I need advice getting my girlfriend started in a major caliber

[Smaug]

Just a couple of weeks ago, I got my girlfriend started in shooting. She loves it. She is absolutely addicted to my Ruger Mk. II Target already. She learned on a 4" barrel fixed-sight one, but was disappointed at the spreads she was getting at 25 yards. I got a red dot mounted on my 6 7/8" barrel target model, and her accuracy improved at least 100%. She feels like she is cheating and that it doesn't mean as much with the red dot. Anyway, to get to the point...

I had her shoot a few rounds through my Ruger P90. There are a couple of problems:

• She is barely strong enough to rack the slide. Not something that would make it a good home defense gun for her.
• She is put off by the recoil and the heavy brass hitting her in the forehead. (I'll get her a cap for the brass issue)

I don't want to push her and sour her on shooting with me, so I nearly left well-enough alone. I had her try a light 44 Special load in my big S&W 29 w/ 8 3/8" barrel. She said it was MUCH better than the 45 ACP in my Ruger P90. That got me to thinking that maybe a nice S&W or Ruger in 357 Magnum would be perfect. We could stoke it up with 38 Specials for the range, which would make it an easy enough shooter. For home defense, it would have Magnums or +P 38s in it.

She is ashamed of herself though that she couldn't handle the 45 right off the bat. I told her that you can't expect to shoot a 45 well on your first try, and that you have to practice often to stay competent with a 45. She hasn't really given up on it yet, but being barely able to rack the slide really has me worried.

Here are the options as I see them:

• Find a clean used 357 with a 4-6" barrel. (we also do a lot of target shooting, and I don't think 6" is too much for home defense, do you?)
• Wait for her to get up some nerve and give the Ruger P90 another try.
• Wait for my Glock 34 to arrive and have her give that an honest try.
• Buy a Bulgarian Makarov for her. (I have always wanted one anyway, wink wink) That concerns me, as it isn't necessarily something I would want her to defend her life with... However, if it is low-key enough that she would be comfortable shooting it, it is much better than a 22, right?

What has worked you guys?

Am I worrying about this too soon?

 

[lycanthrope]

Go with the .357. You can break her in on .38 Specials and she can load it easily. Shooting single action will also give her a pull similar to the Mark II. You can also mount a red dot on it easily if that's what she likes. If she thinks it's cheating, tell her about all the special forces that use them!

Alternately, get some low recoil .45 rounds. Federal makes some Hydra Shoks that are low recoil if you can't get some reloads. (If it were a 1911 platform you could just put in a lighter recoil spring and use a shok buff so she could rack easily.) Also, load up the Ruger for her and just let her hammer some into the berm. Make sure she has a nice two handed grip (none of that one hand supporting the gun under the magazine stuff) and get her used to recoil.

 

[gbelleh]

I've had good experience introducing people to 9mm with the Beretta 92FS. Big guns in 9mm have very little recoil and the long barrel helps accuracy for new shooters. It also bridges the gap from .22 to bigger calibers like .45 or .357 very nicely.

The Beretta's slide is relatively easy to rack too. A Makarov's slide isn't real reasy to rack.

I've found that the Bersa .380 is a good gun for new shooters to learn on too.

 

[Sean Smith]

The brass hitting her on the forehead means that the extractor or ejector aren't functioning properly, by the way. She shouldn't have to get used to that; have Ruger fix the gun.

If she really wants to use an autoloader in a "real" caliber, have her do some grip exercises. The Makarov won't be any better than the Ruger in that regard, by the way.

Generic answer is for her to start with 9x19 in an autoloader or .38 Special in a revolver, 4"+ barrels in either caliber.

 

[Werewolf]

First leave well enough alone. If she's anything like my wife she'll come around.

2nd a lot of it has to do with the gun. When I got my wife started I handed her my Glock 22 - big mistake. 40 S&W is a very snappy round and in the G22 even more so. That put her off shooting all together. Eventually I got around to buying a CZ-75B in 9mm and it is a very soft shooting pistol. She took right to it.

After a while for reasons known only to her (women don't think the way we do - I'm convinced) she wanted to shoot my "big gun" - a Sig P220 (.45ACP for those that don't know). Sum Bitch if she didn't like it better than the CZ - go figure. Now she wants to try my Glock again the next time we go shootin'. I think she'll still not like it because of the snappy quick recoil compared to the CZ and Sig but we'll see.

So don't pressure her and make sure you ease her into the bigger guns.

 

[Kharn]

How is she trying to rack the slide? Is she holding her dominant arm still while pulling back the slide with the weaker arm?

I was taught to use the weak arm to hold the slide tightly (lock elbow), and then push the frame forward with the dominant arm. This will usually do the job for shooters that arent strong enough to rack the slide the "convenctional" way.

Kharn

 

[notbubba]

To help with the racking of the slide, two things may help.

1) Try thumb cocking the hammer before racking that makes it much easier.

2) As she racks with the one hand punch forward with the hand holding the gun.


Try and see if either helps.

