I love the .25 ACP!

[Onward Allusion]

Don't kid yourself that the .25 acp is a toy or a BB gun. These pistols have killed a lot of people who thought along those lines until they found out different, the hard and fatal way.

I always have to chuckle to myself when these debates take place about the .22LR or .25ACP or even the .32ACP. To this day, I have never heard of anyone volunteer to be shot with ONE round in the chest or head, much less than 5 or 7 shots. I think we can all agree that the .25ACP cartridge is a nominal defensive round, when I hear things like I rather... "carry a rock", "have bare hands", or "have a stick" I just gotta laugh.

 

[KBintheSLC]

This thing'll kill an intruder.

The .25 acp is better than nothing, but still a far cry from what I would consider adequate. I do, however carry a .32 acp sometimes, and I don't consider that adequate either. But lugging a 30 oz block of gun in my trousers is not always feasible. So, we compromise... and the .25 is definitely that.

 

[Skinsanity]

I'm with you Onward, where the afforementioned .22, .25, or .32 are definately not optimal by defense standards, I hope that if I ever had to use one, that the other guy refused one and brought a stick instead.

We, as rationale and arguable sane, people think that someone who has been shot should break off the engagement and retreat at the first oppurtunity, this is often not the case. And not something I would bet my welfare on.

I think just as some people confuse the thought of "its not optimal" with "its completely useless", I think others confuse "It's better than nothing" with "you can bet on it".

Like so many things in the topic of firearms, its more of personal preference and comfort than fact, and thus, will always be debated.

 

[macadore]

With a sufficient amount of luck and skill a 25 ACP can save your life. With a more substantial caliber, you need substantially less luck and skill. Skill you can work on. There is nothing you can do about luck.

No, I wouldn't want to be shot by one. I wouldn't want to be slapped in the face of kicked in the shins either. That's not the question. The question is would prefer to bet your life on a 25 ACP or something more substantial?

 

[GLOOB]

Sure! If a .25 ACP was the only caliber I had, I'd love it, too. But I have no firearms chambered for it, and I don't plan for that to change, ever. I don't think a .25 can do anything that a .22 can't do better and cheaper.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I have two .25 handguns, and mostly they are for fun and conversation. One is a Colt 1908 that I lucked into at a gunshow for less than a "plain" one goes for. I added the bark ivory grips, and the result are pretty good, and it is worn enough that if I choose to go light, pocket carry is the ticket. The other is a Beretta 418, or what many consider to be the original "Bond" gun, as referred to by Ian Fleming in the books. Both are more accurate than they should be, with dinky sights and short barrels, but there are soft spots on bad guys that WILL NOT STOP a .25 bullet before it reaches its target, so the .25 can be very deadly if you know what you are doing.

[/IMG]

 

[CZguy]

With a sufficient amount of luck and skill a 25 ACP can save your life. With a more substantial caliber, you need substantially less luck and skill. Skill you can work on. There is nothing you can do about luck.

Great.........there goes thirty years of carrying a four leaf clover down the drain.

 

[cfullgraf]

If memory serves me correctly, James Bond was forced to turn in his 25 ACP because it almost got him killed. That's good enough for me to use something larger.

Still, someday I'll add a 25 ACP, including reloading gear, to my collection.

Want to talk anemic pocket gun/cartridge combinations, how about a Beretta Minx in 22 Short!

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

If memory serves me correctly, James Bond was forced to turn in his 25 ACP because it almost got him killed. That's good enough for me to use something larger.

Thats because his Beretta jammed on him.

M: "Yes, I thought so. This damn Beretta again. I've told you about this before." (to the armorer) "You tell him, for the last time."
Maj. Boothroyd: "It's nice and light... in a lady's handbag. No stopping power."
M: "Any comments, 007?"
James Bond: "I disagree, sir. I've used the Beretta for ten years. And I've never missed with it yet."
M: "Maybe not, but it jammed on your last job and you spent six months in the hospital in consequence. If you carry a double-O number, it means you're licensed to kill, not get killed... From now on you'll carry a different gun. Show him, armorer."
Maj. Boothroyd: "Walther PPK. 7.65 mil with a delivery like a brick through a plate glass window. Takes a Brausch silencer with very little reduction in muzzle velocity. The American CIA swear by them."

