cosine
Member
Larry Ashcraft said:
I love that article! And no, guns won't be banned, just regulated out of our hands.
If guns were ever banned, what would you do?
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I love that article! And no, guns won't be banned, just regulated out of our hands.
Manedwolf
member
My state has no registration, so...
...what guns?
...what guns?
Manedwolf
member
Switzerland! EVERYONE has guns...very little crime.
Neutral, and will kick your a** if you mess with their stuff. That's how it should be.
From BBC:
Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept.
The country has a population of six million, but there are estimated to be at least two million publicly-owned firearms, including about 600,000 automatic rifles and 500,000 pistols.
This is in a very large part due to Switzerland's unique system of national defence, developed over the centuries.
Instead of a standing, full-time army, the country requires every man to undergo some form of military training for a few days or weeks a year throughout most of their lives.
Between the ages of 21 and 32 men serve as frontline troops. They are given an M-57 assault rifle and 24 rounds of ammunition which they are required to keep at home.
Once discharged, men serve in the Swiss equivalent of the US National Guard, but still have to train occasionally and are given bolt rifles. Women do not have to own firearms, but are encouraged to.
Few restrictions
In addition to the government-provided arms, there are few restrictions on buying weapons. Some cantons restrict the carrying of firearms - others do not.
The government even sells off surplus weaponry to the general public when new equipment is introduced.
Guns and shooting are popular national pastimes. More than 200,000 Swiss attend national annual marksmanship competitions.
But despite the wide ownership and availability of guns, violent crime is extremely rare. There are only minimal controls at public buildings and politicians rarely have police protection.
azredhawk44
Member
No one can regulate hairspray, alcohol, 1/2 inch pipe, lighters and raw lead out of existence.
I don't know what kind of muzzle velocity I could get with a pig iron smoothbore pipe (or accuracy), but 1/2 dozen guys with those could easily sack a brownshirt patrol and steal their MP5's and sidearms.
We would begin with crude, homemade muzzleloading weapons but would be on par with our adversaries after a few intelligently placed strikes.
Add that to all the private-party transaction weapons out there that are almost completely untraceable without draconian labor put into each gun's trace, and you have a very formidable deterrent to outright confiscation. Also, in most places, black powder weapons have no NICS check and no registration. Over the counter purchase.
I don't know what kind of muzzle velocity I could get with a pig iron smoothbore pipe (or accuracy), but 1/2 dozen guys with those could easily sack a brownshirt patrol and steal their MP5's and sidearms.
We would begin with crude, homemade muzzleloading weapons but would be on par with our adversaries after a few intelligently placed strikes.
Add that to all the private-party transaction weapons out there that are almost completely untraceable without draconian labor put into each gun's trace, and you have a very formidable deterrent to outright confiscation. Also, in most places, black powder weapons have no NICS check and no registration. Over the counter purchase.
Guns? What guns? I think I sold them all, quite some time back. Can't recall the fellow's name or what he looked like....
Then again, spent brass would make a nice burial mound. 'Scroom; if my rights are going to be diminished every time some loonie or criminal does what loonies and criminals do, there may come a time to diminish the diminishers right back!* We're none of us gettin' out of our time here alive anyway.
--Herself
________________________
* With apologies to the late Theodore Sturgeon's short story, "And Now the News..."
Then again, spent brass would make a nice burial mound. 'Scroom; if my rights are going to be diminished every time some loonie or criminal does what loonies and criminals do, there may come a time to diminish the diminishers right back!* We're none of us gettin' out of our time here alive anyway.
--Herself
________________________
* With apologies to the late Theodore Sturgeon's short story, "And Now the News..."
[Simplified form]
Well commissar, I will comply with the wishes of the proletariat in every fashion and manner required of a good worker.
Yes, I know that I have owned guns in the past, but I am now completely in accord with the wisdom handed down by the central committee.
Too bad that I no longer have any guns to turn in. Why yes, of course you can search my home -- I have nothing to hide!
I would really like to continue our discussion commissar. Would it be possible for you and I to meet to explore the ramifications of the new order?
Yes, we can? How wonderful. Let me write down your address. Yes, I know exactly where you live.
See you SOON, commissar.
Turkey Creek
Member
The oath I gve in part says "to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of The United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic"- pretty much answers the question
thumper723
Member
+1
Same Oath, Same Idea.
Same Oath, Same Idea.
The-Fly
Member
if guns were banned, i'd adopt the 3S method for anyone asking about my firearms. Shoot, Shovel, Shutup.
azredhawk44
Member
Turkey Creek, Thumper:
I actually had a post deleted over at a sister site (TFL) for saying something very similar in a similar thread...the question was when they came, would I hand them over. I stated that I had an M1A with FMJ ready to go thru body armor...
Lot of cops over there and probably here too. Now, given that Hillary isn't gonna come to your door herself, but she is going to send Army, NG or police to do the job instead. Still ready to face those "enemies"? These are your range buddies, neighbors and guys you may have served with. They are following her orders, while you are not.
Where do you stand?
