I really want this new H&K!

[Fishbed77]

I would never want a pistol with a completely different mag release for anything more than a target pistol. I've trained for so many years with the standard push button mag release I know that is what I would revert back to during stress. That rules this one out immediately as a defensive pistol, regardless of how good a pistol it is.

That's too bad for you, since the HK/Walther-style paddle release is superior in almost every respect, and is easy to adapt to with an afternoon of shooting.

Walther caused such an uproar when they switched to the button release in the PPQM2 that they have re-introduced the PPQ "Classic" to the US market for 2014.

 

[C0untZer0]

The mag release on the P7M8 is the fastest mag release I've ever used.

Flipping a lever down with your thumb is inherently easier than pushing a button in with the side of your thumb.

 

[mgmorden]

That's too bad for you, since the HK/Walther-style paddle release is superior in almost every respect, and is easy to adapt to with an afternoon of shooting.

Its all a matter of opinion. I own guns with both types. I can use the paddle style release just fine, but it's neither as fast nor as intuitive as the button for me.

I absolutely can't manipulate the release from a firing grip with my strong hand. My thumbs don't reach it and I can't push it far enough down with the middle finger on the other side. Result is that I have to dramatically shift my grip, OR press the release with my weak hand as it leaves the gun, but that slows down that hand from reaching for the next mag.

It's better than the old "heel" releases for sure, but not nearly as good as the buttons for me.

It'd be interesting to see the sales numbers of the PPQ M2 versus the M1. Also, on Walther's newest design - the PPX, they ditched the idea entirely. Its a budget gun sure, but I doubt one release costs anymore than another.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Its all a matter of opinion.

Yup. As you also pointed out, the paddle doesn't work great for everyone. A big part of why I own a HK45 is because of the paddle release. I have large hands and boney fingers, which means I typically, even with careful practice or effort, have a lot of finger on the trigger. I've tried over and over to get my hands positioned just right, but my boeny fingers make for a weak grip despite my hand size. The result is I absorb recoil really well with my large palms, but my boney fingers have a hard time staying in place. The only way to keep my trigger finger in the preferred position means jacking it over way to the right, which lifts a significant ammount of my strong hand palm off of the grip, allows the gun to then shift in my hand because of my skeleton fingers, and follow up shots are slow.

So, as a result I need a lot of distance in my trigger reach, but still have too much finger on the trigger, and the tip of my finger typically gets banged by a push button mag release. The HK style release solves that issue. I can keep a firm grip on the gun, and my trigger finger can be hooked on the bang switch as much as I like. Yes, I have to practice my trigger squeeze quite a lot as you can imagine.

 

[Highcaliber]

Its all a matter of opinion. I own guns with both types. I can use the paddle style release just fine, but it's neither as fast nor as intuitive as the button for me.

I absolutely can't manipulate the release from a firing grip with my strong hand. My thumbs don't reach it and I can't push it far enough down with the middle finger on the other side. Result is that I have to dramatically shift my grip, OR press the release with my weak hand as it leaves the gun, but that slows down that hand from reaching for the net mag.

Trying to use your thumb on the paddle release is a common mistake. Use your trigger finger.

It's not intended for "thumb" reach. It is designed to be easily activated via your TRIGGER FINGER, without the need to shift the gun in your grip. You simply mantain your sight picture, press with trigger finger and insert mag, while keeping your eyes on the target. IMHO, it is a vastly superior design when used as directed.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

It is designed to be easily activated via your TRIGGER FINGER

that's what works best for me.

 

[mgmorden]

Trying to use your thumb on the paddle release is a common mistake. Use your trigger finger.

It's not intended for "thumb" reach. It is designed to be easily activated via your TRIGGER FINGER, without the need to shift the gun in your grip. You simply mantain your sight picture, press with trigger finger and insert mag, while keeping your eyes on the target. IMHO, it is a vastly superior design when used as directed.

That hits the same problem as using my middle finger - I can't push the lever down far enough to actually drop the mag without shifting my grip.

I CAN do this with my thumb on most designs with a button release. Only one I can't is the 1911 with the stock release, but I put an extended release on mine that reaches a bit further back and that solves it.

Admittedly, I have very small hands. My 5'4" sister has bigger hands than I do and she claims to have small hands herself - even for a girl. For me the button releases work better.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Admittedly, I have very small hands. My 5'4" sister has bigger hands than I do and she claims to have small hands herself - even for a girl. For me the button releases work better.

