I was attacked by 2 dogs this AM...

[10-Ring]

I was on my morning run through my neighborhood. I had made the turn down one street & noticed a garage door that is normally closed, was open & had 2 dogs playing in the driveway. When they saw me, they came after me. I noticed them coming after me, we were about 25' apart. Each dog tried to grab a leg. I kicked one and the other bit my leg. The bite isn't bad. The owner was right behind the dogs as they took off and was able to easily get them back on his property really easily.
My question is this...after all my talk of carrying a gun while I run, or pepper spray or something, this AM, I only had me & my house key. I was able to defend myself vs. one dog, but the second was more than I could deal w/ in the short amount of time. What would have been the best way to handle the situation & what are considered the minimum things to carry while on a short (3 mile) neighborhood run?

 

[Oleg Volk]

They key seems to be a non-bouncing, well-fitted holster. Kahr P9/Glock 26 are light enough not to cause back problems from unbalanced load (add a mag pouch on the weak side) and somewhat effective. P32/SW317 are easier to carry but won't work as well. I've done short guns with a G17 but that gets uncomfortable after a while. A female acquaintance jogs with a G26 in a pouch, says it is comfortable...I just prefer IWB or belt holster. A baton may be as useful...hard to aim on the run or in low light.

I wouldn't carry pepper spray -- you will end up breathing in some of it and that's bad, esp. when you are already winded yet yneed to be functional.

 

[10-Ring]

What is the legality of shooting an attacking dog(s)? Taking into consideration I live in CA & surpirsingly don't have a permit to carry
I feel the most disturbed at the fact I easily handled one dog, but the 2nd one was just more than I could handle w/o assistance of some sort (firearm, etc).

 

[Schuey2002]

How about carrying one of those collapsible batons on your waist ??

They don't appear to be too bulky..

 

[10-Ring]

Found out y recently batons are a no-no in CA...

Maybe I should just be happy I was only bitten on one leg! :banghead:

 

[Kevlarman]

Kevlar pants next time you go out?

Or how about a cane or sjambok?

 

[10-Ring]

You ever try running w/ a cane? Not fun

 

[CWL]

Suggest you carry pepper spray. It can be held in easily-accessible pouch, where a non-CCW gun will get you in trouble.

Take a photo of that leg bite & any tears you may have in your clothing. CA has leash laws and someone letting two aggressive dog roam is irresponsible. If they bite you, they'll bite others -like children. Animal control might need to talk to this guy about leashing/fencing his animals.

Next time bring along a lawyer & video camera.

 

[Drjones]

Hello fellow subject, er, Californian.

Well, as you may know, carrying batons of any sort is a FELONY in CA, whereas carrying a firearm w/o a permit is a MISDEMEANOR.

I agree with Oleg that the spray is a bad idea, since you very well may inhale at least some of it, and you would be particularly sensitive to it being already winded.

That said, a shooting will obviously draw a LOT of attention, and be a HUGE legal hassle. Probably interfere with your right to own guns to some extent.

I'd go with the baton. Keep in mind they can get heavy, unless you go with an ASP airweight, though those definitely have their drawbacks.

I think a baton may actually be preferable to a gun for dogs because I have read stories of dogs being surprisingly difficult to take down with bullets. Break their leg with your baton and I don't see how they could continue aggression towards you.

Furthermore, how well could you hit a moving target with a bullet?

Let me know if you want more info on batons; I know a lot about them.

Hey, are you coming to the Sacramento THR shoot? Where in CA do you live?

Stay Safe
Drjones

 

[scottgun]

Pepper spray is best, imo. Get the kind that shoots a stream versus the kind that shoots a mist, it's alot less likely to blow back in your face. Spraying it with your arm fully extended pointing downwards toward fido, there is little, if any likelyhood that it will blow back into your eyes or face. Spraying a person who is taller that you while you are going into a strong headwind could cause the spray to blow back in your face. Get an extra one to practice with, and find out its limitations. Non-leathal defense is the way to go, especially with the dogs owner a few paces behind.

