I wanted to point out that it is not just the anti gun crowd we have to worry about.

[Driveway]

The only people who don't see the need for an AR/AK are the people who don't own one.

Well apparently I am one of the Ignoramus gun owners. The thread I started asking why should I own one, was shut down by a mod for reasons I disagreed with, but he's the moderator, I'm not.

So please, educate me.

I could say the same thing about an airplane. The only people who don't see the need for an airplane are the people who don't own one. Does it make it true? I could give you all sorts of reasons why everyone should own a plane. Doesn't mean that it should be the case though.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Driveway, let's not derail this thread, please. I just reviewed your other thread and it looks like it was pretty well covered. If there is something specific you'd like to discuss, PM the closing mod about reopening it.

Contrary to popular belief, the mods aren't sleeper agents working for the "other side." If we were, we'd probably be paid a hell of a lot better.

As far as those who want to give up something... gun owners have a wide range of opinions. Go back through posts long before this and you'll see people disagreeing about pretty much any topic you can think of. Right now, a lot of people are scared/concerned/frustrated/whatever and have either decided that they don't feel that "hi-cap" magazines should be protected or they just think they only way to placate the cries of "do something" is to give up something. These are the folks you should be trying to reach. If you can't convince another gun owner who actively participates on a forum like this, how will you ever convince anyone on the fence?

 

[ball3006]

Can I shoot a person? If it comes down to "him or me" or an innocent person, no doubt I will shoot them. I enjoy living and I don't want some low life taking it from me. Some folks are the kind that can say "here is my life, please take it". I am not one of them. I am a Vietnam vet, a former cop, and have shot many years in competitive shooting.

I don't own an AR. I never liked them from my air force days and I still don't. They just don't fit me. If you want one, be my guest. They just aren't my cup of tea. I am an M1 Garand and a SKS person.

The NRA program for schools is a good one but to the politicians, school safety is not the issue for them....chris3

 

[kscharlie]

I think a lot of us need to think of this as a possibility. I have been shooting guns since I was a child of 4-5. I have killed countless whitetail deer, antelope, mulies, elk, and on and on. I have no qualms whatever about pulling the trigger on any animal I have ever lifeted a gun around. Horse, cow, I have shot them. I am not formally trained in SD but have been informally training all my life and I CANNOT SAY WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that I could shoot a person. I THINK I could. I plan to be able to do whatever it takes to protect my family and property but I also realize that this is a slope I never want to go down. I KNOW I will do what I need to do if(God forbid) the time ever comes but there is always that little part of my brain that sees the killing/shooting af another human being as a different arena.
That is why my HD plans are multi-layered so shooting is the final option.

There in lies your "problem". You are thinking of a criminal, who would kill you in the blink of an eye, as a "human being". I would definitely hesitate to kill another human being. But anyone who is perfectly willing to kill me for a few bucks or rape my wife or daughter have no right to be called "human beings", because they are not. They are nothing more than rabid animals that need to be put down. Should I ever have to kill one of these, (and like you, God forbid) I know in my own heart that I did not kill a human being.

 

[Driveway]

It just seems to me that anytime someone posts a dissenting opinion, or one that doesn't fit with everyone else's, they are shut down. I don't care if it's on TV, be it FOX, CNN, NBC or online.

I'm really NOT trying to be argumentative, just have a good discussion without total agreement on a subject.

Jorg, I really don't think that banning X, whatever X is, (hi-cap mags, guns in general, full -autos, etc) will solve the problem. But I was trying to get some of the logical reasoning out in the open that you've just referenced. My previous thread was closed because it was a "panic thread". I Pm'd him and it did no good.

Sorry about the double post. Internet's messing with me.

I'm done with this thread.

Happy New Year.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Sorry about the double post. Internet's messing with me.

No worries. Happens from time to time. Sometimes posts are delayed showing up, sometimes we get 2-4 in a row. Usually we just delete the other ones. Heck, another mod had to clean up after me from a double-tap this afternoon.

Happy New Year to you as well.

I'll send you a PM with some thoughts later.

 

[velojym]

Jim Zumbo kinda learned this the hard way.

 

[blkbrd666]

All of are young kids are being brain washed in school as to offset or contorl us more in the future.. i remember my 9 year old coming home and telling me i have to vote for Obama because her firends would be sent home to mexico if Mitt won.

