I was cleaning it and it went off!

[Father Knows Best]

From the Houston Chronicle yesterday:

Sleeping Woman Killed by Neighbor's Stray Bullet
by Jennifer Leahy

A woman who was asleep in bed just after midnight Friday was killed by a stray bullet from a neighbor's gun in northwest Houston.

Debora Foglegreen, 52, sat up in bed just seconds before she was hit by the bullet that is believed to have accidentally discharged while a 30-year-old man was cleaning his rifle.

"It's bizarre. The bullet traveled through at least two walls," said Sheriff's Office spokesman Lt. John Martin.

The incident occurred at the Ascot Court Apartments, 10910 West Road.

Foglegreen died at the scene. The man has not been charged and the incident is still under investigation.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4407310.html

Darwin misfired on this one. The idiot with the rifle should have shot himself.

 

[Manedwolf]

"It's bizarre. The bullet traveled through at least two walls," said Sheriff's Office spokesman Lt. John Martin.

Nice to know that the Sherriff's Office spokesman is so incompetent that he knows NOTHING about ballistics. :banghead:

And yes, he should be charged. That's what you call a Negligent Discharge, and why the only place a rifle should be pointed while pulling the trigger is into a sandbucket. If you live in an APARTMENT, you should pick up a paint pail and a small bag of "sandbox" sand and keep it in your closet. IMO, there's no excuse not to.

Because when this sort of thing happens, not only do innocent people get killed, but the antis get more excuses, that "rifles are too dangerous to neighbors, look!"

 

[Walkalong]

Darwin misfired on this one. The idiot with the rifle should have shot himself

Gets my Vote!

 

[El Tejon]

Rule #4 only applies to single action autos.

 

[rkh]

This is sad all around.

Not only is the woman dead, but the NDer's life is over because of a dumb mistake and freak coincidence. He's going to spend years in jail and lose his house because he didn't clear the weapon properly.

No snide remarks about darwin, please. This could have happened to anybody.

 

[Manedwolf]

This could have happened to anybody.

Nope. No more than backing your car over a kid because you didn't look could happen to anybody.

Personal responsibility. He was unsafe. He killed someone. He has to pay the price, to ensure that SAFE gun owners can continue to own their firearms.

Otherwise the antis win, because they can claim that guns in homes are inherently unsafe, and that's not the case.

 

[Don Lu]

I dont really think it could have happened to anybody.... maybe anybody who doesnt follow the rules but. A N/D while cleaning a gun could only happen to someone not observing the rules (there are only a few major rules to remember)..I feel bad he has to live w/his mistake, but do not believe it could have happened to anyone.

 

[rkh]

can you honestly say that you have never inadvertently broken any of the 4 rules?

Human beings make mistakes. This guy just got profoundly unlucky. Would you feel the same way if he was son, or your father?

 

[Manedwolf]

RKH, you're not realizing something here.

If you say "it could happen to ANYONE with a gun in their home", then you're making the antis gleeful, because by that logic, having a gun in a home is inherently dangerous to the neighbors and can kill them. Because it can happen to anyone. It's the universal boogeyman for a universal ban on all firearms that they've always dreamt of.

Your argument, there, is what they'd love to be able to use to claim that nobody should have a gun in a residential property, ever, at any time, because what happened here could happen to anyone.

Do you understand?

 

[Jackal]

This could have happened to anybody.

I can honestly say that I have yet to shoot anyone. A person has no excuse for poor firearm handling and I belive he should be prosecuted. Murder, no. Manslaughter, yes.

 

[pangris]

No snide remarks about darwin, please. This could have happened to anybody.

I disagree. This happened because the individual was sloppy, and it cost an innocent woman her life.

The first thing I do when I pick up a weapon in my home is confirm its condition with the muzzle in a safe direction - i.e. the floor.

 

[Sean Dempsey]

I do not own any rifles and have little experience beyond my little .22 I had growing up... but is there not a way to open/check the chamber in most rifles? Honestly, maybe there's something I am not getting about cleaning guns, but when I clean my XD's, I eject the magazie, then eject any chambered rounds, lock the slide back, and then visually and physically inspect the chamber to make sure nothing is in there.

Maybe I am naive when it comes to rifles, but surely most of them have a way to check and be 100% sure "YEP THERES NOTHING IN THERE!"

Or are most of these "cleaning" ND's simply from people assuming its unloaded and pulling the trigger without taking ANY precautions to inspect the state of the weapon? Do they go "well, I am pretty sure I unloaded it last time I used it 3 weeks ago, so I'll just point it at the wall and pull the trigger before I clean it!"

I don't get it. Yes, accidents happen, but it seems that the accident is "I didn't check the chamber" and not "I accidentally pulled the trigger." Or to use the car analogy, its like driving with your eyes closed, as opposed to not checking your blind spot.

Seriously though, its an honest question, what makes rifles so much harder to validate their state of loaded/unloaded?

 

[antsi]

-----quote--------
can you honestly say that you have never inadvertently broken any of the 4 rules?
-------------------

Usually for an ND to kill someone, you have to break two or three rules simultaneously.

 

[Zero_DgZ]

How do you clean a gun with a round still chambered? Unless you're wiping it down with Pledge and a cloth, isn't an integral part of the process running a brush and patch through the bore? Tricky, with a round still chambered in there. Even tricker without opening the action...

