I was assualted today by a motorist

[keederdag]

yea, definitly good job on the charges, I think you have made sound decisions all they way through. In Az, our justification law is based on the premise of what a "reasonable Person" would do. All of your actions sound reasonable to me. Really think about the O.C. though, it's good stuff, and handy for dog's too, if your still jogging.

 

[Blain]

The question is, do you think if you had the gun you would have shot him isntead? Would that have made you a criminal instead? What would a jury think?

 

[keederdag]

I'm gonna say they wouldnt have any pity, I know this sucks, but that's what Ive seen happen so far. You'd do some time for it.

 

[Mark Tyson]

OC can be formidable stuff, but there's guys out there who can soak it up without any ill effects. Remember, in some places cops are sprayed with OC to familiarize themselves with it. They then have to execute an arrest while it's still active. Impact weapons are good too, but I've seen so many guys take serious punishment from sticks and fists and the like that I am not really a fan of them. Even if you're in good shape, there's only so much you can do. Remember, a lot of thugs lift weights every day in prison and train on martial arts, for years while doing time.

I'm not disparaging martial arts and the utility of non-firearm weapons. All these things are necessary for a well rounded self defense system. However, I think mastering fighting with empty hands, improvised weapons or impact weapons takes a lot of time an dedication that many people may not have.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[keederdag]

Yea, I follow, but I'd like too see the good guy's avoid having to get soap on the roap in a family care package. I met a guy who had conditioned himself to take O.C. like mento's. This was not your average guy though! Out here cop's get sprayed once at the accademy, and Ive never met one that wanted anything but HEEEEEEELLLLP after. I know I didn't. I have been dosed by C.S., Mace, and Capstun 15%. Capstun is by far the worse one. I think I'd rather take a shot in the jewells, since Ive had that often enough I use it as a point of reference, on the uncomfortability scale. Capstuns Worse. At leste it's immeadiate effects

 

[spartacus2002]

If Agent7 had been beaten to a bloody pulp in front of his buddy and subsequently died, would we all be talking about what a fool he was since he didn't draw and display his gun?

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Allow me to clarify my previous post...

First, I was operating under the assumption that you thought your life was in danger. If not, then clearly you should not mess with your gun.

If you get punched in the face, I think that declaring you are armed by showing the weapon would not be considered brandishing. That was my main point with what Grampster had said. It would not necessarily mean I would draw the gun, nor shoot, unless further attack was carried out against me.

In the end, I think you sort of have to be there to make a good choice on how exactly to react.

Underestimating the power of the fist of a deranged man could be a lethal mistake.

 

[spartacus2002]

Great points brought out by all.

However, it saddens me that our society has gotten to the point where we have these how-many-angels-can-dance-etc. discussions over whether a guy could/should draw and point a pistol and say "back off" to a stranger who has driven up, gotten out of a car, and started beating him.

I always wonder if the frequency of these beatings would decrease if people knew you could draw and brandish your weapon if you were about to get a nonlethal beating.

 

[standingbear]

youre lucky in a way. he could have rammed your car and then got out and continued his assault.people like this are nuts..theres no guessing how they would react.you did good now go make that report and burn the control freak.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Spartacus,

No one knows whether a beating is going to be lethal or not til its too late.

If I had a crystal ball and could tell a beating would be nonlethal, I guess I would not declare, draw or fire my weapon, but just try to defend myself with fist and foot.

 

[pax]

It occurs to me that this story and the one at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40687 have a lot of similarities.

The only reason the outcomes are different is because of the intent of the perpetrators -- not because of anything the victims did or didn't do. Both victims were completely dependent upon the mercy of their attackers.

Me, I think it's a durn good idea to carry your gun all the time. You never know.

Agent7, I'm glad you came out of it ok.

pax

 

[Agent7]

My approach to allowing the attacker to see the gun (which did not work in this case because my I was taken by surprise) has worked for me in the past and will always be my first order of defense. I firmly believe you should never let an aggressor get close enough to attack you if you are aware he is an aggressor.

Let's review:

1. Show him you have a gun by hanging it by your side. Tell him to leave immediately or he will be shot if he advances. Call the cops and tell them what happened. Be truthful!

2. If he still advances after you show him you have a gun, point the gun at him and reiterate that you will shoot him if he does not immediately stop his aggressive advancement. If he stops, order him to vacate the area immediately. Call the cops and tell them what happened. Be truthful!


