CoRoMo
Member
Air conditioning, in and of itself, pretty much dictates which era I prefer to live in.
I was born a 100 years too late
- Thread starter sonier
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jfh
Member.
Well, lest this post go all-PC on us and discussion ends...
we do need a more-rounded perspective.
My world was like harmonic's world--i.e., I was born in 1945 and grew up in the Fifties. I was white, as was the small city I lived in, in Western Minnesota. I didn't get polio--but the slightly-younger boy across the street did.
The (white) culture with regards to firearms was different--and in important ways: At the age of ten, I would carry a (cased) .22LR rifle the six blocks down to the NG armory once a week for marksmanship training, and I bought the ammunition myself. No cops were called when people saw me doing that. Needless to say, many laws exist to prevent this now, and arguably, a majority of gunnies would condemn what I did, by today's values.
The point is, we do now have--ever since 1968 (before, really; it started with the RFK and MLK assassinations in 1967, not to mention earlier ones in the '60s)--a vociferous antigun mentality that has very effectively countered the integral / cultural element of firearms desirability in our society. And, without maintaining that integration, the succeeding generations will have to fight a disproportionate, antigun activism. Not every state has, nor will pass, anti-sting laws to control the Bloombergs.
Meanwhile, the gun subculture benefits Sam identified are there, to our great benefit. The next major task is--is what? How can we build off the shall-carry / carry legislation?
Jim H.
we do need a more-rounded perspective.
My world was like harmonic's world--i.e., I was born in 1945 and grew up in the Fifties. I was white, as was the small city I lived in, in Western Minnesota. I didn't get polio--but the slightly-younger boy across the street did.
The (white) culture with regards to firearms was different--and in important ways: At the age of ten, I would carry a (cased) .22LR rifle the six blocks down to the NG armory once a week for marksmanship training, and I bought the ammunition myself. No cops were called when people saw me doing that. Needless to say, many laws exist to prevent this now, and arguably, a majority of gunnies would condemn what I did, by today's values.
The point is, we do now have--ever since 1968 (before, really; it started with the RFK and MLK assassinations in 1967, not to mention earlier ones in the '60s)--a vociferous antigun mentality that has very effectively countered the integral / cultural element of firearms desirability in our society. And, without maintaining that integration, the succeeding generations will have to fight a disproportionate, antigun activism. Not every state has, nor will pass, anti-sting laws to control the Bloombergs.
Meanwhile, the gun subculture benefits Sam identified are there, to our great benefit. The next major task is--is what? How can we build off the shall-carry / carry legislation?
Jim H.
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THe Dove
BOOMER SOONER!!!
No internet!!!!! No High Road!!!!! And just when did Jack Daniels get formulated to perfection?????
The Dove
The Dove
sonier
Member
First off try being 19 years old and teaching a 50 year old drunk denver part timer gun safety, I get no respect whatsoever, I lived 4 years no running water and two years of no running power or electricity so you cant hold that over my head, I HAVE NO TV, I hand shear my own sheep not electric buzzers, I take a file then sharpen them after shearing half of the fleece, I break my own horses I have 2 that are green broke but the best well behaved horses you will ever see. I butcher my own livestock, I am growing 10 acres of quinoa an aztec grain that can be a replacement for wheat. I also have dairy goats yes they get milked every day, anyone ever make homeade farmers cheese? I have. In winter time this year I plan to run a trap line through the wet mountains which is my backyard. I live at 9100 altitude and it gets cold. I choose not to use propane I dont have a tank even hooked up, I have a wood burning stove in the living room and in winter time to stay in shape I split my own firewood with a maul. I was indeed born at least a 100 years too late.
leadcounsel
member
You have the ability to focus on the laws and effect changes. It may not seem like it, but if you are REALLY wanting to make changes, you do have the outlets to at least try.
Conversely - when I was about 13 or 14 I was hit in the mouth by a baseball and it was only due to strong pain meds and modern oral surgery that my front teeth were saved. 100 years ago I would have been in agonizing pain and likely had to have all my front teeth extracted. I imagine that most people here have either directly or indirectly benefited from modern science and medicine (themselves or their families).
