If being assaulted what would you do?

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Personally, I have no issues with same size fights as I keep myself in shape and have experience. I use a 30% rule in size and weight advantage because that is the point that I start to experience difficulty with like skilled training opponents.
 
2. Draw your weapon, finger off trigger, but don't shoot
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If I chose this option, what happens next?

Do we both stand there and trade smiles?
 
Obtain as much footage as possible between us. Then I'd draw, turn, and face. Then he'd either stop while I call 911, run, or continue forward and be sporting a few new holes.
 
This is one of those unanswerable exercises in mental masturbation that seems to pop up here with seeming regularity. I tend to think that, while it's worthwhile to ponder possibilities, the truth is that you will only be capable of knowing the answer when the time comes: if the assailant is Pee Wee Herman, you probably should not resort to deadly force. However, the average Joe--particularly the type of average Joe who would commit a battery out of the blue--presents a real danger of serious physical injury or death.

This also emphasizes the notion of having a reasonable grasp of the law applicable to your situation. Here, in the least gun-friendly state in the Union (Illinois), most don't have the right to carry a gun, but the statute that addresses self-defense permits the use of deadly force in situations involving a the commission of a "forcible felony," a somewhat broader justification than is recognized in some other states.
 
Personally, I have no issues with same size fights as I keep myself in shape and have experience. I use a 30% rule in size and weight advantage because that is the point that I start to experience difficulty with like skilled training opponents.
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Me too. If the other guy is more than 30% my size and weight, I'm in trouble.
 
I don't understand all the shades of gray people are writing into this. If he's a lot smaller, weaker than you then maybe pistol whip him. If he's anywhere near your size, then draw your gun and if the attack continues, shoot him, dead.

"He went for my gun, so I shot him..."

It seems like madness to fight/wrestle somebody when you're carrying a loaded gun on your person. If he overpowers you, he may very well take your gun and kill you. If you begin to overpower him, he may very well snatch your gun to even the odds. You really are in imminent danger of death or grievous bodily harm, as they say.

I'm assuming this is some crazy stranger on the street, not your drunken cousin Jimmy at the family BBQ.
 
I would never assume that a stranger that suddenly attacked me, unprovoked, is unarmed. Especially if the person is the same size as me. And I'm not that big, or tough. The person would have to be crazy, stupid or have a weapon or friends close by to make such a bold move. A gun isn't the answer to every situation. That is why I also carry pepper spray. At the first instance of physical contact, our hypothetical attacker would get hosed down with pepper spray.
 
You think it's a good idea to shoot to kill, or......SAY you would shoot to kill in a hypothetical situation posted on a public internet forum?
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You're being assaulted. There's a gun involved (yours). If he's your physical match or better, I can't think of a better time to draw your gun and then if the attack continues - use it. If you're pointing a gun at him and he comes at you, he IS going for your gun. Any other assumption is foolish.
 
Shoot him, perfectly legal in OK.


Former DA Schulte is our former county prosecutor. In an 18 month period Schulte declined to take three self defense shoots to the grand jury. Personally, I probably would not have killed this big dumb kid:

http://concealed.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/stand-your-ground-law-in-oklahoma-upheld/

LAWTON — A state prosecutor cited Oklahoma’s “Stand Your Ground” law in announcing that no charges would be filed against a man who shot and killed a teen who appeared to be a burglar.

Comanche County District Attorney Robert Schulte said he plans to take no action against Jeffrey David Dorrell, 40, who shot and killed Frederick Stuever, 17.

Dorrell arrived at his father’s home Tuesday afternoon to find Stuever leaving the home with the family’s property. The back door had been kicked in, and officials believe the teen was attempting to take things from the home.

Items belonging to the homeowner were later found in Stuever’s vehicle, police said.

Dorrell, who has a permit to carry a concealed weapon, held Stuever at gunpoint while he called the police.

While on the phone with dispatchers, Dorrell ordered Stuever to lay on the ground until the police could come. When Stuever would not comply, Dorrell fired five shots in his direction, but did not hit Stuever.

Dorrell told police that he shot Stuever when the teen charged at him. Stuever died at the scene.

Schulte said under the “Stand Your Ground” law that went into effect on Nov. 1, 2006, Dorrell was within his rights under the law.

The law broadened self-defense rights by removing the requirement that a person who is attacked has a “duty to retreat” before turning to deadly force.

