RockyMtnTactical
Member
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2006
- Messages
- 3,539
Heard that one before. Typically from the same people who claim that the police have guns and they are the only ones who should use them....
If you feel like you need to carry a gun in order to go there...don't go there.
- Thread starter The Real Hawkeye
- Start date
- Status
Let's see......
There's biker bar in my town where it's well known they wouldn't cotton to some cop-looking type like me. My just walking into that place and ordering a beer would be provocative.
But it's a free country, no? Why shouldn't I go in there and exercise my rights?
Of course, I know it wouldn't be too smart - and definitely not safe.
So I better be sure to go packing, just in case. A fella can't be too careful, you know?
There's biker bar in my town where it's well known they wouldn't cotton to some cop-looking type like me. My just walking into that place and ordering a beer would be provocative.
But it's a free country, no? Why shouldn't I go in there and exercise my rights?
Of course, I know it wouldn't be too smart - and definitely not safe.
So I better be sure to go packing, just in case. A fella can't be too careful, you know?
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Biker Bars
meef wrote:
>There's biker bar in my town where it's well known they wouldn't cotton to some cop-looking type like me. My just walking into that place and ordering a beer would be provocative.
But it's a free country, no? Why shouldn't I go in there and exercise my rights?
Of course, I know it wouldn't be too smart - and definitely not safe.
So I better be sure to go packing, just in case. A fella can't be too careful, you know?
***********
...And if you become involved in an altercation which requires shooting for blood...in a place where your very appearance would be provocative...and you've been drinking...this would help your case...how?
<---Jury of your peers
meef wrote:
>There's biker bar in my town where it's well known they wouldn't cotton to some cop-looking type like me. My just walking into that place and ordering a beer would be provocative.
But it's a free country, no? Why shouldn't I go in there and exercise my rights?
Of course, I know it wouldn't be too smart - and definitely not safe.
So I better be sure to go packing, just in case. A fella can't be too careful, you know?
***********
...And if you become involved in an altercation which requires shooting for blood...in a place where your very appearance would be provocative...and you've been drinking...this would help your case...how?
<---Jury of your peerstinygnat219
Member
TR Hawkeye,
I try to keep it simple. I don't go where firearms aren't allowed to be carried. Or, I limit the times I do go to those places. I carry at home, to the grocery store, everywhere except to work since I work in DC.
TJ
I try to keep it simple. I don't go where firearms aren't allowed to be carried. Or, I limit the times I do go to those places. I carry at home, to the grocery store, everywhere except to work since I work in DC.
TJ
1911Tuner:
My posting was meant as pure sarcasm.
There seems to be the "occasional" perception that "By golly, I should be able to go anywhere I want, it's a free country".
Well, yes.... in theory.
But I guarantee that while I may have the right to say, take a stroll through Watts, I sure ain't gonna. To me it's a matter of common sense, not posturing about how things should be. Things are how they are and a prudent person accepts certain facts rather than trying to make a statement by thinking or saying "I can go where I want because I can carry a gun."
I'm in your camp on this one.
...And if you become involved in an altercation which requires shooting for blood...in a place where your very appearance would be provocative...and you've been drinking...this would help your case...how?
My posting was meant as pure sarcasm.
There seems to be the "occasional" perception that "By golly, I should be able to go anywhere I want, it's a free country".
Well, yes.... in theory.
But I guarantee that while I may have the right to say, take a stroll through Watts, I sure ain't gonna. To me it's a matter of common sense, not posturing about how things should be. Things are how they are and a prudent person accepts certain facts rather than trying to make a statement by thinking or saying "I can go where I want because I can carry a gun."
I'm in your camp on this one.
The Real Hawkeye
member
Meef, I hope nothing I've said makes you think I'm one of the guys who would say, "I can go where I want because I can carry a gun." In fact, I haven't heard quite that sentiment expressed yet in this thread. I think it's a very rare sentiment here at The High Road.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Sarcasm
meef wrote:
>My posting was meant as pure sarcasm<
**********
I know. I just used it as an example of how easy it is for poor judgement to land a body in a wide, deep dookey pile. besides which, the guys in a biker bar will probably "make" you in about 30 seconds...disarm you in 10...and spend the rest of the mad minute stuffin' the gun where the sun don't shine. Most of'em are as quick to spot a concealed weapon as a veteran street cop.
Rough they be. Stupid they ain't.
meef wrote:
>My posting was meant as pure sarcasm<
**********
I know.
I just used it as an example of how easy it is for poor judgement to land a body in a wide, deep dookey pile. besides which, the guys in a biker bar will probably "make" you in about 30 seconds...disarm you in 10...and spend the rest of the mad minute stuffin' the gun where the sun don't shine. Most of'em are as quick to spot a concealed weapon as a veteran street cop.Rough they be. Stupid they ain't.
pcosmar
member
I did not mean the "no fear" comments as tempting fate. I don't like large cities for many reasons. I have traveled through many places where I was told I could not go. I suppose I did becuse events took me there.
