We've had many opportunities to hash out the who makes the best question. He owns what he owns and wishes to enhance its trigger. The rest is interesting but off thread.
We've had many opportunities to hash out the who makes the best question. He owns what he owns and wishes to enhance its trigger. The rest is interesting but off thread.
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