Yep, that would do it. I happen to be 6'3" and wear extra large gloves, so thumb works ok on the paddle, but trigger or middle finger works better for me, even with the large grip panels.

I've always been curious how the P30 would work for me (and now the VP9), since the side grip panels are interchangeable too.I would think for my particular hands the larges right panel and the biggest back strap would be ideal. Unfortunately there are lots of guns I want, and only so many dollars in my paychecks.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

The more I read about it, the more I want one. Finally got around to watching the Sootch review and I really liked what I saw.

 

[greenlion]

25+ years of using the push button release... hundreds of thousands of training rounds followed by pushing that button..... every other gun I use from my tiny 380 to my full size 10mm having the push button release.... no way I'm going to untrain that in an evening of shooting...

I do like the sound of the gun otherwise, but I'm not willing to trade my entire defensive lineup for that one different model. One thing I've learned from years of IDPA; you're gonna do EXACTLY what you do in training when you are under stress, including wasting time putting empty magazines in your pocket...

 

[GLOOB]

I want to like it. But I already have a beef with the slide lock. On a sidearm finished in "hostile environment" blue, the slide lock shouldn't be that accessible in a shooting grip.

 

[george burns]

Unless it does something better than the dozens of other striker fired pistols and is cheaper than the p30 by at least $200 dollars, it isn't going to sell. The P30 is in the low 8's when on sale, recently in the mid 7's, on slickguns, so unless this gun comes in at 500 or less, it's not getting past the Glocks, M&P, and Sig striker fired guns that are on sale for any ware from 4-500 bucks.
Don't forget that the newbies don't really know from H&K, as they don't spent bug bucks on their guns.

 

[sigarms228]

Unless it does something better than the dozens of other striker fired pistols and is cheaper than the p30 by at least $200 dollars, it isn't going to sell. The P30 is in the low 8's when on sale, recently in the mid 7's, on slickguns, so unless this gun comes in at 500 or less, it's not getting past the Glocks, M&P, and Sig striker fired guns that are on sale for any ware from 4-500 bucks.
Don't forget that the newbies don't really know from H&K, as they don't spent bug bucks on their guns.

Online vendors are already taking preorders in the $550 - $600 range on the HK Pro forum..

IMO at that price the VP9 will sell well for HK and probably be easily their best seller in the US in 2015.

However IMO it is not going to be the "Glock killer" that some HK fanbois are sure it will be unless HK sells for LESS than Glock but I seriously doubt that will ever happen.

I am very interesting in trying one out myself once the VP9 is available.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I would never want a pistol with a completely different mag release for anything more than a target pistol. I've trained for so many years with the standard push button mag release I know that is what I would revert back to during stress. That rules this one out immediately as a defensive pistol, regardless of how good a pistol it is.

That is a good point but I shot and trained with a 1911 for 15 years before I went to the P30. It took me about 3 range trips to make the switch in my mind. One nice thing about the paddle arrangement is it is ambidextrous. You can also use your trigger finger to release the mag if your hands are too small to hit the paddle with your thumb.

Been running the P30 LEM for 2-1/2 years and the gun has been excellent. Just took a two day class and fired 915 rounds without an issue. Cleaned and lubed it before day 1 and it ran all the way through without a hiccup. If the new HK is anything like the rest of their guns, the quality is well worth the price.

 

[browningguy]

But how often are you going to being mag changes in a gunfight? Although I grew up with BHP's and 1911's I find the paddle releases really good.

 

[barnbwt]

That's too bad for you, since the HK/Walther-style paddle release is superior in almost every respect

Sheesh; so superior it's used by almost no one else, despite being practically no different from a production standpoint. I could just as easily argue the five-seven's index finger safety is superior in every way to other setups, yet no one else uses it. Heck, there're people still claiming heel releases are the best bet. Use what works for you.

TCB

 

[Fishbed77]

Sheesh; so superior it's used by almost no one else, despite being practically no different from a production standpoint. I could just as easily argue the five-seven's index finger safety is superior in every way to other setups, yet no one else uses it

Attitudes like yours are why we don't see more paddle-style releases, not because of any inferiority of the system.