 

[benEzra]

The Glock 34 (longslide 9mm) should be perfect. My wife has no problem with a Glock 26, and the 34 is much milder because of the long slide. The slide on a Glock is easier to retract than on a Ruger, in my experience (may be just the texture gives you a better grip on it, thereby requiring less hand strength). It will kick less sharply than a .38 revolver, even though it is more powerful, and 17-round pre-ban Glock 17 magazines fit flush in the mag well. (My wife also likes the looks of the Glock, and for her that's an important issue.)

A .357 revolver will be much harder to shoot than the Glock, I would suspect; the mechanicals are a little easier but the concussion and recoil are much worse. My wife loves shooting a her Glock and a 1911-clone .45 but won't touch a .357.

In the interim, a .22 pistol stoked with accurate ammunition is a whole lot better than nothing for home defense. It may not be the best thing against a 280-lb axe murderer on PCP, but it will ruin a rapist's day . . . I would suggest CCI Stingers or the Aguila hyper-velocity load round (can't remember what it's called, but it's the most accurate .22 HV HP I've ever shot).

 

[Justin]

I'm going to move this to the handgun forum in just a moment, but first I'll toss in my two cents.

Finding a pistol that fits her hands well and points naturally is more important than the caliber. Take her to a gunshop that has a lot of pistols for sale and a salesperson behind the counter with a good disposition. Then start pulling pistols out of the case and have her try them out, doing side by side comparisons. Have her rack the slide, cock the hammer, and dry fire the pistols. Basically have her try everything but actually shooting the gun. (If the place rents pistols, then do that, too.)

The best way for a person to find their own pistol is for them to do as much of the searching as possible. Once she finds a pistol that she is comfortable with, it will be easier for her to get proficient with it. (Of course, use common sense, an ultralight titanium whatever chambered in .57 Loudenboomer probably wouldn't be a good choice.)

 

[ocabj]

I taught a friend's girlfriend how to shoot last year. Of the handguns I had (no .22s), she was able to handle the Springfield Milspec in .45 the best. I had light target loads (3.8-4.0 Clays, 200SWC) and the thin grip of the 1911 was very accomodating for her smaller hands. I think the best thing is to make sure your gf can properly grip the handgun. As long as she can grip it properly, the recoil won't be too much of a factor because with proper grip, she will be able to handle it comfortably.

IE: I have a Beretta Brigadier Inox in 9mm and when I was teaching the aformentioned female, she wasn't shooting well with it even though it was a 9mm and had virtually no recoil (standard handload, not +P velocity). It has the rubber wrap around grips with the finger contours, and I like it, but it didn't fit her at all.

As far as a Makarov, those actually have a sharp kick to them, worse than a 9mm Luger.

What would be really cool to have her try out with be a single action revolver like a Ruger Vaquero with cowboy loads in something like 45Colt. The recoil on those things are pretty soft, and the grip is very accomodating.

 

[SteveS]

Finding a pistol that fits her hands well and points naturally is more important than the caliber.

Excellent advice. I wish I had read this two years ago. My wife had been interested in shooting, but never liked any of my semi auto guns (Sig, Glock, Kimber, Beretta). It turns out that none of them were comfortable. Finally, I suggested that she go to a store and pick out what she wanted and she ended up with a Ruger SP101 in .357. I figured she could just shoot low powered .38's out of it. She was very comfortable and was shooting .357 in no time.

 

[lee n. field]

Thoughts on the .45 she tried: The Ruger P90 doesn't have cocking serrations. You have to pinch pretty hard to get a good enough grip to rack the slide. That's about my sole complaint about the P90.

Also, if the brass is hitting her in the head something's not right. 5 to 8 feet to the right is more like it.

 

[lycanthrope]

How about some skateboard tape on the flats of the P90?

 

[Smaug]

lycanthrope said:
How about some skateboard tape on the flats of the P90?

Please. Isn't it ugly enough as is? I find that I only miss the cocking serrations on my P90 when I want to cock it with the safety on. With the safety off, the safety/decocker lever provides a good grip area. It's no Glock, but it's pretty good for me.

I think she is going to give the P90 another try and kind of work herself into it. Also, she will try the Glock 34 that is coming in the mail too. I think she will end up liking that.

One problem remains: how do I justify buying a 357 revolver now?

 

[Standing Wolf]

Just a couple of weeks ago, I got my girlfriend started in shooting.

I'd give her a few months of shooting .22s before even suggesting bigger calibers. It's much easier to transfer good habits up the caliber range than unlearn bad habits.

 

[artherd]

Wait for my Glock 34 to arrive and have her give that an honest try.

DING DING! We have a winnner. My G34 has some recoil, but it's one of the softest shooting major pistols I've fired.

It's a great gun, takes G17 mags (same frame as G17).

And with 9mm+P+ ammo (factory approved in glocks) is a defensive gun to be reconed with (more energy than standard .45ACP.)


