If a Security Guard ask.

[sensei]

I did a search and could not find anything on this.

If you are at a business establishment and they have Security Guards on premises and they ask you, "What's in the pack? or even if for some other reason they ask if you are armed, are you obligated to tell them you are armed?

I was at the Mall the other might and overheard a Mall guard ask a young man (I would guess in his late 20's or early 30's) "Hey man, What you got in your pack?" We were not in a store... so I don't think...the guard was thinking the young man was shoplifting. What rights, if any, do Security Guards have?

I may have gotten in trouble. I probably would have told him, "It's none of your business."

Certainly a genuine LEO will get my respect and any information I can give him. But a Guard, I think not.

I'm in Texas.

sensei

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

As a lady security guard myself it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to know what others think of me....now I know why everyone flips me the bird when I ask them to comply nicely. All the more reasons why I think my company should let me carry my piece on the job. You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with just a kind word....

If you're asked what's in the bag, you are obligated to show it if for security purposes. If you have a permit for your firearm, you shouldn't have any reason for concern. Had it been me that asked you to open your bag, I'd have done nothing if you were within your rights to carry -- except maybe to send you on your way if you had no business being in an apartment complex or building I was watching....

 

[spacemanspiff]

a security guard is not a member of law enforcement. therefore, they have no business knowing anything about me. i will not submit to a security guard that attempts to frisk me or search any of my belongings.

 

[spacemanspiff]

in some malls i see they employ armed guards. armed or not, those guards only have authority to ask me to leave the premises, or to call police when i dont comply with their demands.
granted, i doubt Mastrogiacomo would display a powertripping bad attitude, but that type of guard is far and few between.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

Granted, but if I'm watching a residence and ask to see ID and you refuse, I'll remove you by calling for back up. If I'm guarding a store and suspect you of wrong doing and you refuse to show me your bag -- again, I'll call for back up to force you to comply or explain your attitude problem at the police station. Fortunately for me, my back up is often cops on their second job.

Should add that while my authority is definately limited, put your hands on me you're going down -- guard or not. I find it unfortunate guards don't have more authority on the job -- as someone with a M.Ed. and Class A permit -- it be great if there were some security companies that could offer their employees more than an opportunity to use harsh language....

 

[repsychler]

All the more reasons why I think my company should let me carry my piece on the job. You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with just a kind word....

Am I to take it you think you should be able to threaten someone with a gun because you think you have the right to search their belongings?

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

Obviously not, but at least it allows me to be safe on the ride home particularly in the event that I piss someone off while on the job. It also gives me more of an appearance of authority which a badge and run down patrol car clearly don't. To be blunt, even on an armed post the gun would be useless when dealing with the public unless you were fired upon first...

 

[Tamara]

All the more reasons why I think my company should let me carry my piece on the job. You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with just a kind word....

No, you'd still get told "Sorry, ma'am, but it's none of your business."

again, I'll call for back up to force you to comply

I'd strongly suggest that you ensure that your employer has been keeping up with their unemployment insurance payments before you attempt to "force" me to do anything.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

I wouldn't have to force you or anyone Tamera -- you'd just receive a nice police escort off the property....

 

[Tamara]

you'd just receive a nice police escort off the property....

...and I'm completely cool with that.

 

[sensei]

That would be fine.

 

[jsalcedo]

I mean no disrespect but no one is going to search my belongings wthout a warrant.

I will not be detained by anyone other than an identified police officer.

Private security guards can ask me to leave the premises and that is it.

If one lays a hand on me I will respond with force and follow up with a lawsuit.

That said,

I have chased shoplifters and confronted thieves but they were caught red handed. They just dropped the mechandise and took off running. I would write down the license plate and contact the police at that point.

 

[Bainx]

Here, here!

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

Well here's a few facts from Boston -- if I'm guarding an apartment complex that has this policy for non-residents, you'd receive a police escort for not letting me view your bag. If you're licenced to carry -- I wouldn't care. My only concern would be just to check your bag is that was the policy I was expected to carry out. If I'm guarding a business -- particularly one in fear of a hostile employee and you're the one visitor that hassles me about not letting me check your bag, I'm calling in back up. Not because you're carrying a legal gun but because you won't comply with the company policy like everyone else.

If in a store and I had to check bags for people coming in -- same thing. I don't care about legal carry guns -- just the policy. I personally have never asked to check a person's bag -- I usually catch shop lifters in the act of stupidity. However, if I was guarding a theater or providing security at a concert and they wanted us to check bags for weapons, I'd have to. I may not agree with the policy myself -- and don't for legal gun owners -- but if the theater said Laura, no weapons, licenced guns or otherwise allowed, I'd have to follow orders and call back up if you refused. It's not a law that the theater or mall put it in writing.

I got caught myself when going to the Tango but with a knife I almost forgot to remove from my coat. Thank Christ I remembered. I think it's a 9/11 thing and it was the first time security asked to inspect my pocketbook before going in. I'm still a little shocked they did this to all the ladies and somewhat pissed at it because I don't think it was right.