This is kind of crap Obama pulled to get relected useing our young kids in school to decide how we vote and no one really knows about it.

Reading this thread just reminds me I turned 50 and had a baby earlier this year and she's growing up "MY" way. I see some parent teacher conflicts on the horizon.

 

[herkyguy]

i've certainly been able to bring my wife around to see things through her own lens, rather than the one promulgated by other means. she cried the first time she shot a gun at a range. she giggles now shooting at tin cans and is quite handy with a revolver.

but that is not enough. i am planning on putting together a 5-stand shoot for folks i work with in the near future. the education and exposure part is critical. that's something we can all work on.

 

[BSnyder]

My dad really surprised me last week as we drove to our hunting "camp" for end of the year doe season. He pulled the ol' "only police and the military need assault weapons". I was honestly shocked. If it wasn't for him, I wouldn't be into firearms and, as a consequence, RKBA. He grew up with guns in rural PA. I tried to educate him a little bit on the subject. Honestly, I'm not really an AR/AK guy myself. I just never really found them appealing, but there's no way in Hades that I would want them banned. Kinda like the old quote, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Just in a different context.

My wife also surprised me the night after Newtown. She's not anti-gun by any means, like ZeSpectre said, more "gun neutral" and "rights supportive". I always stressed self/home defense and she always shrugged it off saying she would just run away or go out the back door of the house in case of an intruder. Well, now that we have a 6 month old kid and seeing the news, she's changed her mind. We were getting ready for bed and she told me wanted to get her CCW permit. She didn't like the idea of not being able to properly defend our son if the need ever arose. So we're now in the process of that and all it entails. It makes me happy that she's finally seen the light. I just hate the way it happened.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

My wife is not a gunny, it took years for me to finally get her comfortable shooting a revolver but at least she has something. Since the moment of Sandy Hook I know in my bones even though she knows it's just a tool she now detests my AR. She respects my position on gun control and I respect that she will always be a mom.

Someday she may see things in a slightly different light but I need her to come to that on her own without me beating her up with statistics. In the mean time my guns defend house and home. They also are my potential tools against tyranny.

 

[Pismopal]

Lots of high sounding enemies we have listed but no mention of the real enemy. Liberals are the enemy...that means Democrats and a few ..only a few Repubs. They are not mentioned because many here don't connect dots. If you are a big union person you are supporting liberals with your dues and the 2nd amendment is not all you will lose as a result....:banghead:

 

[B!ngo]

Do not trust this government---they are the enemy

What a disappointing and unsettling statement.
V

 

[zbird]

As someone already mentioned, yes I do believe our children are being brain washed in schools, just like they brain washed us. ( or tried ). Every time we read a newspaper, watch t.v. they are trying to brain wash you. Of course this is my opinion.

 

[readyeddy]

This is why we give money to the NRA. They don't get easily confused.

 

[Baron_Null]

She respects my position on gun control and I respect that she will always be a mom.

I think this is one thing we all need to be careful about. I've heard a lot in this thread, and many others in addition to this one, "she won't support gun rights because she is a mom".

Frankly, I think this is as dangerous of a mindset in reference to our cause as any. It's disregarding a large portion of potentially pro-RKBA people just because of their parental status.

My mother is in fact a "mom" but that doesn't mean that she quakes in fear or hates my Saiga because of maternal instinct. She fully recognizes that gun control doesn't help keep anyone safe, and also believes in the constitutional right to own guns. But yes, she is still a mother.

So please, stop saying things like "because she is a mother she hates ARs". Yes, mothers might see gun control in a different light because of the innocent children that were killed at Sandy Hook, but that doesn't mean that every mother is a de-facto gun-control activist.

Lots of high sounding enemies we have listed but no mention of the real enemy. Liberals are the enemy...that means Democrats and a few ..only a few Repubs.:

And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop saying things like that. All statements like this do is alienate potential RKBA supporters. If someone with left-leaning views is on the fence about gun control, do you really think this is going to help get them on our side? Gun control isn't just a left-right thing. I've known quite a few conservatives in my day that were even worse than liberals I know when it comes to gun control. That doesn't mean that I think all conservatives hate guns. Even if a liberal person is AGAINST gun control, it's not going to help them feel good about being pro-RKBA by constantly telling them they are the enemy!

 

[76shuvlinoff]

Originally Posted by 76shuvlinoff View Post

She respects my position on gun control and I respect that she will always be a mom.