Conversely - when I was about 13 or 14 I was hit in the mouth by a baseball and it was only due to strong pain meds and modern oral surgery that my front teeth were saved. 100 years ago I would have been in agonizing pain and likely had to have all my front teeth extracted. I imagine that most people here have either directly or indirectly benefited from modern science and medicine (themselves or their families).
FirearmsEnthusiast
Member
It's a pitty we can't challenge people to duels anymore 
sonier
Member
Im not arguing that modern medicine has helped many, it has. this is off topic though.
gun sales indeed are through the roof, But it is not kids who are buying these guns, my generation is not usually that concerned with what is going on. I would love to tell you all of you about my story of this family farm and, that is self suffiecent even if the world fell apart, but this would be severly off topic. my point is there is too many gun laws due to many idiots who have made it harder for responsible gun owners. I have seen this in person effect my generation, ammo prices are through the roof, no kid is going to want to work for minium wage and spend all of his money for ammo too shoot just a few times. I self taught myself reloading at age of 16, I saved my coin and bought all my gear. I dont know one person or friend around my age that has done that, there are many kids who reload but its there parents or grandparents or family that had the equipment and taught them, I had to teach my self.
gun sales indeed are through the roof, But it is not kids who are buying these guns, my generation is not usually that concerned with what is going on. I would love to tell you all of you about my story of this family farm and, that is self suffiecent even if the world fell apart, but this would be severly off topic. my point is there is too many gun laws due to many idiots who have made it harder for responsible gun owners. I have seen this in person effect my generation, ammo prices are through the roof, no kid is going to want to work for minium wage and spend all of his money for ammo too shoot just a few times. I self taught myself reloading at age of 16, I saved my coin and bought all my gear. I dont know one person or friend around my age that has done that, there are many kids who reload but its there parents or grandparents or family that had the equipment and taught them, I had to teach my self.
sonier
Member
firearm enthusiast you made me laugh A LOT
A LOTSam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Also, always remember that the prices of items like guns and ammo have risen, but not nearly as much as we think -- and sometimes they've actually fallen -- when you consider the changing value of the dollar.
Some folks have posted some very interesting case studies here on THR regarding what a nice S&W revolver, or a Winchester rifle or shotgun, or a box of ammo, or pretty much anything else, would have cost at mid-century and compared it to what a working man would make in a month. Sometimes you find that folks had to scrimp and save for a long time to buy a nice gun. Probably quite a bit more than we do these days, actually.
Remember as well that most of the folks who shot and/or hunted, had one or two guns -- maybe ever. Now, most of us consider ourselves not terribly well rounded if we own less than ten, twenty, fifty...or whatever. Disposable income -- at any level -- is somewhat of a new concept.
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I'm familiar with the area where Sonier lives. It used to be several large ranches and they were broken up into many 40 acre "ranchettes", many of which were bought by people from California, who typically bring their politics and fear of guns with them.
Sonier's neighbors probably thought there was some law against shooting guns.
Sonier's neighbors probably thought there was some law against shooting guns.
Tallinar
Member
Well spoken points, Sam. Thank you.
buck460XVR
Member
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ahh, the innocence and immortality of youth. Enjoy and cherish it while you can Sonier. You will soon come to appreciate the quality of life we in America have now, and the limitless choices we have. The ease of our existence and the amount of time and monies we have for fun stuff(like shooting guns). Hopefully it will continue for you and my kids alike. Altho it's too bad about your azzbole neighbors, it seems to me, for you at least, other than that, life is good. You did nothing wrong and have been cleared by the local authorities that you're good to go. Enjoy the ride...........
sonier
Member
thanks buck
There have been times when I also wish I'd been born earlier. It would have been fun, exciting and adventurous to live 200 or more years ago. However, modern day conveniences outweigh all that. Hard to imagine living without cars, planes, computers, modern day medicine, telephone (at times) and the many, many inovations of our society.
As it stands, I only missed being born 100 years ago by 30 years...........
As it stands, I only missed being born 100 years ago by 30 years...........