I have found that the "fear" keeps me aware, I just don't let it rule me.
BTY, I like Biker bars, nice folks. Usually everyone is as ugly as me.
I have found that the "fear" keeps me aware, I just don't let it rule me.
BTY, I like Biker bars, nice folks. Usually everyone is as ugly as me.
Stevie-Ray
Member
Same here. To me it's all about feeling better when I have to go to those places. Of course, in my area, metro Detroit, that's practically everywhere.
And before the If you don't feel safe there, you should move comments start, I'm about a year away from retirement. Plus, I don't believe in giving my neighborhood away.
1911tuner,
I will agree whole heartedly that some idiot getting on here and spewing some trash like "I would have blown his brains out for that" or whatever harms the gun community in the eyes of the antis. Why not silently ban these idiots because all of this useless banter about it only brings more attention to it?
My point is that you as the moderators need to sit down and figure out what the main purpose of this forum is. Is it for gun owners to share their opinions and converse about anything related to guns or is it to be a PR machine to convert the antis to our side? If it is the latter, we are all wasting our time here because we aren't going to convert the Rosie O's of our society and I highly doubt that fence sitters are perusing THR to make their final determination on their gun stance. I'm here because I love guns and RKBA, not be part of some social experiment to sway others. When you are afraid to come out 100% for what you believe for fear of what the antis might think of us, than they have already won.
Many of you think it is controversial for a gun owner to state on here that they think that any American citizen should be able to go by an M2 Browning machine gun without any paper work or registration. Why is that controversial? That is simply what the constitution states. I've heard the argument that "well, we didn't have machine guns when it was written." True and the government didn't have them either. The second does not say that we can't have the same level of armament as our government. You guys would get your panties in a wad if anyone on here mentioned how to convert a semi auto rifle to a full auto. Why not? It's in keeping with the spirit of the Constitution!
I will agree whole heartedly that some idiot getting on here and spewing some trash like "I would have blown his brains out for that" or whatever harms the gun community in the eyes of the antis. Why not silently ban these idiots because all of this useless banter about it only brings more attention to it?
My point is that you as the moderators need to sit down and figure out what the main purpose of this forum is. Is it for gun owners to share their opinions and converse about anything related to guns or is it to be a PR machine to convert the antis to our side? If it is the latter, we are all wasting our time here because we aren't going to convert the Rosie O's of our society and I highly doubt that fence sitters are perusing THR to make their final determination on their gun stance. I'm here because I love guns and RKBA, not be part of some social experiment to sway others. When you are afraid to come out 100% for what you believe for fear of what the antis might think of us, than they have already won.
Many of you think it is controversial for a gun owner to state on here that they think that any American citizen should be able to go by an M2 Browning machine gun without any paper work or registration. Why is that controversial? That is simply what the constitution states. I've heard the argument that "well, we didn't have machine guns when it was written." True and the government didn't have them either. The second does not say that we can't have the same level of armament as our government. You guys would get your panties in a wad if anyone on here mentioned how to convert a semi auto rifle to a full auto. Why not? It's in keeping with the spirit of the Constitution!
Hawkeye, please understand I'm not intending to be confrontational here and am willing to be straightened out on a bit of confusion I've got going.
You said:
That category of places you're willing to go only if you can carry a gun - are they places you need to go?
If not - and you feel they could potentally involve having to defend yourself with a gun, or you wouldn't go there - why would you go there at all?
Just curious.
You said:
And also:
...
That category of places you're willing to go only if you can carry a gun - are they places you need to go?
If not - and you feel they could potentally involve having to defend yourself with a gun, or you wouldn't go there - why would you go there at all?
Just curious.
djpullen:
That statement nearly made me fall out of my chair and hit the ground rolling!
Sorry dj - that was too rich....
Trust me, the Moderators do know what the main purpose of this forum is. You've been here how long?
Hoo Ha!
That statement nearly made me fall out of my chair and hit the ground rolling!
Sorry dj - that was too rich....
Trust me, the Moderators do know what the main purpose of this forum is. You've been here how long?
Last edited:
My feelings on this are summed up by the quote "If I thought I was going to need a gun, I would stay home." The person who said that went on to say something like I carry it for the times when I don't think I will need it but do.
The Real Hawkeye
member
Meef, you can answer your own question by simply reading what you've quoted of me in its original context. I provided an example of what I was talking about. I believe I was quite clear. Who do you think you are fooling? All are free to read that quote in its original context. Kind of hard to twist someone's meaning when what they said is just a few posts back.