 

[JTH]

I'd like to check out a Phoenix .22LR, that comes w/two barrels, if I can ever find one to check out and examine and hold. I won't buy unless I can check one out physically and hold it. I've heard some pretty good thing about the Phoenix for a cheap pistol. I'd like a good cheap plinker. I had a Bryco .32 that had never been fired that was passed down to me when my Dad passed. One day I finally took it out, put the mag in, pulled back the slide it came off and little parts went flying into the grass. End of story That's why I have a Tok and soon probably a Glock19 or a Stoeger Cougar 9mm or 45, I like them both but about +$150 extra for the Glock.
JT

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

FWIW, In the beginning of "Dr. No", "M" went after Bond's .25 because the gun's silencer snagged in his waistband (latter part of "From Russia, With Love"), not because the gun failed........

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I haven't actually seen the movie, just remember reading that off of IMFDB's page on this movie.

 

[CZguy]

FIVETWOSEVEN, and SharpsDressedMan,

You guys sure have good memories.

I've always meant to get a PPK, but never find a good price at the right time.

 

[JR47]

While we listen to all the war-stories, keep one thing in mind. The people shot with them "fell down", were "semi-conscious", or "took themselves to the hospital". It's lacking the part where they continued the assault. Hmmm?

The idea of the 250 pound, drug-crazed, martial arts expert is a figment of someone's imagination.

While I don't recommend a .22 or .25 as a primary gun, or even a back-up, they will bring an assault to an end. The vast majority of people don't want to be shot, period. The presentation of a gun is one of the leading causes of robbers and criminals breaking off an attack. Has anyone ever heard of a criminal debating ballistics with his intended victim when they produce a gun?

In just the past several months, the "Armed Citizen" has had incidents where the citizen killed an armed attacker with a .25 ACP.

Personally, I've seen too many people not stopped by the 9mm +P+ round to ever trust it for anything but target practice. How about 8 shots, in the COM, and we had to restrain the man in order to treat him. PG CO. Police Dept., 1998, in Laurel, Md.

At least, with a .25, I'd feel like there was a reason for the failure to stop.

Contee Road and RT. 197, 1999, PG co., Md. 3 shots with 124 gr. +P 9x19 COM. He ran over 200 yards, and was hiding in his apartment, calling 911. Not only did he survive, but he's currently serving two life sentences in Hagerstown.

These were both hits obtained with Beretta Model 92 pistols.

NO hand-gun cartridge is 100% effective. Thanks, but I carry what starts with a .4

 

[Airburst]

elcaminoariba
Attackers tend to run the second they discover their victim is armed, even without a shot fired. They really run with a bullet in them (if they can). They usually don't take the time to discuss ballistics when they're bleeding and in a hurry to exit. If they are able to run with a bullet in them, they'll get arrested at the ER if they live long enough. I wouldn't recommend the .25 for bear protection tho

If you managed, while in the death grip of a bear hug, trying to see through the blood streaming down your face and ignoring your own screaming and pain and unload the entire magazine into the bears' right eyeball, you might bring it down...on top of you. Then you will be dead. But by all means, keep the .25 for sd. Notice I didn't capitalize the SD.

 

[MaterDei]

Perhaps I am just lucky but so far I have never fired a .22 that was a dud.

Really? The 22LR is my favorite caliber so I'm not bashing it but, really? You've never had a dud?

 

[withdrawn34]

If it "stops" someone, it'll be because they run away after getting fire returned at them. A cap gun could probably produce the same effect. I wouldn't always plan to get a perp who will just run away like that.

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

I was given a Raven arms .25acp, fun to shoot, cant hit nothng with it. my prefferred carry is one of several .45acps I got. I guess the .25 can get you into trouble, dont know if it can get you out of trouble, but like someone said, it is better than a rock.