I think it's a convenient excuse. We see it parroted far too many times. More like "I was playing with it and I set it off."

What a dingus.

 

[Manedwolf]

Seriously though, its an honest question, what makes rifles so much harder to validate their state of loaded/unloaded?

They're not. Chamber check is basic safety before you do anything else. Remove mag if it has one. Pull the handle, look in, and there's either a thing with a headstamp and primer visible in there, or there's not.

I also say "Don't trust the extractor, look anyway." I've seen people pull a charging handle and expect that if there's something chambered, it'll be ejected. Problem is, if it wasn't, if a round was stuck, they've also just cocked the gun, and pulling the trigger will fire it.

 

[rkh]

Life is inherently risky. Good people get careless and do dumb things with motor vehicles, lawn mowers, turkey friers, golf clubs, and yes--from time to time--even guns. Freak accidents happen.

Any anti that becomes gleeful at my admission that human beings aren't infallible is sick.

All I'm saying is that I feel really sorry for everybody involved in this horrible story.

 

[Caimlas]

"I was cleaning it and it went off!" seems to be to be the excuse a person would use if they killed their wife, then thought, "Oh sh*t, I've got to save my hide" and cleans it in a panic thinking they're hiding evidence. THen, when sanity strikes, they realize that won't hide a damn thing - thus the excuse.

That's not what happened here, evidently, but wow is it a weird coincidence!

 

[Sean Dempsey]

My CCW instructor taught our class to:

a) put your finger in the hole on a semi-auto where the round would be. Every time. Then, hold the gun up and check it again to make sure nothing it stuck in there.

b) count the empty chambers in a revolver, out loud.

I do that every time, I've never known different.

 

[Gbro]

1. Thank you to the member that gave us the knowledge to keep a pail of sand in our den/workroom for clearing a firearm. This will be passed along to all my student in adult and youth classes.

2. To all of you that balk at the statment "It could Happen......"
We need to humble ourselves, Bad things can happen, There has been an occasional UD in firearms safety classes around this great nation of ours. It Happens!. The recall on the older modle 77 R....(tang safety) has to do with a trigger overtravel set screw. The fault that resulted with this set screw having a poor nylock tab, was it could move into the trigger and the fault would go somthing like this; The safety is moved to fire, trigger is squeezed, gun failes to go off as the stricker failes to be released. Now you open the bolt handle and the movment of the bolt handle causes the striker to fall, was the muzzle still pointed in a safe direction? was it in the home because it didn't fire???

3. This fall at the rifle range durring sightin days, three (Known) times rifles were loaded with the wrong cartridge(no injurys thank God). These confusing cartridges, The casual shooter is confused, 7mm? look at the different loadings just in that one.The extractor may not pick out one that is wrong for the gun. (IF IT CAN HAPPEN.........).
I posted this a couple years ago on another board;
http://groups.msn.com/THEGUNROOM/ca...essage=15384&LastModified=4675463384251835513
http://groups.msn.com/THEGUNROOM/ca...essage=15384&LastModified=4675463384251835513

4.Darwin? Who the HELL is he??

Gbro

 

[Gbro]

http://groups.msn.com/THEGUNROOM/cartridgeboard.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=15384&LastModified=4675463384251835513My link didn't get pasted anto tha last post

http://groups.msn.com/THEGUNROOM/ca...essage=15384&LastModified=4675463384251835513

Its a copy/past link sorry it didn't work for me again, and i used the link tool on the review pad??

 

[RNB65]

The man has not been charged and the incident is still under investigation.

He should be charged with involuntary manslaughter. If you're going to own a firearm, the responsibility is entirely on you to own and operate it safely. If you fail to do so, you face the consequences. Killing someone and claiming it was an accident should not be a valid defense.

 

[gwine]

4.Darwin? Who the HELL is he??

A reference to Charles Darwin, proponent of evolution. There is a website devoted to the Darwin Awards which gives out awards posthumously to people who do their part to prevent the human gene pool from propagating stupidity (i.e. they kill themselves.)

Humorous in its own twisted way, but a sad reflection on humanity.

 

[Father Knows Best]

How do you clean a gun with a round still chambered? Unless you're wiping it down with Pledge and a cloth, isn't an integral part of the process running a brush and patch through the bore? Tricky, with a round still chambered in there. Even tricker without opening the action...

I think it's a convenient excuse. We see it parroted far too many times. More like "I was playing with it and I set it off."

+1.

I don't believe for a minute that he was really "cleaning" the gun. Most likely, he intentionally and quite knowingly loaded it, and was playing with it. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that 99% of the cases of "I was cleaning it and it went off" are people making excuses and trying to cover up their own juvenile, idiotic, careless behavior.

This guy should get locked up for a LONG time.

 

[iiibdsiil]

Everyone says "It won't happen to me."

 

[panzermk2]

as long as you don't break any of the rules you won't have ND . Can't happen starting with your finger off the trigger and if the gun does malfuction and go off it will be pointed in a safe direction .

The bucket of sand is a great idea. When I lived in an aptartment i had one. Now I am thinking it would be handing to have one again in my gun room.