3. If he does not stop and he is less than 23 ft from you (Texas is 23 ft.), begin firing at his torso until he drops. Call the cops and tell them what happened. Be truthful! Tell them you fired in self defense and describe your clothes and appearance. Advise them as to the condition of the perp.

This is my mantra that I have lived by for 25 years.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

23 feet seems kind of far to be shooting an unarmed man.

 

[Agent7]

Pax, that story is so sobering as to what can happen if you are not prepared. I am thankful my attacker was of a more sane variant. It could have just as easily gone for the worse. I personally feel this is proof why you should always take the steps I have itemized below. Because......you just never know.

 

[Thumper]

For me personally, six inches seems pretty damned far to be shooting an unarmed man. Tueller drill be danged.

My view only.

YMMMV.

 

[gunsmith]

I have pepper sprayed alot of people

Drug addicts sometimes can take quite alot before the fight leaves them.
The last time I sprayed someone I had to draw my sidearm and point it at him to get him to stop advancing. As I was leaving the spray kicked in.
imho if spraying doesn't stop someone who is an obvious threat the next step is drawing the sidearm.
With the many street junkies I have sprayed I have noticed you have about 4 minutes to get away from them before they are ready to fight again.
San Francisco is a wonderfull place to experiment with pepper spray!
You will get ample opportunity to use it on weekend nights in the polk st tenderloin area and the strip club area on broadway.All you have to do is say "no I do not have any spare change" and they will want to fight
Good luck with your court case I hope you succeed.

 

[Agent7]

I think you have to realize if a man continues to advance on your position after he's been advised visually that you have a gun, and he has also been warned verbally that he WILL BE SHOT IF HE CONTINUES, he would had to have been intent on doing bodily harm to you if he continued. Wouldn't you think a rational person would just walk away at that point?

 

[Thumper]

Of course, Agent. But if I draw everytime someone comes within 23 feet of me who might be a threat, even at night, I'm gonna have a lot of holster wear. Hefty lawyer bills, too.

People get approached all the time...least I do. Must be my wit and charm.



If I had some kind of physical impairment, my view might change on all this. Again, YMMMV.

 

[Agent7]

"Of course, Agent. But if I draw everytime someone comes within 23 feet of me who might be a threat, even at night, I'm gonna have a lot of holster wear. Hefty lawyer bills, too."

"People get approached all the time...least I do. Must be my wit and charm."



Thumper, Of course you don't draw on EVERYONE that comes within 23 ft of you.

This goes without saying, you have to determine when someone poses a serious threat. Typically, a guy coming at you rapidly and yelling he is gonna kick your azz, or saying he's gonna kill you would be considered a serious threat. Someone walking past you on the sidewalk, smiling as they push a baby carriage, and eating ice-cream... would not be considered a serious threat.

 

[Ian Sean]

While I have little to add to the shoulda, woulda, coulda's, I am curious on the eventual outcome, please keep us posted. I do agree with those that have stated that this guy needs to be arrested and have a record NOW! I believe next time this guy will really cross the line.

 

[keederdag]

I was headed to the range, about 1 month ago, and our brillaint local DOT, changed some traffic control sighns in a construction area where I live. Anyhow I, not paying attention, pulled out into traffic and stoped. I was thinkin things were still like the had been for about 6 months. Stupid assumption I know! Anyhow There wasnt much traffic, just some road equipt., but this guy comes whippin around said on-coming backhoe at about 65mph in a 25mph zone, Right at me. I didnt figure out what was wrong till the last minut, and got out of his way. In the rearveiw, I see him pull off the side of the road, grab what looked like a mag-lite and start runnin across 3 lanes after my truck. Being a inbred/hillbilly type I didnt like this, so I stopped. He's screamin #$#@! you, and this and that, and advancing on me. Now I have a yugo 48 mauser and a 91 nagant rifle on the seat. It crossed my mind..... I told him that was a good way to get shot and drove off. Yea, I coulda pop'ed him....and gone to court, and maybe prison. Or I coulda pulled one out and scared him stiff, and gone to court and maybe prison. But I did the right thing (for a Change) and left. People who know me, My wife, friends, familiy, say that I'm a lot more dangerouse/ short fused when I dont have a gun. I admit, I like to fight. I have kickboxed competitivly for fun. Been bruised, stitched, patched, casted ect. But I will go to great leanghts not to shoot anybody. This guy was half my size and puny. If the gun's werent there I may have stuck around. I have done worse before (poor judgment, due to selective inbreeding). Anyhow my .02. Guns are a last resort, to defend a life.... BIG PERIOD, at leaste in my book.