It specifies that people can use deadly force if they believe they are in danger in any place they have a legal right to be. It provides immunity from criminal charges and civil liability.

Three other people, unrelated to Stuever or Dorrell, witnessed the shooting and backed up Dorrell’s account, Schulte said.
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You never shoot with the intent to kill. You shoot with the intent to stop his actions. He may well die as a result, but if you are in a shooting, and the DA pulls your internet logs and sees that you INTENDED to kill someone, your self-defense claim just took a negative turn. To read your post, it sounds like you were LOOKING for an opportunity to kill someone. This is not a game. Your words can harm you.

The details the OP provides do not definitively justify deadly force. Only someone in the situation knows whether or not they genuinely felt their life was in danger. I have been hit before. By someone bigger than me. I didn't kill the guy. I never thought my life was in danger, nor could I have convinced a jury that it was.

It doesn't matter if your state has a 'stand your ground' law. You must still be able to articulate why deadly force was necessary.
 
You never shoot with the intent to kill. You shoot with the intent to stop his actions.
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Not quite. The saying "shoot to stop, not to kill" was supposed to be a handy way of remembering that ordinarily, FORCE MUST MATCH FORCE. When the attacker no longer poses a risk of imminent deadly force or serious injury--that is, when they have stopped, you must also stop shooting. Falling to the floor and/or dropping the weapon and complying, for example. There are no coup de grace shots allowed out of spite.

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that your PERSONAL INNER INTENT must be free from any desire to kill the man trying to kill you. Self defense laws do not look at your inner motivations. You may indeed want to kill him, and by firing bullets into you your INTENT will be presumed. Certainly it wasn't an accident. An accident cannot be self defense.

and the DA pulls your internet logs and sees that you INTENDED to kill someone, your self-defense claim just took a negative turn.
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Only if you post something that supports some theory that you knew the man and that the entire self defense scenario was really a set-up to cover first degree murder. That's not exactly common.
 
johntaylorny said:
Here is the situation:

You are armed. An unknown individual that is 1) of the same physical size/build as you and that 2) you are 100% certain is NOT armed with any type of weapon tries to rob you on a public street. He begins physically assaulting you with only his hands & feet (punching, slapping, kicking).

Your only options are:

1. Allow the assault to continue, try to run away
2. Draw your weapon, finger off trigger, but don't shoot
3. Shoot him

We were taught always #1. That when a person of your equal size who has no weapon never equals the threshold of imminent death to yourself and therefore you cannot draw your weapon.
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Simple, that's one dead attacker...
 
How is this unrealistic?

When you are challagend by a member of the same species you have 4 options: fight, flight, intimidate, or submit.

In your instance I would call fist fighting a chance at intimidation or submission. Go for it. Besides, most of us are strongly against killing a fellow human even if we endanger ourselves by doing so ( and by us I mean people, not gun owners ;) ). You could always shoot him but could you live with yourself after?

If you are honorable and smart (and fast) you can run but that presents challenges. You need to be faster than the pursuer and you expose a vulnerable side of youself when you run.

This is not an unrealistic sceanario for a young man of "courting age" just so some of you old-timers know...
 
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A few years ago I would try to beat hell out of him and size would not have had nothing to do. Now that I'm a little older and wiser I want be laid a hand on if I can help it. Why take a chance, just shootem...besides it perfectly legal here in Ga and some panty waste judge will slap on on the wrist and let'm go anyway. Then next time he gets one of your kids. SHOOT!
 
There is a reason I hit the gym five days a week.
There is a reason I work my boxing, clinch, jits, and even a little bit of kicking too.

Firearms training is secondary to my strength and conditioning and unarmed skills for a reason. I'm much more likely to need to first two than the last.

This is not to say that I consider shooting skills less important. I just think they need to be integrated into your unarmed system.

If someone is already kicking your ass you are probably not going to successfully draw and use a firearm in your defense.

More realistic options than the poor ones offered by the OP may include:
1) Go to the clinch and do some damage of your own.
a. attempt to access a blade while in the clinch. (not a great idea unless you are highly skilled and have practiced this under pressure)
2) If your boxing skills are superior, go toe to toe. (downside is the possibility of getting KO'd)
3) Land a cheap shot and make distance. (a combination of luck and skill, if you have neither you are truly screwed)
a. use the distance for escape.
b. use the distance to allow for access of a weapon.