 

[Quartus]

In California, a cane (or similar object) if carried for defensive purposes, may wind up being a felony. Discrection of the DA and all that.


:banghead:

 

[BerettaNut92]

10-ring, I was unable to get ahold of my animal control buddy this morning, sorry....

In the meantime, I'd get a fast opening clippy knife on each side in case one arm is immobilized? I have an Emerson on one side but not the other. I need a left hand knife.

 

[pax]

Guns are better for two-legged predators. For four-legged predators, it's hard to beat a stick.

Why not try your run with walking sticks? http://walking.about.com/library/weekly/aa071000a.htm No one will look twice at you, since nordic walking has gotten so popular. And if attacked by a four-legs, you can feed it the sticks, pointy ends first.

pax

 

[spacemanspiff]

i've used sprays on several occasions to thwart a dog that thinks attacking me is "fun". if you're on the move its not that difficult to use the spray and stay out of its mist.
the can says its useful up to 20 feet, but i've always let the dogs get as close as possible so they get as much as possible in the face/eyes/nose/mouth. it isnt the best solution, as i had one pit bull sneeze off one blast and come back for round two. i gave it to him and hauled tail.

even though i now ccw, i still have a bottle of oc spray in my backpack. one of my neighbors has a dog that will charge and bark but its mostly bluff, as long as i dont turn my back on it. the weird thing is, he doesnt do it to anyone else. my roommate says its because i'm afraid, and the dog senses it, but i'm not afraid. i dont run from it, i'll walk right up to where its at. i think it feels i'm trying to be the 'alpha'.

 

[2dogs]

I was attacked by 2 dogs




I was no where near there, I swear, I have witnesses.

 

[10-Ring]

2dogs, don't worry, these 2 were alot shorter & hairier than you!

Actually the owner was a couple seconds behind his dogs. Strangely, he said that his dogs had never attacked anyone before, but the way they just ran at me, it's hard to believe they've never done that before. He said that because of the rain the last couple of days, the back yard was flooded. He had his dogs in the garage area so he could clean up the back a little bit. The more I think about it & the more I run things through in my head, I feel that I wasn't the first these dogs hve gone after.

 

[Quartus]

pax, in California a walking stick MIGHT be construed as a club, particularly if you use it as one. And a club can be considered a felony.


10-ring, your comments about the dogs doing this before are troublingt. Have you considered filing a report with the badge wearing folks? As much as I hate having to go that route, if these dogs are in the habit you just might be saving a life if they are put down. Maybe a little kid's life.


In a civilized society, of course, you'd just shoot them and be done with it.

 

[BerettaNut92]

10-ring, I got an idea.

I'll run by see if it attacks me. If it does, we'll charge the dogs for a hate crime

 

[XLMiguel]

10 - I'd definitely call animal control on the idiot for failing to secure his dogs. At the minimum, you need to document the incident in the event there's another, and to put the clod on notice.

Pax- Trekking poles are wonderful. I got us each a pair last winter after I blew out my knee (ruptured quadraceps) and my wife has some balance problems from brain surgery-. We like to hike around the local parks and nature trails, but the uneven terrain was challenging. Tungsten carbide tips are very effective for gripping on all surfaces, and ouuod be similarly effective for puncturing the hide of infriendly critters.

 

[The Reaper]

How about carrying a tennis ball(s). You can squeeze one in each hand while you run to build hand strength. If a dog runs at you or gives chase toss the tennis ball in his general direction or away from you where you want it/them to go.

Most dogs I've run across, even aggressive ones, will chase the ball. Also I don't believe carrying a tennis ball is illegal in California...yet.