I actually had a post deleted over at a sister site (TFL) for saying something very similar in a similar thread...the question was when they came, would I hand them over. I stated that I had an M1A with FMJ ready to go thru body armor...
Lot of cops over there and probably here too. Now, given that Hillary isn't gonna come to your door herself, but she is going to send Army, NG or police to do the job instead. Still ready to face those "enemies"? These are your range buddies, neighbors and guys you may have served with. They are following her orders, while you are not.
Where do you stand?
k_semler
member
Switzerland.
k_semler
member
Regarding the post question, I don't think it's wise to discuss such actions that one may or may not take on the Internet, where it probably is monitered by authorities.
{somehow, I think this was a bating question planted by a fed.)
{somehow, I think this was a bating question planted by a fed.)
TallPine
Member
Fine ... let them consider what they are up against
Sgt.Slappy
member
Federal mandates/laws/bans do not necessarily translate into state law. A "cold turkey" ban, while very, very unlikely... is still possible. Guaranteed civil war by that route. The "hard war".
More likely it will be through a slow process of increasing regulation of manufacturing standards, import laws or bans on certain parts, regulations on ammunition and ammunition components, things called "common sense gun law" ideas (like FOID cards), regulation and restriction of ranges and practice facilities, increased regulation of hunting, etc. In other words, make firearms ownership and use as inconvenient and expensive as possible. In addition, engage in the misuse of statistics (never mentioning the beneficial use of firearms by normal Americans, every day) and outright lying (the Glock is a plastic gun undetectable by airport security metal detectors) to the young and impressionable or old and gullible, to portray firearms ownership as a realm inhabited by only the criminal, the paranoid, and the Police/Gov't who "protect" them. Continually diminish firearms ownership as a right enumerated very specifically in the Bill of Rights as archaic, unwise, and/or dangerous. Diminish firearms ownership as an integral part of American culture. The "soft war".
Wait a minute... this sounds familiar...
thumper723
Member
Azredhawk,
This has been a subject of debate in my locale.
As it stands now, about 95% of the pilots would view that as an unconstitutional order (taking part in confiscating weapons). As in, not following it, and most likley helping the right side.
The no-joke trainign scenario that was discussed was there is a protest/demonstration. ATF/OGA on one side, citizens on the other. The ATF panics, starts shooting (a'la Kent State). They call for fire support.
What do you do?
About 50% said do nothing, I'm not firing on civillians. One guy said he would order the gunner to open fire. The rest of us wanted to choke him.
They then added "The civillians are armed and shooting at the ATF"
3/5 would call for "Open Fire" on the ATF.
Boss' take on it was "Do what is right, your duty is to the Constitution before any brass, politicians or polical appointees."
I will not carry out an unconsitiutional order. If I am court martialed for such, so be it. I am holding true to my Oath, and my Country.
This has been a subject of debate in my locale.
As it stands now, about 95% of the pilots would view that as an unconstitutional order (taking part in confiscating weapons). As in, not following it, and most likley helping the right side.
The no-joke trainign scenario that was discussed was there is a protest/demonstration. ATF/OGA on one side, citizens on the other. The ATF panics, starts shooting (a'la Kent State). They call for fire support.
What do you do?
About 50% said do nothing, I'm not firing on civillians. One guy said he would order the gunner to open fire. The rest of us wanted to choke him.
They then added "The civillians are armed and shooting at the ATF"
3/5 would call for "Open Fire" on the ATF.
Boss' take on it was "Do what is right, your duty is to the Constitution before any brass, politicians or polical appointees."
I will not carry out an unconsitiutional order. If I am court martialed for such, so be it. I am holding true to my Oath, and my Country.
Lobotomy Boy
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Someone may well be watching this indeed. I think we would be doing that person a favor by giving him or her an idea of what kind of fiery feces-storm would be unleashed by such an action. I'd take my family and head for the hills to keep them safe from the flying lead.
Sam
Member
At that point I would carry out my responsibilities under the second amendment as opposed to enjoying the right.
Sam
Sam
beerslurpy
member
I would own illegal guns, along with 100 million other american households.
That is a pretty long list of wealthy and well armed people to piss off at one time. The economy would collapse if even 10 percent of them decided to stay home from work and fight (whether in the courts or from the rooftops) instead. Do you imagine that the local constabulary will disarm their own friends, family and neighbors? Maybe in the big city, but not around here. So you would have a lot of local and perhaps state governments refusing the enforce the federal laws, something that hasnt been seen since the 1860s. Which raises the question of how our astute politicians in washington could make such an enormous misstep. If you think of what a slam dunk the AWB was considered and what a political nightmare it turned into for the Dems and you can begin to see the tip of what a complete ban would do.
So basically I call BS on this ever happening in the manner you describe. More likely they will (if it ever happens) attempt to nibble away at the gun culture in this country until it is essentially gone, at which point there will be practically no guns to confiscate anyway. But the gun culture is getting stronger in this country, to the point that I predict we are more likely to see legal machine guns in my lifetime than we are to see a national gun ban.