 

[Lvl21nerd]

dunno...depends on how heavy the rock is and how well u can throw it

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Drug crazed martial artist? One thing I've noticed, IN GENERAL, is that people who seriously pursue a discipline like a martial art, and stick with it long enough to learn something, ususally have a lot of self control, and little use for drugs. Just as the MAJORITY of gun owners carry the conscious weight of responsibility and self control with firearms, the people who develope themselves physically in a martial arts doctrine also exercise significant self control. It is part OF the martial arts discipline. This is not to say that a .25 is all you need to stop a big, angry drugged up attacker, but let's not asign the belief, or assume, that there are too many of them with black belts.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

PS: Regarding 007's .25, I quote books. Now THERE is the REAL Bond! (Well, as real as a fictional character is, right?) I invite everyone to read the 13 original Fleming novels. You won't regret it.

 

[CornCod]

The .25acp is not an optimum defense cartridge. However, if owning a .25 prevents you from walking out the door of your dwelling with no handgun at all, then I would suggest you carry the .25 in good health. A lot of guys claim to tote a lot of heavy artillery, but those are often the same guys who get frustrated with the weight of big-bore handguns and wind up not carrying at all.

Those who carry .25acp handguns may wish to consider the Kel-Tec P-32, a .32acp handgun which is the size of a traditional .25. I tote my P-32 when clothing and climate choices force me to carry a wee pistol.

 

[artee]

Have fired the Colt 1908's and Baby Brownings "on the range". Have also shot and chronoed the Walther TPH .22 LR --Just like USP9's TPH in 25ACP, only in 22 LR. Far more common, not that any TPH is abundant. All lot's of grin and giggles. The TPH's are darn accurate. I took lots of quarters from fellow pilots on bets on hitting match heads at about 7 yards.

Now my .25 ACP tale of Woe Favorite cousin (about 4 yrs older) was a deputy sheriff. Carried a Colt .25 as a backup. I had gotten a "Chorny" brand chronograph within a year of it's intorduction, and this is several years later (so say 1992 or so). He wondered what that little 25 could do, so conned me into loaning him the Chrony. Yep. He Shot the Chorny Hit it just left of center on the "back plate" of the front half. [The "Chorny" folds in half for storage, so there is a divider "plate" half way between the screens due to this] It completely chipped off the paint of a 3/4 in high by 2 in wide area. Buckled the sheet metal about 1/2 inch. Didn't penetrate or break through the sheet metal. Was able to use some "duck bill" pliers to pretty much squeeze the metal back out flat. Just now have re measured the metal with a 1 inch mic. It's .041 in thick, including the enamal paint.

Walther TPH 22 LR chorno results: Tests at 12 feet from muzzle between 60 and 80 deg F, 750 Ft MSL. Test Ammos: Fed "550 rd Bulk Pack" 36 gn plated HP; Rem "Golden Bullet" 36gn HP; CCI Minimag 40gn RN; Win SuperX 40 gn RN; Win Dynapoint HP; Rem Thunderbolt 40gn; Federal American Eagle 36gn HP All "High Speed" Ammo types.

Vel 860 to 880 fps It all falls in that band.

CCI Stinger 960 fps

tests repeated multiple times over several years.

Moral: 22 LR out of a .25 ACP length barrel is faster than most cowboy loads and at the high end for 45 ACP Ball. Don't bet prison that it can't hurt someone. It and .25 ACP might not be a great choice though. And, if you do stupidly loan your chorongraph to someone, hope he's using 25 ACP

 

[bikridr]

I have a Beretta .25 Jetfire that is extremely accurate to 7 yards and has had no failures of any kind.I prefer to carry something larger however my wife carries this because of the low recoil and nerve problems in her hands.I also have a Phoenix HP22 that is reliable with CCI MiniMag and fun to shoot for only $150 new.I carry a larger caliber because it is more effective , but I don't know anyone who would look down the barrel of my Jetfire while I fire 9 rounds as fast as I could pull the trigger

 

[Robert Wilson]

To this day, I have never heard of anyone volunteer to be shot with ONE round in the chest or head, much less than 5 or 7 shots. I think we can all agree that the .25ACP cartridge is a nominal defensive round, when I hear things like I rather... "carry a rock", "have bare hands", or "have a stick" I just gotta laugh.

I can't recall ever hearing anyone volunteer to be beaten with a stick, or hit with a rock, or choked with bare hands, either. That doesn't make any of them especially good self-defense methods.

It seems to me that the whole thread could be distilled with "The .25 ACP is better than nothing, but almost any other caliber is better than the .25 ACP". But that wouldn't be any fun at all!