Well, GW and many republicans got canned in November because they forgot about the ones (many conservatives like myself) who put them there and worried more about pleasing those who would cut their throats. I'm asking. Is the purpose of this site to serve gun owners or is it a pr machine to convert antis? How long will gun owners hang out on this site when we are constantly being told "heh, you can't say this or that on here because you might offend an anti"?
thexrayboy
Member
I for one never worry about what antis think feel or want. Since they have absolutely no concern over what I think feel or want I see no reason to return the favor. Sometimes as the saying goes "the best defense if a good offense and I intend to start offending". So if an anti lurking on this site is offended......BFD. In fact I enjoy the idea of some petal pushing pansy anti
self reliance gun banner reading some of our threads and grasping at their chest in mock pain feigning a swoon.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
djpullen,
Spend some more time here before chastizing the community. There are plenty of places you can go if this isn't your cup of tea.
We're a bunch of folks who have similar interests that congregate here because the conversation is cordial, and we like to keep it that way. Your comments are off topic for this thread. If you wanna discuss legal and political matters; Take it to the Legal and Political section.
We don't permit the discussion of how to conduct illegal acts. Don't expect the topic how to convert semi-autos into full will survive here, and if you push it, you may not, either.
bogie
Member
A common "thought" among non-gun people is "If I have it, I will use it." They seem to think that firearms are multipurpose tools...
I generally do not have to drive through bad neighborhoods. So I don't go there. If I have to, and sometimes one does not have a choice (stupid friend calling at 3:00 ayem because his car has croaked and a taxi won't go there... etc., etc...), I'm armed. Period. Hey, I was a boy scout. Heck - since they passed the vehicle carry in Missouri, if I have to go into the city at night, Mr. Twelve is right between the seats in the van - I don't drive the little car for those runs...
I generally do not have to drive through bad neighborhoods. So I don't go there. If I have to, and sometimes one does not have a choice (stupid friend calling at 3:00 ayem because his car has croaked and a taxi won't go there... etc., etc...), I'm armed. Period. Hey, I was a boy scout. Heck - since they passed the vehicle carry in Missouri, if I have to go into the city at night, Mr. Twelve is right between the seats in the van - I don't drive the little car for those runs...
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
This is about using good judgement and discretion, not a license to do things we know go against our better judgement, but instead choose to because we are armed with a gun.
If you feel you can't take that turn without being buckled up, slow down.
If you feel you can't handle combustibles without a fire extinguisher, put out the lit cigar.
etc, etc . . . .
Ken,
I agree that "extreme" postings on here don't help us but hardly a thread goes by on here that someone doesn't keep saying, "oh we have to watch what we say". How much bandwidth is wasted by those posts alone. If "extreme" posts aren't allowed, then ban the posters that are doing it. Otherwise this constant "oh we have to watch what we say" is only drawing more attention to it. I would just think that it would make more sense to cater to those who love guns than those who don't.
Let me ask this moderators. Would our founding fathers be allowed to post here with their "extremist" views?
I agree that "extreme" postings on here don't help us but hardly a thread goes by on here that someone doesn't keep saying, "oh we have to watch what we say". How much bandwidth is wasted by those posts alone. If "extreme" posts aren't allowed, then ban the posters that are doing it. Otherwise this constant "oh we have to watch what we say" is only drawing more attention to it. I would just think that it would make more sense to cater to those who love guns than those who don't.
Let me ask this moderators. Would our founding fathers be allowed to post here with their "extremist" views?
The Real Hawkeye
member
Absolutely not. The Founders wouldn't last a minute. They'd be screaming at all of us, "Why have you not already taken up arms? What's the matter with you people? Is there no longer a love of liberty? How can you live in fear of your own government after all we did to free you from tyranny?"
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Antis
xrayboy spake:
>I for one never worry about what antis think feel or want. Since they have absolutely no concern over what I think feel or want I see no reason to return the favor.<
***************
Mod hat off. Rant mode on.
Nor do we. We are a little concerned, however, that the "Shoot'em down like a dog" responses that we often get is providing WRITTEN DOCUMENTATION
that gun folks are crazy and have no business running around with guns. While I don't give a whit how an individual citizen feels about my guns and yours...I'm deeply concerned with how the people who make the laws in this country feel about it. They can take it all away with a stroke of the pen.
AND...(and please pay careful attention) that, if one of the people who provide this written documentation should become involved in a defensive shooting, it can be used in a court of law to obtain a murder conviction of a person who was actually 100% justified in using deadly force. It's akin to signing a written confession. Slam-dunk for the prosecutor.
I don't expect that this will make the connection with some people...but hopefully it will with the majority.
Finally, the purpose of this forum is to provide a place to offer information and opinions..true...but our mission statement is basically twofold.
One...To promote the safe, responsible handling of guns and the shooting disciplines, whichever your particular discipline happens to be.
Two...to do what we can to insure that 2A/RKBA remains in full force for us and for future generations. No one can deny that it's been under attack for some time now, and it only promises to get worse in the near future.