That is a pretty long list of wealthy and well armed people to piss off at one time. The economy would collapse if even 10 percent of them decided to stay home from work and fight (whether in the courts or from the rooftops) instead. Do you imagine that the local constabulary will disarm their own friends, family and neighbors? Maybe in the big city, but not around here. So you would have a lot of local and perhaps state governments refusing the enforce the federal laws, something that hasnt been seen since the 1860s. Which raises the question of how our astute politicians in washington could make such an enormous misstep. If you think of what a slam dunk the AWB was considered and what a political nightmare it turned into for the Dems and you can begin to see the tip of what a complete ban would do.
So basically I call BS on this ever happening in the manner you describe. More likely they will (if it ever happens) attempt to nibble away at the gun culture in this country until it is essentially gone, at which point there will be practically no guns to confiscate anyway. But the gun culture is getting stronger in this country, to the point that I predict we are more likely to see legal machine guns in my lifetime than we are to see a national gun ban.
xd9fan
Member
Looks like I would be using more ammo......
k_semler
member
Loose lips sink ships. The only hint I will give is read Unintended Consequences and Enemies: Foreign and Domestic.
GruntII
member
I am not the original poster you posed this question to but I am qualified to answer this as I am a cop. Unless I am caught totally flat footed in a rare moment of unpreparedness I will engage the threat.If it's a familiar face too bad so sad for them. I was only doing my job, I was following orders ,are nothing more than cop outs. They aren't my friend or range buddy if they are trampling the people's rights.
It is heartening to know so many people will stand up for what they believe, but only a fool would think folks will all be standing up for the same side.
Yes, if it comes to it, being "range buddies" won't help any. Please go read up on the War Between the States if you still have questions.
Now, for the "psst -- keep it quiet" people who have posted here and the "gummit spies," if any, I have this to say: YOU CAN BE ALL COVERT IF YOU WANT BUT I WILL GO DOWN FIGHTING. Hello, FBI, NSA and Hiematsicherdienst or whatever they call it, DHS: your job ain't disarming peaceable citizens, no matter what any dimwit law claims and if you try, well. Could be real loud. I won't be thinkin' about afterwards, so maybe you should.
That quiet enough for you sissies? Some "menfolk" you are, hidin' under the bed, hopin' the bother will all be over before you have to decide if you will stand up or just faint.
--Herself
Yes, if it comes to it, being "range buddies" won't help any. Please go read up on the War Between the States if you still have questions.
Now, for the "psst -- keep it quiet" people who have posted here and the "gummit spies," if any, I have this to say: YOU CAN BE ALL COVERT IF YOU WANT BUT I WILL GO DOWN FIGHTING. Hello, FBI, NSA and Hiematsicherdienst or whatever they call it, DHS: your job ain't disarming peaceable citizens, no matter what any dimwit law claims and if you try, well. Could be real loud. I won't be thinkin' about afterwards, so maybe you should.
That quiet enough for you sissies? Some "menfolk" you are, hidin' under the bed, hopin' the bother will all be over before you have to decide if you will stand up or just faint.
--Herself
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Lobotomy Boy
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My wife and I had coffee with an old professor and his new wife (first one passed away since we had last visited 10 years back). His new wife works for a non-profit and is what we in Minnesota call a "pink-sweatered bliss ninny." I tried my best to keep it civil, but these folks make politics their life. They are nice, well-meaning people, but then Hitler was well-meaning, if not exactly nice. The only politics I have been involved with was repassing the Minnesota Personal Protection Act last year. I wasn't about to lie about that fact.
It got a bit heated. I believe I presented an argument that was about 1000 times more rational than my professor's wife, who claimed to not want to take away all our guns, but when I had refuted every argument (primarily that someone willing to break the ultimate taboo and take a human life would not be deterred by a regulation involving how the gun used was acquired), she said, "If there were no guns, there would be no gun crime.)
That's the nut of the anti's argument--eliminate all guns to eliminate all gun crime. Perhaps if it were possible to eliminate all guns, including those used by the world's police forces and militaries, this could theoretically be possible. But that is such a utopian (distopian, in my view) ideal that it would be more practical to teach every man, woman, and child in the United States to levitate. Even if this were successful, it would be punishing millions of law-abiding gun owners for the actions of a few criminals.
So don't ever be lulled into complacency by the inactivity of the bliss ninnies. They haven't gone away, and they haven't gotten any more logical.
It got a bit heated. I believe I presented an argument that was about 1000 times more rational than my professor's wife, who claimed to not want to take away all our guns, but when I had refuted every argument (primarily that someone willing to break the ultimate taboo and take a human life would not be deterred by a regulation involving how the gun used was acquired), she said, "If there were no guns, there would be no gun crime.)
That's the nut of the anti's argument--eliminate all guns to eliminate all gun crime. Perhaps if it were possible to eliminate all guns, including those used by the world's police forces and militaries, this could theoretically be possible. But that is such a utopian (distopian, in my view) ideal that it would be more practical to teach every man, woman, and child in the United States to levitate. Even if this were successful, it would be punishing millions of law-abiding gun owners for the actions of a few criminals.
So don't ever be lulled into complacency by the inactivity of the bliss ninnies. They haven't gone away, and they haven't gotten any more logical.
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