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MADDOG
Member
I was born in the mid 40's and I made it through the 50's, 60's and the 70's. I feel lucky as I know many who didn't. I still carry a pistol that was designed 100 years ago and a 30-30 levergun. Both are accurate and easy to maintain. I still use cast iron cookware and 40 year old Coleman lanterns, and they all work well also. You can still use the things of old. You don't have to buy the new imported wares that they are selling. I am glad that I am here now, in 2010. I kinda like it.
leadcounsel
member
I don't have any statistics handy, but I suspect that 100 years ago ammo was quite costly and 'hoarding' or shooting thousands of rounds (like many folks now do) would have been unheard of.
Also, the amount of skill and training we have available would have been unheard of. Look at pictures of military folks shooting pistols back then... they stood tall, like a jouster, with the strong hand forward hold the handgun out like a rapier and the off hand on their hip!
I look at the level of health, education, weatlh, skill, happiness, places I've traveled, experiences I've had (SCUBA, flying, snowboarding, travel), the conveniences I have (lights, water, plumbing, medical and dental health, convenient healthy food, body armor, private self contained mode of fast reliable transportation anywhere in the nation in hours or days, comfy bed, heat and air conditioning, music, movies, amazing TV, paid vacations, computer, internet, etc.), and all the other benefits of modern life... you can wax nostalgically about the past century but I agree that this is really about the best time and place to live in history. Nearly all of my experiences, abilities, and potential would have been unheard of, or nearly unheard of, a century ago.
Men died at 45, had miserably hard lives, fought in incredibly violent and bloody wars, lost their women to childbirth and their children to common diseases regularly. I suspect most families had very little property, maybe one or two guns and a few boxes of bullets. Vacations were unheard of. Savings were kept in a cigar box. Insurance was probably rare, and a single disaster would have meant poverty. Transportation was your feet, a bicycle, or a horse. You were lucky to be literate. Lucky to have a stable household and food and water and your health, and that was about it for 'middle class.'
I'll keep 2010, thank you!
JWF III
Member
Let's see,... 100 years ago,... maybe for a month or so. Otherwise, I'll stay right where I'm at.
I'm 34 yo. My grandfather died just 7 years ago, he would be 101 right now. I spent a bunch of time talking with him about the "good ole' days".
As the second child, he started working the farm at the age of 8. He took the mule and the plow 5 miles across the swamp (wooden bridge) to work the breastworks left over from the Civil War. (Yes a mule and plowing the battlefield, now a state park.) Schools closed down for planting time and harvest time. His father died (influena pandemic) when he (grandfather) was 11. (His father ~40, can't remember the exact date of birth). He hunted for survival, "bushwacking" quail in order to kill as many as possible with each shot. There were no deer or turkey in the area. (Each is overpopulated there now.) He never got to shoot "just for the fun of it". Just like most of the people of that time. There were no "hobbies" at that time, money was too hard to come by. And things we consider hobbies, they were survival at that time. He (and several friends) left home in their early 20s (Depression Era), took their (don't know whose, it wasn't my grandfather's) Model T west, and followed the crops ready for harvesting. Working sunrise to sunset, six days a week, for the change we'd loose in seat cushions or on the floorboard of our car.
No thanks. Today may not be the "good ole' days", but neither were they. A month or so, I'd love, mainly just out of curiosity. But only if I could return to current times.
Wyman
I'm 34 yo. My grandfather died just 7 years ago, he would be 101 right now. I spent a bunch of time talking with him about the "good ole' days".
As the second child, he started working the farm at the age of 8. He took the mule and the plow 5 miles across the swamp (wooden bridge) to work the breastworks left over from the Civil War. (Yes a mule and plowing the battlefield, now a state park.) Schools closed down for planting time and harvest time. His father died (influena pandemic) when he (grandfather) was 11. (His father ~40, can't remember the exact date of birth). He hunted for survival, "bushwacking" quail in order to kill as many as possible with each shot. There were no deer or turkey in the area. (Each is overpopulated there now.) He never got to shoot "just for the fun of it". Just like most of the people of that time. There were no "hobbies" at that time, money was too hard to come by. And things we consider hobbies, they were survival at that time. He (and several friends) left home in their early 20s (Depression Era), took their (don't know whose, it wasn't my grandfather's) Model T west, and followed the crops ready for harvesting. Working sunrise to sunset, six days a week, for the change we'd loose in seat cushions or on the floorboard of our car.
