I was assualted today by a motorist

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Regarding pursuing a criminal case against him: Gee, do you think this is the first or last time this hothead has punched somebody? At least get him arrested or convicted; even if it is plead down, it will (a) build a rap sheet on him for the next time he's in front of a judge, and (b) might help get him fired, depending on his job. Plus, a judge might not be very lenient with an ex-cop walking around hitting folks. Wouldn't it be icing-on-the-cake if you found out how many citizen complaints he had against him as a cop and that he's an ex-cop because he got fired for abuse?

Regarding pursuing a civil case against him: Many personal injury attorneys will work for a contingency fee, meaning you only pay costs of filing, photocopying, etc. They will only bill you for hours worked on the case if they win. Additionally, he might have some form of renter's insurance that will pay for his liability in a case like this.
 
Spartacus2002,
There are attorneys that work on a contingency basis but unless you find one out of law school trying to build a practice, you won't get one working for a couple thousand dollar settlement in an assault case.

Not trying to discourage, but unless anyone has been involved with the legal system directly, very few times does justice ever really prevail.

More often than not it boils down to a compromise of the legal system.
 
Agent,
I just want to let you know not to feel like you did something wrong or that you could have handled it much better. The guy sucker-punched you and took off. If you'd had your pistol, your first opportunity for a shot would have been into his back....not a defensive move.

I wonder if you could get a restraining order against this thug while this plays out?

Good luck,
BamBam
 
had something similar happen to my wife and I although I wasnt assaulted, a guy in a Saturn comes behind me on the hwy and starts driving like a maniac, guess I wasnt driving fast enough, he pulls next me flashes a badge and tells me to pull over, I dont see a uniform or agumball machine on the roof so I kindly tell him @$#% you and keep driving he continues his charade and finally drives off doing the same to others as he goes, my wife calls Ill. State Police, explain situation was told, "what do you want us to do about it?" explaing guy maybe a nutball and so on was told "well maybe he is a police officer" I said that I doubted it, asked if I wanted ti file complaint said Yes, was put on hold for 20 mins before I hung up. I have lost a lot of respect for law enforcement in the respect that they usually wont do anything until a serious crime has already been commited, how did Guliani clean up New York? by busting scum for small things before they do worse. Next time I will tell the police 'he told me he has a gun' and see what kind of response I get. Yes I was told by several on this forum that i should pursue the complaint but after the attitude I got it didnt seem worth it. I often think that this guy will end up getting himself killed acting in this manner, but I think that you are doing the right thing just wanted to show a different point of view.
 
It turns out the guy has lived in Texas (or had a Texas DL) since 93 and his criminal record in Texas is clean (A PI friend ran it for me). I guess the APD will run a federal check when they see me about the warrant.

I know the drill on this. I had been thru a situation with a crazy neighbor about 10 years ago. I finally hired a PI and found out that he had numerous convictions for violent behavior and drug use for a 30 year span. This guy would beat his wife and kids up every 2 weeks and nothing would ever happen to him. He even threw his 17 year old daughter out of a 2nd story window. And still the courts would not prosecute because the family would not testify against him. There is really no justice. It's only a facade that the naive believe exists. Anyone that knows the real justice system, knows there is no justice.
 
No need to agonize over it.

:confused:

A crime was committed, blood was spilled, property (shirt) damaged.
The guy is a tragedy waiting to happen.
Report it before he does worse.

Thanks,
Larry
 
YO MOOSE, ROCCO............................BREAK THIS GUY'S LEGS !:evil: J/K ;) Sorry. This kind of thing should not go unpunished. If we all got mad every time someone cut us off on the road, It would be SRO in the courthouse every day. That guy needs to learn some self control and a little common sense.
 
A word about your .40 being in the glove box....In this case, probably it was a good thing because I wonder if you would have brandished the firearm or worse? Especially since he sucker punched you. I've read this entire thread and no one has really brought up the idea that, yes, firearms are for protection and defense (among other things) but in a hot situation that is not necessarily a mortal one, a firearm might escalate the situation. Hot powder needs cool heads.

You mention that you were thinking that the pistol was not on your person while the assault occured. Perhaps being preoccupied with thinking about the weapon you didn't have, you allowed yourself to let down your guard? That is perhaps a good reason for not separating yourself from your weapon in the first place. But on the other hand, if you had been carrying it, what would you have done with it under the same circumstances?

The lesson here is more about the gun than the battery. We saw what happened when it was in the car. What difference would it have made if you had had it on your hip? If any?

It appears the perp, after he hit you once, had second thoughts about continuing the assault for some reason and left. But if you had pulled your .40, what then?

No criticism here......just food for thought for all of us.

grampster
 
Sorry if this was mentioned before - I started skimming part way through :)

You mentioned that you work at a secure facility, and you were coming back from lunch, right? That means you were in your parking lot, right? Does your company have video cameras looking at the parking lot? If so, yopu may have evidence against the guy...
 