Definitely document your encounter officially. This may have happened before and may happen again. Your report may help someone else out. My neighbor had two very aggressive Rottweilers. The third documented time they got out they went after a yard full of kids at a day care. Yes, Rotts can climb chain link fences. Fortunately, no one was injured, but I'll bet there are a few more kids in the world who are now terrified of dogs. The dogs were removed to a kennel down state.

 

[BobK]

10-ring; Carry a BIG stick......make a good hardwood stick by cutting off an old rake handle, about 2' long for easy carry. I
doubt there is any law against carrying a stick when you feel threatened by dogs. When they go after your legs, just swat
'em good in the nose!
After an incident, make a full report to the local police. File charges against him, for not having control of his animals. After a
visit from the police, he'll change his ways pretty quick!
The dogs should learn their lesson...even if the owner does not! BobK

 

[crawfordew]

Before I had to quit running (med probs) I carried a rock in each hand. I used them several times to fend off dogs, it worked for me. I think dogs have an instinctive fear reaction to seeing a throwing motion. Now I bike and walk for exercise. Walking I carry an Irish blackthorn stick which I've had to use once on a dog. Biking I carry pepper spray (stream type), only used it a couple of times in 10 yrs. usually don't have time to grab it in time to do any good.

In my locale it costs a $150 fine if your dog attacks anyone even without biting. A call to animal control would be a good idea, I don't know the laws where you live but it couldn't hurt.

Gene

 

[VaughnT]

Definitely go with a baton or OC stream spray. The legal repurcussions can be dealt with in the newspapers more easily than in the courts. Use the media against the DA!

Skunk, Emerson charges $25 to drill and tap one of their knives for a left-side clip. It is incredibly stupid of them to make an ambidextrous thumb opener and them only allow for a righthanded pocket carry. For their touted combat experience, you'd think that they'd have thought about southpaws and the like. Heck, lowly Benchmade makes most of their models with moveable clips and an ambi blade lock.

 

[Baba Louie]

Good thing you only got bit by one and not both.

A 3-Iron can also be a good dog destructo device I'm told. And it doesn't look too evil.

Ask your Attorney what a good dog bite is worth to the bitee (home owner's policy should start talking at about $20,000...) then call your agent and ask what kind of claims they get and the average amounts settled per claim.

Also ask your attorney, since he'll more than likely quickly sign on to help you process your claim (should you choose to pursue that line of action), what type of device you could carry legally, what the process would be if you destroyed the dog/property that assaulted you and the dollar amount associated with each act...the bite and the dead or injured dog/property and see what kind of ordeal you'll probably be forced to enter into if you keep running by this guys house as is your wont.

A baseball bat or indian clubs can also be carried as part of your upper body and cardio workout while you run and would put the hurt on most K9 types. You may still get bit tho'.

If you do talk to your attorney and/or insurance agent, would you let us know what kind of advice THEY give you as opposed to THR members, eh? I kinda like to know what the answers are in CA.

Are you sure you still want to run in that neighborhood? Maybe you could run a little faster?

Adios

 

[Quartus]

I doubt there is any law against carrying a stick when you feel threatened by dogs.

Some of you guys just don't get it - this is California! It IS against the law to carry a stick for defensive purposes! They call it a club and they can charge you with a FELONY!

Yes, the jurisdiction counts - any urban area and your're likely in deep doo doo. Rural areas are a toss up - it mostly depends on the makeup of their major population centers, since those folks pretty much elect the DA and sherriff. (Just because of their numbers.) Riverside County, for example, used to have a very ANTI sherriff, even though most of the county is rural. (Desert, actually.) Kern County had a very PRO sherriff until the last election - you could get a carry permit with no problem. (Don't know about the new guy.)

As for using the media against the DA - HA! The media is as left as it gets! In Orange County (a Republican stronghold at one time) the DA brought felony charges against an elderly woman for firing a gun into the ground in front of her house. She was trying to scare off a gang of teenagers who were assaulting her husband. The papers all sided with the DA.


IOW, don't count on common sense or reason having anything to do with such matters in California!