But we do see them on HKs and Walthers - companies that have traditionally focused more on LE/Military sales than the US civilian shooter market. Thus, they use the system they feel is best. Mark Thomas at Walther America came out and stated that the only reason the PPQ M2 has a button release is to help gain acceptance in the American civilian market (note that the similar LE/Military-only P99Q and P99RAD have kept the paddle release).

The paddle has several advantages going for it over traditional button releases:

-Completely ambidextrous without any changing or swapping parts.

-Easy to reach with any size hand without shifting your grip on the pistol. Can be operated with the thumb, index, or middle finger.

-Impossible to accidentally depress in a holster. This is a HUGE benefit that can not be understated.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Paddle or push button....... Both systems work, and it is a matter of personal preference. I don't think a statement that one is superior to the other can really be supported in any reasonable way. One may be superior for you, and not the next guy.

It's not like you hear of either system having major malfunctions in any of the major companies.

A system that is just as efficient, works just as well, and accomplishes the exact same thing as an older and proven system is not superior, it is innovative.

If it somehow did a better job or was more reliable than the old system, then it would be superior.

All that being said, it is a superior system for me, and I like it.

 

[george burns]

It's going to come down to the availability of the guns, when they are released. If they are easy to get hold of, they will sell. If not, people have a problem waiting "again". for another new gun.
And if the sellers, start jacking up the price, past the MSRP, it will be a failure, as the P30 is too close in price, comes in a variety of variables, and also comes in 40.Has SA/da, Long and short barrels and 2 Lem trigger weights. All in all it's a better choice if there is only a hundred dollars separating them.
Decocker/safety button, caliber, and possibly more grip options, "I don't know if the side panels come in different sizes on the striker fired version".

 

[Zaydok Allen]

"I don't know if the side panels come in different sizes on the striker fired version".

It does.

And if the sellers, start jacking up the price, past the MSRP, it will be a failure, as the P30 is too close in price, comes in a variety of variables, and also comes in 40.Has SA/da, Long and short barrels and 2 Lem trigger weights. All in all it's a better choice if there is only a hundred dollars separating them.
Decocker/safety button, caliber

I agree in part on the price issue. High innitial prices can sour customers, so if they are wise, they wil wait to release them until they have a substantial number of them ready, and available to a large portion of the market.

However, the other points are a matter of opinion and perspective.

 

[boricua9mm]

Those that look to the VP9 as a potential candidate do it because it is NOT a hammer-fired P30 with a funky de-cocker and two different, yet similarly horrid, trigger pulls.

People have been asking for a striker-fired HK with a constant trigger pull for quite some time. The availability of the P30 is irrelevant in that regard.

There are benefits to only having to manage a single trigger pull. This has been known for quite some time now, and it is exactly the reason why Glocks, M&Ps, etc. have taken such a foothold in Law Enforcement and Civilian applications.

 

[Girodin]

Unless it does something better than the dozens of other striker fired pistols and is cheaper than the p30 by at least $200 dollars, it isn't going to sell.

The reports from respected reviewers indicate that it does and it will (like all guns there may be some looking to jack prices initially but that will pass).

 

[george burns]

If it comes in around $650, it will take market share away from everyone, just my opinion

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I have mine pre-ordered, the cost was $599 shipped with two mags + factory Meprolight night sights. Needless to say I'm pretty stoked. My favorite guns in my collection are HK including two P30S's, a USP45 Tactical, a USPf9 and a USC .45 ACP carbine. All the early reviews are saying the trigger is about as good as it gets on a production striker-fired gun, and the ergos are very similar to a P30. It takes P30 mags which also makes me happy since I have a dozen of them already.

Personally I love the paddle release; it's hard to back to a button. I think the paddle is superior, and in all the years I've carried HKs vs all the years I've carried a variety of other pistols I can say I've never had the mag dump out of an HK. But I've had the mag pop out of Colt's, Glocks, Rugers, Smiths, etc. It's pretty easy for the mag button to be depressed in the holster but it's nearly impossible for this to happen with a paddle release (in my experience). I personally find it faster, easier to reach and more intuitive as well.

I think Garrett Industries already has a mold gun to make holsters for it. I'll have to shoot them an email soon to confirm this. Hopefully I'll have a Silent Thunder IWB for the VP9 well before the gun gets here.

 

[dondulah]

Great deal you have there for 599 and tritium sites. Where at if you don't mind?