Tricky situation - can you use deadly force or the threat of deadly force to stop an unarmed assailant? If the perpetrator is disproportionately larger and stronger than the victim in this case, then I think Agent7 could have made a case for self-defense in the event that he used his gun. Let's say the victim is sucker-punched and falls to the ground and the bad guy starts advancing again. I would say that you are justified to draw a weapon and command the attacker to stop. That would probably end the incident right then and there. If he keeps coming, it would seem justifiable to shoot. Yes you have a duty to retreat in some places; this was addressed on another thread. But if you've been attacked, injured, and knocked to the ground I don't see how you can retreat. I'm sure you would not be justified in shooting him outright just for hitting you, but I think you would be justified in using your weapon to prevent further injury.

What does the state expect you to do: drop your weapon and engage in hand to hand combat? Allow yourself to be pummeled? You're defending yourself for crying out loud! Of course it doesn't matter what I think, it matters what the local DA and a jury of your peers think.

Tactically, there's a problem of how to engage a big, strong assailant at extreme close range or when knocked to the ground. Police have number of training methods to use, I guess we'll save that discussion for the strategies and tactics forum.

This guy sounds like a bully, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was kicked off the force for abusing his power.
 
Grampster,

I was watching an NRA sponsored program over the weekend, and they made the statement than 98% of all self defense uses of a handgun involve only a display of the gun.

After an unprovoked punch is thrown by someone acting crazy who claims to be an "ex cop" (and would therefore perhaps have some fighting skill), I dont think you could fault someone for pulling the gun. Personally I would have been afraid for my life if I had been in that situation.
 
I'm trying my best to stay out of this one; everytime I try to say empty hand techniques are important, I get jumped all over.

Gramps is right.

I've been in two physical altercations since I started carrying a gun 24/7 in '91. Both were sucker punches...actually, one was a sucker club from behind. I'm glad I chose not to draw or shoot either time.

On the second occasion, I actually had to get the responding officer to dig my glock out of it's IWB before I let the jack*** who clubbed me get up.

Not trying to be macho. If I'da shot in either occasion, I probably eventually would've gotten off, but it would've cost me a fortune.

Shouldn't even mention it, but it's pretty dadgum satisfying to physically hurt those who are trying to hurt you.

Agent, I have no idea how this thing went down. Sounds like a good thing that you're pursuing it. Don't let "what I shoulda done" keep you up at night. The guy was way outta control and I hope he goes to jail.

At the same time, I still contend that there is such a thing as a simple fist fight. A gun or knife shouldn't be the only tool at your disposal.

My personal rule is that I won't draw until I'm in fear for my life or the life of another. My rule...doesn't have to be yours. This situation doesn't fit the bill for me.

Only my opinion, no flames please...Cut or shoot whoever you like.

Lone_Gunman, this is probably the only time I've ever disagreed with something you said.
 
Agent7
Should I call the Airport Security and notify them of the case number before a warrant is signed?
Click to expand...

Just a thought, might you setting yourself up for some sort of liability if you were to do this before he is found guilty or a warrant is signed out? Of course you know he is guilty, but is not yet, in the eyes of the law.
 
Lot's of great info...thanks!!

Let's examine this situation. The guy was originally thought to be asking if we needed help (Texans do this all the time when you're on the side of the road). Then he gets out of his car and comes towards me (just thought maybe he wanted to chat about my new car or ask directions). I was shocked when he became aggressive in his advance (at about 10-15ft). I was even more shocked when he punched me. What if he had continued to attack and punched again, and knocked me to the ground, and then decided he wanted to kick me to the point that I was in critical condition with permanent injuries? My point is you just never know how far someone like this will go, so it's better to stop it before it ever gets to the point of a blow being thrown.

If I had had the gun within reach, I would have grabbed it as soon as I saw the guy coming at me in an aggressive manner. I would have initially held the gun at my side in plain view and instructed him to stop. If he stopped, I would tell him to get back in his car and leave. I would then call the cops and inform them of what happened. If he did not stop, I would have raised the gun and ordered him to cease his advance. If he did not stop after that, I would have fired until he did stop. I would then call the cops and tell them I just fired in self defense and tell them what I'm wearing and what I look like.

If I had the gun on me and he sucker-punched me without any warning, I would pull the gun and order him to stand back and cease his advance. If he stopped I would call 911 and hold him at gun-point until the cops arrived. If he came at me again, I would shoot him. Then call the cops...

Just so you guys know, I have extensive firearms training but I am not at all a good fist fighter. The last thing I ever want to happen is to be rolling around on the pavement and throwing blows. There are no winners in these fights...only the guy that has the lesser injuries and more teeth.
 
Agent7, no need to defend yourself. I'm not second guessing you. You were there.

I'm merely stating my own personal outlook on these things. That being said, I don't think I'm alone.

I'd hate to think that the anti CCW folks are right and that every physical altercation will deteriorate into a shooting.

I will not draw unless life is in danger. (Property, for me, is situational...I can see that, too.)

If you felt your life was in danger, then that's your business.

(Hindsight being 20/20, we know it was your lip and not your life, but you had no way of knowing that.)
 