I would only use a take-down as a last resort. I don't want to grapple with a firearm. Someone WILL get shot and it could certainly be me.

Just my take on it YMMV.
 
Seems to me, if you're armed and someone starts a physical assault, you are already in a "gun fight", because the only thing in question at that point is: which one of you controls the gun? it could be the assailant in the blink of an eye, so you are justified in shooting the assailant with your gun before the assailant gets a chance to shoot you with your gun.

My understanding is that this logic will be upheld in NC, assuming that there is absolutely no possibility that you could be cast by the court as the "aggressor".

Les
 
Father Time has taken the fight out of this dog. Oh, i'm probably good for thirty seconds at most but with one bad knee, a bad wrist, and an ankle that folds up weekly, I'm not gonna win the fight or run worth a darn.

In Texas we say if the old man can't win the fight he'll just plain kill you. ;)


Mike
 
If someone was continuing to hit me, I like the haymaker. I know some pro out there would say that its foolish, but its worked for me before. Someone starts smaking me around I wind up and hit them with all the force I can muster right in there center of mass. Then they fall backwards on their arse, and sit there for a moment stunned. You really gott put all your wieght into hitting them as hard as possible with the goal of knocking them on their backside and it will work. UNLESS they are some kind of trained fighter, then Id guess Id be screwed. Im assuming anyway that some golden glove boxer isnt gonna just come outa knowhere and take pot shots at me.

As far as your carry peice is concerned it shouldnt have to come into play if you have it concealed properly, My experience is that ppl wont try and take something they dont knokw is there. One of the big downsides to open carry.

I would only go to option C and shoot to stop if, I was up against a pro, Someone that knows how to stop a haymaker, Hopefully its not to late for me at that point.
 
Wow... vivid imaginations, and such a difference in thought process...We are all different... in age, training, and physical ability... Which is exactly why we can't sit here and predict exactly what we'd do, or believe that there is a "one size fits all" solution here...For all of you "Chuck Norris" types, you know how you'd react, probably. For the rest of us who aren't Rambo, Superman, or some other super hero, or MMA star ....Awareness is key...for ALL of us. However, stuff happens. When it does, we still have a responsibility to do all we can to avoid using lethal force. We can't just take our firearm and "dispatch" someone because we think they "may" mean us harm...However, in the given situation by the OP, you don't know what's in the mind of the attacker, or how much bodily damage they are capable of, or intend to inflict upon you. Personally, I'm not going to just let them slap me around, beat me down, etc., until i see an opening for a "super duper power punch","silly slap", or anything else. Attempt to retreat...get/keep as much distance between you and them as possible. Distance may be all the advantage you get..If it's necessary, now draw your weapon. At this point, you have to be prepared to use it. Again, you don't know the intent of your assailant... Every jurisdiction can be different, true...but now you've made an honest intentional effort to avoid more conflict...As far as I'm concerned, if I show my weapon and he continues to advance with the same intent as before, I'm shooting...I'm not 22 anymore, and past physical injuries constantly remind me of that...While it's true that I have a responsibility to avoid deadly force, at this point I also have a responsibility to my family and myself. I pray that none of us ever have to face this scenario. As corny as it always sounds,"Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six." God Bless,
Tac
 
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Oh hell, why not.
1. Allow the assault to continue, try to run away.

Call me 'Ol chest thumper if you want, but this ain't happening. I've never been a bad*** and actually have been in few fist fights in my life. But if the guy is truly my physical equal he's a bigger fool than this bizarre scenario would suggest. Within 30 seconds he'd be wheezing and coughing, holding his back and trying to rub his shoulder.
"You can run, but you'll just die tired."

2. Draw your weapon, finger off trigger, but don't shoot.

At the first chance I get the gun coming out. This whole idea about not drawing unless you intend to shoot is ludicrous. For god's sake, we're not some kind of Samarai warrior who's sword has to draw blood before it can be sheathed. "Well officer, he quit beating on me when I pulled my gun and told him to "BACK OFF", but dadgummit, I already had the thing out so I had to shoot him."

3. Shoot him

That comes after #2. If he's still coming at me after he sees a gun pointed at his nose, I can only presume he is going for a weapon..... mine.
 
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