I think this is one thing we all need to be careful about. I've heard a lot in this thread, and many others in addition to this one, "she won't support gun rights because she is a mom".

As quoted she understands my position and in this house there is room for opinion and discussion. She goes out plinking with me and we have a good time.

Some folks don't have an interest in guns, they have that right and it doesn't mean they are all out marching against the rights of others to have them.

I am in no way suggesting compromise on 2A but we can't make everyone "like" guns, and we can't appear to be jamming them down their throats either. We can only try to reduce fear by stopping the spread of misinformation.

I don't particularly like horses but there are 5 of them I go out and feed every morning. :banghead:

 

[Baron_Null]

As quoted she understands my position and in this house there is room for opinion and discussion. She goes out plinking with me and we have a good time.

Some folks don't have an interest in guns, they have that right and it doesn't mean they are all out marching against the rights of others to have them.

I am in no way suggesting compromise on 2A but we can't make everyone "like" guns, and we can't appear to be jamming them down their throats either. We can only try to reduce fear by stopping the spread of misinformation.

I don't particularly like horses but there are 5 of them I go out and feed every morning. :banghead:

Oh no, I wasn't arguing with that, just on making generalizations about people being moms and whatnot. I completely understand that, and I know a good deal of people with the same mindset. I know waving my pro-2A banner near them isn't going to help, but I just don't want people to give up on others because of a status such as "mother".

I was just using your post as an example as to what to avoid when generalizing people. It's easy to say that someone is against guns because they are a mother, or a teacher, or something like that, but that doesn't necessarily make that correct. But just to be clear, I wasn't picking on you in particular, just the whole "x is a mom so they don't like evil black rifles" type of mindset I see a lot here.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

Fair enough Baron, no harm here.

In keeping with the tone of this thread one of the "other" things we have to worry about besides the devout anti is our own delivery of the pro message.

Yes we have to take an aggressive approach and stand up for no compromise but if we simply try to shout and bully the undecided then all we will accomplish is turning them away.

I unfortunately didn't pay enough attention in my Dale Carnegie classes and am a poor spokesman... but I try.

 

[mcdonl]

I'm sick of the anti hunter mentality of this place. Name calling and saying not to trust us is a bad idea.

I am a hunter first and foremost.

Not just a mall ninja who collects pistols, tactical attachments and ebr's (See how that feels?)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[76shuvlinoff]

I think the first priority is to unite all gun owners and quit trying to make sacrifices to appease the the grabbers by throwing the other guys under the bus.

This is a paranoid and destructive path.




.

 

[ZeSpectre]

I think the first priority is to unite all gun owners and quit trying to make sacrifices to appease the the grabbers by throwing the other guys under the bus. This is a paranoid and destructive path.

Divide and conquer, that's how the anti-rights types make progress.

 

[ball3006]

The gun club I belong to...

the Haltom City Rifle and Pistol Club in Haltom City, Tx, is populated by alot of "fudds" that have been complaining about the C&R and black rifle shooters for years. So, they took a different tactic and banned surplus ammo. "They" say that ammo is damaging their new backstops. Divide and conquer is in full swing at this club. I have been a member for over 20 years, but no longer.

I agree the schools are brain washing students into the liberal mindset. My SIL works at an eastern college and she said she supports obummer because that is who all her co workers support. Her husband is another side of the coin. He has a sub gun and is an avid shooter.

I just hope some of the Democrats, who are pro gun, don't toe the party line and vote for any gun control....chris3

 

[SuperNaut]

Lots of high sounding enemies we have listed but no mention of the real enemy. Liberals are the enemy...that means Democrats and a few ..only a few Repubs. They are not mentioned because many here don't connect dots. If you are a big union person you are supporting liberals with your dues and the 2nd amendment is not all you will lose as a result....:banghead:

It's okay, I'll keep fighting for your 2A rights even though you classify me as an enemy. Because this fight is bigger than petty politics and arbitrary L/R divisions.

 

[ZeSpectre]

a lot of "fudds" that have been complaining about the C&R and black rifle shooters for years

My rifle and pistol club had a similar issue but in late 2011 we got a change in the bylaws to clearly state an "all for one and one for all" attitude. We also got some teeth into it by included a suspension policy for "prejudicial behavior" towards other members. It's worked pretty well so far.