 

[spacemanspiff]

Should add that while my authority is definately limited, put your hands on me you're going down -- guard or not

.

mastrogiacomo, perhaps you could provide us with some insight upon your job. you mention the question of 'whats in the bag?'; well what exactly is your employers policy? as a security guard, what are the parameters of your duty?
up here in alaska, very few buildings actually employ full time security. its mostly contracted out to a company that has its employees drive around to various locations to check on their premises, check all the doors and parking lots, and thats it. so i have no real clue as to what you do in your job.


as far as what i quoted above, are you authorized to put your hands on someone? do you have arrest capabilities?

 

[DMK]

What if the mall supervisor or owner asked to see the contents of your bag or pockets? Would you allow them to violate your 4th amendment rights?

I mean no offence to those in the security business, but they are agents of those who own the mall and therefore have no more authority than those who hired them.

Now myself, I'd ask politely what all the hubbub was about. If I was treated politely and with respect, I would return the treatment.

If I was told that somebody matching my description stole an item, I would ask what the item was(to avoid a witchhunt) and only then open the bag for them to see that said item was not inside. If it was, I would instead show the reciept which I always keep in my pocket. I would not hand over the bag or item.

I also would never carry a weapon off body in a public place like that. Search of my body would not be tolerated. If it was demanded, I would leave never to do my business there again.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Only sworn law enforcement officers have the legal right to detain and/or search me, and then only if they have probable cause to believe I've committed a crime. Any security guard who attempted to violate my legal rights would be warned in advance, then sued in court if he or she persisted.

This is the United States, not the old Soviet Union, communist China, or England.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

Security guards have no rights really but if someone put their hands on me, I'm taking them down in a painful way as I'm allowed to do if assaulted. One of the buildings I worked had a policy that residents needed to show ID as proof of residence. Visitors had to be let in by the residents or leave, workers by their employers or leave. All packages coming into the apartment complex had to be clearly viewed by me. In the event that they refused, I called back up (cops) who'd take it from there. I work at a store downtown now. If I ask to view a bag leaving the store and the person refuses, I call back up and they handle it. This would be the same procedure for stores that routinely check bags from customers in this area: Best Buy and Guitar Center to name two. I don't have any legal rights but I'd gladly take that notebook to write tickets for parking violations...

 

[TallPine]

If I ask to view a bag leaving the store and the person refuses, I call back up and they handle it.

And by then said person is long gone, right ...?

Unless you intend to practice unlawful detention.

 

[Ladybug]

In Arkansas, the owners or employees (security personnel, sales people, etc.) of a store have a right to "detain in a reasonable manner and for a reasonable length of time" any person giving rise to a presumption that they are shoplifting. A PEACE OFFICER may arrest without a warrant "upon probable cause for believing the suspect has committed the offense of shoplifting."

I'm all for asserting your rights, but if you're not breaking the law, and they DO have a lawful right to detain/question you, you're WAY better off complying - if I'm carrying legally I'd just tell them, if I'm not shoplifting and they want to see what's in my bag, I'll show them. They're just doing their job, and I have no reason to make their life difficult JUST BECAUSE they're some sort of "authority figure." But that's just me and I know a lot of people feel differently.

 

[spacemanspiff]

so what happens when a customer refuses to show you the contents of a bag? do you detain them? or write down their description and get a license plate number for police to follow up on?
who is your backup? local police department? you said something earlier about off duty cops or something, i forget.

what is the purpose of viewing packages going into the apartment? looking for explosives? is there some forbidden materials that cannot be allowed inside?
who benefits from such security measures?

 

[Ladybug]

TallPine - I'd read the laws in your state before causing trouble and assuming that they would be "unlawfully" detaining you.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

If the person leaves, not my problem. That's why I have a radio and the area I work is surrounded by cops. I'm not concerned. I can block their way but if they go past me -- not my job. That's what the back up is for.

 

[spacemanspiff]

I'm all for asserting your rights, but if you're not breaking the law, and they DO have a lawful right to detain/question you, you're WAY better off complying

no disrespect intended to those who work for security outfits, it is a living, not sure if i can really call it a *honest* living as i suspect there is some intrusion upon individual liberties, but i digress... like i said, no disrespect, but good luck getting a law abiding person like myself to comply if you are not a member of law enforcement. i wont lay my hands on you, but if you lay hands on me and you are not law enforcement, its gonna be a fun ride.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

Personally, I don't get paid enough to care about you (customer, resident, visitor, or employee) so I wouldn't bother to touch anyone that hasn't tried to hurt me. I don't see how doing my job would violate anyone's rights. I don't force you to work in a building, or shop in a store, park in a fire zone, or visit a business where you're no longer employed. You don't like it, go elsewhere. I don't check anyone without cause or unless I'm following orders -- if I don't like it, I don't have to accept the post. I've turned down a couple so far...