LG,

I am aware of the stats and agree that the threat of overwhelming force is a good thing. But this thread just got me thinking, again, about the responsibility that bearing arms lays on one. I think, today, if one goes about armed one needs to be properly practiced, and thoughtful about situations and surroundings. Trouble can come from many directions and without warning, as in the situation this thread describes. Agent 7 thought the guy was going to offer help and he winds up on his keaster.

We are a pretty bloodthirsty lot on THR, at least in print. (chuckle)
But it always better to back away, if possible. Self defense always starts with common sense. If all else fails, then go for COM till he drops.

:D

PS I always like it when Thumper agrees with me. I just wish he would tell me where I can get Shiner Bock in Michigan..heh
 
Agent 7, I gotta agree with Thumper, I am not a Lawyer, but I do have a degree in Criminal Justice. I live in AZ; mebe things are different in TX. but shooting an unarmed man (If you are male, and reasonable physically sound) just doesnt fly in court. Here, you are pretty much gonna do some time. Jurors tend to think men can take care of themselves, which is why female cops can get away with Bad-shoots more than male cop's. The prosecuitor, in the hypathetical case, would argue that this was only a case of mutual combat, until you decided to pull a gun. I have several friends that are County D.A.'s, these guy's would prosicute in a case like this. I'm glad, in this situation, you were unarmed. It doesnt sound like you could have done much really. I've studied martial arts/boxing/kickboxing for about 12 years, and I would have reacted no differently. There is no way you could have predicted this guy sucker-punching you. I doubt you do/want to live your life with the mentality that everyone is a potential threat, that you may have to shoot. That's no way to live. Do what you can with the law; and if you feel you need to square it, wait till he wont see you commin.:D
 
It's cool guys. I really appreciate all the feedback. I was not defending myself, only stating how I would handle a situation.

I am 45 years old and have had 2 occasions in my life to which I drew my weapon on an aggressive person. In one case, simply showing the weapon at my side gave the guy reason to just turn and run. In the second case, I held the weapon at my side and instructed him to leave. He kept coming and I pointed the cocked 1911 (safety off) at his head at about 6ft. He froze and looked at me w/ incredible hostility for what seemed like 2 minutes (was probably about 30 seconds). I thought for sure I was going to have to shoot him. I had the slack in the trigger taken up and the gun pointed at his head. After what seemed like an eternity, he turned and walked away. These 2 instances happened when I was in my twenties. I have been hassle free until yesterday.
 
I guess I should add that I was diagnosed about 3 years ago with a tumor in my chest that is 4"x9" long. It's benign and sits squarely in between my 2 lungs and next to my heart. It stopped growing so I decided to leave it and not undergo open heart surgery to have it removed. The negative to leaving it in, is I cannot handle intensive physical activity for more than just a few seconds due to the pressure of the tumor on my heart. If I were to get into a fist-fight, I would be out of breath and gasping in a matter of seconds. I feel my only option for defense is a firearm.
 
Agent 7, were these guy's armed? I have pulled mine twice, on guy's I thought were armed ( wasnt positive though). Only once in a "both of us armed" situation. I have never had to pull on an unarmed person, but I have been sucker-punched quite a few times; I dont look back and wish I had a gun though, I just wish I had reacted faster.:)
 
Sorry, didnt see the Med-Prob before I posted reply. Maybe you should think about cap-stun, A.S.P. makes a really cool kubo-baton/pepper-spray device that fit's on a keyring. It's also aluminum and very light weight. The pepper foam is great stuff too, but Ive only seen it in larger containers. Trust me, Ive been sprayed, he wont want any after you dose him. A couple good kicks to the scroat, and you back to happy motorin. He wont have your licence plate....guy's like this are only thinkin really short term.:D
 
The 1st guy was the crazy neighbor that beat his family that I mentioned earlier. He was getting aggressive on the road I jogged on near our houses, and was threatening to kick my azz. Simply pulling my Airweight .38 Bodyguard from the CD case I worn around my waste and holding it at my side, was all it took to convince him to leave.

2nd guy was armed. He had a .25 auto in his waste band. I could see it thru his t-shirt. He was drunk and had sucker-punched another guy in the bar. He came over to me and smacked my arm as it lay on the bar. That's when I drew and backed up about 10 ft.
 
I hear ya...and you're right. Again, you know your situation a lot better than I do.

I got slammed by quite a few folks awhile back for advocating empty hand techniques over gunplay (when possible) and Runt read me the Riot Act. :D

Everybody's situation is different. I respect the way you handled it.
 
Agent7,

Your work situation sounds a lot like mine.

I'd suggest getting some Fox OC and carrying it weak side concealed. Your employer doesn't need to know about it as it's not a firearm/weapon.

Had you had the Fox handy and your attacker had continued to attack you would have had a less than lethal alternative to stop the attack.

Given your medical condition you might want to look at a good cane, a Cold Steel City Stick comes to mind. A good whack with that would dissuade most attackers.

Also, good job on pressing charges. This sounds like a scumbag that needs to be gotten off the streets.

Semper Fi
 
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