What kind of accuracy do you expect from a battle rifle

[Father Knows Best]

Thank you to whichever moderator cleaned this thread up.

+1.

 

[Swampy]

DMK asked:

Good points guys. I do suppose match ammo is allowed for the "John C. Garand matches" and "service rifle" competitions though, right? Or is it service ammo only?

Does anybody know the typical sizes of the 10 and x rings for these "off the rack service rifle" shoots?

I shoot the M1 in all these events....

The CMP's John C. Garand Match requires that you shoot an issue grade rifle, with no "Match type" upgrades. In a true JCG Event, ammo is issued. It can be either milsurp or newly made M2 equivalent. The idea is that all competitors shoot the SAME ammo in the match.

The JCG matches can be shot at 100 (SR-1 target) or 200 yds (SR target). On both the SR and SR-1 the aiming black is approx. 6.5 MOA across (13 and 6.375" across respectively), comprising the X, 10, and 9 rings with the 8,7,6 & 5 in the white.

In both the CMP's EIC (Leg) Matches and in the NRA Service Rifle class an M1 can be fully upgraded with all the bells and whistles. Full bedding, heavy barrel, full profile butt, unitized front end, match sights, etc..... You also shoot your own ammo, as "high tech" and customized to your rifle as you want.

The CMP EIC (LEG Match) is ALWAYS shot on a full course of 200-300-600 (or 500). NO EXCEPTIONS !!!

The NRA Highpower full course is also 200-300-600 (or 500), but the NRA also has allowances and appropriate targets for "short courses" for ranges that can only go out to 100-200 or 300 yards. Locally we shoot a 100 yd NRA short course.

Targets for these full courses have scoring rings of various diameters, but the the one consistent thing is that the aiming black will ALWAYS be approx. 6.0 MOA across for all stages, ranges, etc... 6.375" @ 100, 13" @ 200, 18" @ 300, and 36" @ 600.
This means that your sight picture will look roughly the same at all times.

Hope this helps,
Swampy

Garands forever

 

[artherd]

if the man can't realize better accuracy in combat,
then why bother to look for it in a combat rifle, hmm?

Here is why even a mediocre to poor shooter will benefit from an *accurate* rifle.

If you can only hold 3MOA, and your rifle can do 3MOA, your groups will be 6MOA or more.

If you can only hold 3MOA and your rfile does sub-MOA, your groups will be 3.5MOA.

 

[HankB]

Using LC72 milsurp USGI ammo, my CMP M1 Garand will put 8 rounds into 2" x 3" groups at 100 yards . . . with me shooting it, that's doggoned good. I'm sure a better shooter could improve on that.

 

[Chris Rhines]

With this criteria, MOST battle rifles will not suit you past 200 or 300 yds., max.

In most cases, it will take a rifle with a new barrel, some tightening up of the action, and match quality ammo to better this.....

Very much true. Most battle rifles won't hold an 8" group past 300 yards. A properly set up AR15 or AR10 will. Either of my AR-15s will hold 8" at 300 yards, and my JP upper will shoot MOA at 600 with 77grn Black Hills...

- Chris

 

[Cpl Punishment]

What I expect from an AS ISSUED battle rifle, i.e. NOT a "properly setup, handloaded-for" rifle, but an out-of-the-bopx battle rifle with issue ammo, is 4-5 MOA. From my experience this is reasonable. It's also reasonable to drop AT LEAST 1 MOA off of that by handloading.

 

[Beetle Bailey]

Well, most of my battle rifles are milsurp bolt-actions, so they would in theory be a bit more accurate than semi-auto battle rifles (assuming all other conditions are equal). BTW, I voted for "2-3 MOA".

I've gotten 2" groups or better out of all the bolt-actions I currently own except for my Swiss K-31 since I haven't shot it at 100 yards yet (I just got it last month). I got 3" groups with my M1 Garand, but I'd like to see if it will do a bit better than that. If the best I can get out of a rifle is 4" groups, it's gotta have some pretty nice redeeming qualities. . .

 

[rbernie]

What I *expect* is 2-3MOA. What I usually get is something else altogether...

 

[DMK]

Well, most of my battle rifles are milsurp bolt-actions... I've gotten 2" groups or better out of all the bolt-actions I currently own except for my Swiss K-31 since I haven't shot it at 100 yards yet

Wow, what kind of milsurps are they? The only surplus bolt actions that I have that shoot that good are my Finn M39s. Most of the rest are Mosin Nagant carbines though. My poor groups might have a lot to do with rough triggers and flinch.

 

[demusn1979]

i get 1 MOA with rem core-lokt 150gr.
w/scope.

 

[Beetle Bailey]

Wow, what kind of milsurps are they?

Believe it or not, my M48 Yugo mauser and my RC 98K German mauser both have given me 2" groups on a regular basis with surplus Yugo 8mm ammo. Also, I have a couple Enfields that have done that as well, but with commerical PMP ammo. Also a Swedish M38 with surplus 6.5x55 swede and both of my M39 Finnish Mosin Nagants (I love those two ) with Czech silvertip light ball surplus ammo.

My poor groups might have a lot to do with rough triggers and flinch.

Those Mosin carbines are tough for me to shoot as well. I mean, I'm behind the rifle and I can feel the concussion blast when I shoot that sucker . I guess I should add that those 2" groups are done with a sandbag on a bench. I also use a padded shooting jacket, and I found that helps eliminate flinching. Also, I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the "luck of the draw" when you buy these guns, since some have been used a lot or otherwise not properly cleaned/taken care of.

All the best,
BB