As a bonous, the slide on all glocks, but especially the G34, is exceptionally easy to rack. (there is little friction, and the 9mm mainsprings are not very heavy)

I can nearly do it with one hand.

 

[artherd]

Wait for my Glock 34 to arrive and have her give that an honest try.

DING DING! We have a winnner. My G34 has some recoil, but it's one of the softest shooting major pistols I've fired.

It's a great gun, takes G17 mags (same frame as G17).

And with 9mm+P+ ammo (factory approved in glocks) is a defensive gun to be reconed with (more energy than standard .45ACP.)


As a bonous, the slide on all glocks, but especially the G34, is exceptionally easy to rack. (there is little friction, and the 9mm mainsprings are not very heavy)

I can nearly do it with one hand.

 

[Sox]

Try an HK USP fullsize in 9mm. She will be able to easily manipulate the slide, recoil in this gun is very minimal, the 9mm is an economical first choice, can be a potent defender. That was exactly the same scenario with my girl, she liked shooting but found the slide on most difficult to cycle, not so with my USP. Lemme know how it goes.

 

[GigaBuist]

I'm no expert here, but troubles with racking the slide (my own included when I first got started) weren't a strength issue -- just a style issue.

Like other's have said, try teacher her to grip with the weak hand and push with the strong hand. Or move both at the same time. The max pressure is what -- 20 pounds? That's only 10 pounds of force on each arm to get the job done. A trivial task really -- for any grown person.

The mechics of are aren't "normal" though. I don't know of any other motion that is like doing that in normal day-to-day life.

Unload the pistol, triple-check that it's unloaded and let her muck with it for a while. Eventually she'll find that "sweet spot" that fits her muscles and makes it easy to get the slide back.

As far as calibers/guns go... well of course find one that fits her hands. I'm surprised as all get-out but I took two small female shooters out Sunday and they actually enjoyed shooting the CZ-75B I had in 9mm. Don't ask me why. It's a fairly docile gun, sure, but they were apprehensive as all-get-out with rifles. Noise I guess was a factor.

Seems like it's all individual preference really. My Glock 21 doesn't feel too snappy to me... but when I handed it to a buddy that was shooting a .357 on a range trip he thought it kicked like a mule. I thought the .357 had more recoil than the .45. Neither of us were comfortable with the other gun so it felt awkward I guess.

 

[JohnKSa]

Sox is right.

My wife has hand strength problems due to a medical condition. She "appropriated" my H&K USP full size in 9mm when she found that she could work all the controls easily and that the recoil was very soft.

I liked that gun too...

Another option is the Beretta .380 with the tip-up barrel. It's big for a .380 so the kick isn't bad, and the tip-up barrel means never having to rack the slide.

DON'T go with a Mak. The slides are hard to work, and they can be uncomfortable to shoot for someone who is recoil shy.

A 4"bbl .38 or .357 revolver is a decent option as long as the trigger isn't too stiff. My wife won't shoot revolvers anymore. She says that they all kick too much and the DA triggers are too hard to pull. She has trouble cocking the hammer for SA, so DA is really her only option.

If you can find a Colt Govt .380, it's a good option. It's a little more complicated for a newbie to learn, but the locked breech action means that the recoil is mild and the recoil spring is pretty soft too.

 

[tbeb]

My wife's house gun is a .357 magnum Ruger Speed Six with a 2 3/4" barrel. She kept the stock grips on it to keep trigger finger reach as short as possible. It is loaded with .38 special +P 125 gr. JHP's. She tried a +P load which uses a 148 gr. bullet. She likes the Fed. 125 because it recoils a little less. I recommend a 4" barrel so you get more velocity. If your girlfriend can't rapid fire the empty revolver in the double action mode 12 times, then have the weight of the double action trigger pull lightened by a good gunsmith.

 

[BJPARKER]

I'd say stay away from the semi's and take her to a place that has a good selection of revolvers. I have a Ruger sp101 and its great for a small hand, but let her pick out something in a .38/357 and take her out often to shoot, no pressure. Be patient and let her develop confidence with a revolver.

 

[valnar]

There is certainly a big jump in the "ouch" factor going from an N-Frame shooting .44specials to a medium size revolver shooting .357Mag. I'd say you passed up the .45ACP a mile back on that route.

I disagree with the recommendation on the .357. Maybe the S&W 625 would be good; the .45ACP round with a heavier gun. Or perhaps going down a notch to a regular sized revolver, but shooting .38+P.

In the end, let her decide, as others have said.

-Robert

 

[Wedge]

My wife is pretty small and not very strong. She too really likes the Mark II Target and shoots very well with it. She handled and shot a G23 and while the gun was very comfortable for her the .40 S&W was not. A G19 in 9mm is probably on the way for us...

Smaug, I would agree with artherd and say wait for that G34 to show up and have her try that. In the meantime have her shoot that Mark II Target.

I bet that you will need to order yourself a G34 in the future though...

 

[Sven]

Someone I know just teaches his mom to dump a whole magazine of .22 LR into the perp. If she likes shooting that gun, there is hope. Let her decide.