When a small faction of our membership indulges in the "Kill'em all, let God sort'em out" doctrine, THEY ARE HURTING OUR CAUSE by providing written proof that we are all crazy because of a few Walter Mittys...and this makes them feel fully justified in redoubling their efforts to repeal the Second Amendment. Guilt by association has caused many decent people some nightmarish legal problems.
This is why threads often get locked...members warned and/or banned...and
why we sometimes jump the gun whenever we see a thread headed in that direction. Nothing personal, but 2A/RKBA takes priority over an individual's
insistence on bragging about his willingness to kill somebody because they stole a stereo system out of his car.
There is no one here who is more pro-2A than I am. There is no one here who believes more strongly in your right to maintain a firearm for the purposes of self-defense. No one. But when I hear somebody spouting off about how they carry a gun, and fear no man because they'll "bygod shoot him down" if he gives them a reason ...I immediately feel that this person is not only likely headed for trouble...he is hurting everybody who is involved in the RKBA movement with that same teenage, immature, fantasy-based drivel that he espouses. In real world encounters, people who talk this crap are generally looked upon unfavorably by mature, well-adjusted folk. Online, you just can't see the looks of disdain that you draw with this line of reasoning...but they're there. Trust me.
Thank you all for your support in this matter.
xrayboy spake:
>I for one never worry about what antis think feel or want. Since they have absolutely no concern over what I think feel or want I see no reason to return the favor.<
***************
Mod hat off. Rant mode on.
Nor do we. We are a little concerned, however, that the "Shoot'em down like a dog" responses that we often get is providing WRITTEN DOCUMENTATION
that gun folks are crazy and have no business running around with guns. While I don't give a whit how an individual citizen feels about my guns and yours...I'm deeply concerned with how the people who make the laws in this country feel about it. They can take it all away with a stroke of the pen.
AND...(and please pay careful attention) that, if one of the people who provide this written documentation should become involved in a defensive shooting, it can be used in a court of law to obtain a murder conviction of a person who was actually 100% justified in using deadly force. It's akin to signing a written confession. Slam-dunk for the prosecutor.
I don't expect that this will make the connection with some people...but hopefully it will with the majority.
Finally, the purpose of this forum is to provide a place to offer information and opinions..true...but our mission statement is basically twofold.
One...To promote the safe, responsible handling of guns and the shooting disciplines, whichever your particular discipline happens to be.
Two...to do what we can to insure that 2A/RKBA remains in full force for us and for future generations. No one can deny that it's been under attack for some time now, and it only promises to get worse in the near future.
When a small faction of our membership indulges in the "Kill'em all, let God sort'em out" doctrine, THEY ARE HURTING OUR CAUSE by providing written proof that we are all crazy because of a few Walter Mittys...and this makes them feel fully justified in redoubling their efforts to repeal the Second Amendment. Guilt by association has caused many decent people some nightmarish legal problems.
This is why threads often get locked...members warned and/or banned...and
why we sometimes jump the gun whenever we see a thread headed in that direction. Nothing personal, but 2A/RKBA takes priority over an individual's
insistence on bragging about his willingness to kill somebody because they stole a stereo system out of his car.
There is no one here who is more pro-2A than I am. There is no one here who believes more strongly in your right to maintain a firearm for the purposes of self-defense. No one. But when I hear somebody spouting off about how they carry a gun, and fear no man because they'll "bygod shoot him down" if he gives them a reason ...I immediately feel that this person is not only likely headed for trouble...he is hurting everybody who is involved in the RKBA movement with that same teenage, immature, fantasy-based drivel that he espouses. In real world encounters, people who talk this crap are generally looked upon unfavorably by mature, well-adjusted folk. Online, you just can't see the looks of disdain that you draw with this line of reasoning...but they're there. Trust me.
Thank you all for your support in this matter.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Founding Fathers
Hawkeye...We're in agteement on that one. The great men who gave us this nation by committing their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor would be sickened by what we've allowed it to become. That's why 2A must be preserved. It's our last hope.
Hawkeye...We're in agteement on that one. The great men who gave us this nation by committing their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor would be sickened by what we've allowed it to become. That's why 2A must be preserved. It's our last hope.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
djpullen,
If you don't think we're "hardcore" enough for your rants, there are other places more accommodating.
You are reminded that we strive to make this a cordial place for us to visit and exchange views. Its why I came here, for those reasons remains the only on-line gun forum I frequent.
Recall that the founders agonized over the decision to declare independence. This is not the thread for this discussion. If you wish to discuss the political environment at the time of the founding of our nation, start a new thread in Legal and Political. It would be a welcome breathe of fresh air to have a good, educational debate occur there.
If you wish to take issue with how this place is moderated, take it up with a moderator via Private Message.
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