No thanks. Today may not be the "good ole' days", but neither were they. A month or so, I'd love, mainly just out of curiosity. But only if I could return to current times.
Wyman
The flip side of the coin is that back in the day, there was no such thing as concealed carry unless you were a LEO. That was for Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Florida and Ohio, places I lived at one time or another.
I can also tell you that deer hunting was banned for some time in Indiana due to declining populations.
In some respects, gun laws are actually better now than fifty years ago.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
To illustrate:
Oh, and the map has continued to improve since that .gif was created!
MCgunner
Member
That, and I appreciate local anesthetics when I go to the dentist.
Gun and personal property rights aside. I think the biggest disservice we do to ourselves with all of these rules and regulations is to breed ourselves into idiocy. Allow me to explain:
Several years ago I needed a pickup to get some stuff. I didn't own one at the time, so I swapped vehicles for a couple of days with a buddy. His truck being a couple of years newer had a legally required clutch safety switch that would not allow the starter to engage unless the clutch was depressed. Now my car didn't have a clutch lock out.
Well, I've done my errands, and he comes up to my work and swaps back out. After work, I get in my car - after only a 2 day absence - and already being used to his 'safety device' of a clutch lock out realize that I had trained myself to rely on it. I stuck the key in, turned it, and then pushed the clutch. Not a problem with his truck and it's idiot proofing, but with my car that you needed to think to be safe in I nearly launched into the plate glass window of my work. So, in 2 days I'd been idiotfied (is that even a word).
Now apply that to guns etc, and you see where we're safety regulating ourselves in to unthinking morons. Now I'm not saying safeties on guns are bad things, but in not allowing us to ANYTHING that MIGHT hurt us we're training ourselves to rely on either mechanical safeties which can and will fail from time to time. Or regulatory safeties that require government enforcement which can only happen after someone is hurt. In the meantime we're dumb and happy thinking we're safe. Whereas if we forced ourselves to think to keep ourselves safe we'd all be much more conscientious and truly safe.
In proof reading this I see I've just made the argument for survival of the fittest. In this case the mentally fittest, but so be it. The flip side to freedom is responsibility, and if we abdicate our responsibility to the designers of our devices or our government we will ultimately find we've abdicated them our freedoms also.
YMMV
Several years ago I needed a pickup to get some stuff. I didn't own one at the time, so I swapped vehicles for a couple of days with a buddy. His truck being a couple of years newer had a legally required clutch safety switch that would not allow the starter to engage unless the clutch was depressed. Now my car didn't have a clutch lock out.
Well, I've done my errands, and he comes up to my work and swaps back out. After work, I get in my car - after only a 2 day absence - and already being used to his 'safety device' of a clutch lock out realize that I had trained myself to rely on it. I stuck the key in, turned it, and then pushed the clutch. Not a problem with his truck and it's idiot proofing, but with my car that you needed to think to be safe in I nearly launched into the plate glass window of my work. So, in 2 days I'd been idiotfied (is that even a word
).Now apply that to guns etc, and you see where we're safety regulating ourselves in to unthinking morons. Now I'm not saying safeties on guns are bad things, but in not allowing us to ANYTHING that MIGHT hurt us we're training ourselves to rely on either mechanical safeties which can and will fail from time to time. Or regulatory safeties that require government enforcement which can only happen after someone is hurt. In the meantime we're dumb and happy thinking we're safe. Whereas if we forced ourselves to think to keep ourselves safe we'd all be much more conscientious and truly safe.
In proof reading this I see I've just made the argument for survival of the fittest. In this case the mentally fittest, but so be it. The flip side to freedom is responsibility, and if we abdicate our responsibility to the designers of our devices or our government we will ultimately find we've abdicated them our freedoms also.
YMMV
Hatterasguy
Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2010
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Things have improved a lot in just the past 10-15 years.
I remember when AR's were EBR's and it looked like they would be outlawed at some point. Now the AR is the everymans rifle. Like the lever action .30-.30 of 100 years ago.
I remember when AR's were EBR's and it looked like they would be outlawed at some point. Now the AR is the everymans rifle. Like the lever action .30-.30 of 100 years ago.
sonier
Member
I loved the map, I guess things change theres pros and cons for everything, i think its just personal preferance at this point.
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