IL Dog and Pony Show Continues
- Thread starter Trent
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Twmaster
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Gosh. This is worse than watching a soap opera.
On the next riveting episode of as the stomach turns will the Governor sign the bill or veto....
On the next riveting episode of as the stomach turns will the Governor sign the bill or veto....
Nickel Plated
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So if it gets vetoed, then it just goes right back to constitutional carry in IL?
Hurryin' Hoosier
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Quinn will probably be sharing a cell with Blago before long, anyway. 
Probably, at least for a short period of time.
Quinn can do three things;
1. sign the piece of crap bill we have
2. veto the piece of crap bill we have.
3. amendatory veto the piece of crap bill we have, and make it a bigger piece of crap.
Now, if #1 happens, hurray... 180 days later we can get CCW permits that allow us to carry.. well, virtually nowhere.
If #2 happens, the house and senate will both have to override with a supermajority.
If #3 happens, one of three things can occur:
A) both chamber override with supermajority, bill passes in to law
B) both chambers concur with his amendments, Quinn's version of the bill passes in to law (this only requires a SIMPLE majority).
C) both chambers fail to do anything. bill DIES.
Now..
If #2 happens and the house and senate don't get a supermajority to override the veto, OR #3 option C happens, OR Quinn doesn't act by July 8th, we get constitutional carry.
Which sucks, on it's own.
Because we're a home rule state. Cities and (one) county (cook) can pass their own laws, so long as the laws they pass are stricter than the state law. These laws can only be petty offenses or misdemeanors, which can carry up to 365 days of imprisonment and $2500 maximum fines. (Or was it $1000? I forget)
The home rule violations can stack. E.g. Cook county could pass 5 ordinances all of which are class A misdemeanors, and convict you for 5 years in cook county jail, (5x1 year consecutively), if you:
A) Had a firearm without a CHP (chicago handgun permit)
B) Carried a handgun without a CHP
C) Had more than 10 rounds in the magazine of the firearm (or whatever arbitrary crap they pass)
D) Don't maintain 1 million dollars liability insurance
E) Were within 2 miles of a restricted gun free zone (or whatever)
+++) Wore pink while carrying a gun. (Ergo; insert more stupid misdemeanors here)
So, constitutional carry sucks, because your average Illinois resident isn't going to memorize 1500 different home rule ordinances relating to firearms in 300 different jurisdictions. No, they are going to say "ooh I got constitutional carry" and get busted. Then go to Cook County (or whatever county) jail for a year.. or three.. or five.. and face $2500, or $15,000 worth of fines.
Which would, although not a felony conviction, be a major life changing event. I mean, will your boss be cool with you missing a few years work while you serve time? Your creditors? Your wife? No. No... and no.
ljnowell
Member
Nickel Plated said:
No, there can NEVER be constitutional carry in IL without a law allowing for preemption because we are a home rule state. If the gov vetoes and the legislature does not override it then every home rule municipality in the state can make their own rules on concealed carry. You could literally be legal on one side of the road and illegal on the other. Thats not a solution.
unicorn
Member
It's all part of the plan
It's all part of the plan to keep Illinois the most fubar state in the union. Between this and the pension reform (even if they pass anything that's on the table, it will not fix the problem) this state is as fouled up as a football bat. Will Rogers once said that if congress tells a joke, it becomes law, and when they pass a law it becomes a joke. (paraphrased) Illinois is proof of the truth in that statement.
It's all part of the plan to keep Illinois the most fubar state in the union. Between this and the pension reform (even if they pass anything that's on the table, it will not fix the problem) this state is as fouled up as a football bat. Will Rogers once said that if congress tells a joke, it becomes law, and when they pass a law it becomes a joke. (paraphrased) Illinois is proof of the truth in that statement.
After Heller the right of a person to own firearms became a constitutionally protected civil right. After MacDonald the right was extended to outside a person's residence.
So, although you have this home-rule situation, I suspect the Federal Courts would not go along with the idea that a (now) established civil right can be denied in some places, and not others.
What if some counties/cities tried to use home-rule powers to pass a statute that prevented certain ethnic groups from voting??
So, although you have this home-rule situation, I suspect the Federal Courts would not go along with the idea that a (now) established civil right can be denied in some places, and not others.
What if some counties/cities tried to use home-rule powers to pass a statute that prevented certain ethnic groups from voting??
arizona_cards_11
Member
I'll take the Constitutional carry now and save dealing with the township/locality headaches for later. Sorry if you live in Crook county.
ljnowell
Member
The courts may, or may not, but either way it would be some time in the future, probably years before we would find out.
It would be more than Cook County and it would be fast. You would be amazed at how fast laws can be made and passed at the local level.
If I recall correctly there is a special session scheduled for the legislature on July 8. Handy since July 9 is the last day of the court's stay.
If Quinn vetoes the bill they'll be right there to override before "Constitutional" carry can take effect. Most have come to call it court carry due to the home rule situation.
If Quinn vetoes the bill they'll be right there to override before "Constitutional" carry can take effect. Most have come to call it court carry due to the home rule situation.
There are not that many Home Rule communities in Illinois. Most are in Cook County. And as far as I am concerned they (Cook County) can wallow in their own feces. I hope Quinn does Veto the bill, that will put him in contempt of a Federal Court Order. Happy jail day Mr. governor, Lisa will have to prosecute you and defend you, now which do you think she would rather do? (ha,ha)
Everyone is right, this State is becoming a JOKE.
Jim
Everyone is right, this State is becoming a JOKE.
Jim
There are right around 220 home rule units in IL. So a potential for a lot of different laws scattered around, although I suspect most of the ones with real problems would be the 'burbs.
The court didn't order that a law be passed, they just said that some sections of current UUW law were unconstitutional. Then they stayed the striking of those portions as a courtesy to the legislature. If the ILGA and Gov did absolutely nothing, they wouldn't be violating any court order.
Sorry, don't mean to sound like a know-it-all. I've been pretty active in all this and have done a lot of research into details of how it all works (or doesn't in IL) and thought I'd share.
The court didn't order that a law be passed, they just said that some sections of current UUW law were unconstitutional. Then they stayed the striking of those portions as a courtesy to the legislature. If the ILGA and Gov did absolutely nothing, they wouldn't be violating any court order.
Sorry, don't mean to sound like a know-it-all. I've been pretty active in all this and have done a lot of research into details of how it all works (or doesn't in IL) and thought I'd share.
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Deanimator
Member
Exactly.
To claim otherwise, would be to claim that Brown v. Board of Education allows de jure racial segregation in public schools in DuPage County, but NOT Cook County.
They could go to court and claim that city (or county) law trumps the U.S. Constitution, but they'll almost certainly get kicked in the 'nads... HARD, creating precedent that Bloomberg, Holder and Obama just DON'T want.
From a safe distance the Old Fuff is enjoying the show as the "Chicago mob" comes up against something they can't dominate or control - namely the U.S. Federal Court System. It started the ball rolling with the Supreme Court's decision in MacDonald where they got slapped down in a manner they weren't used to.
The legislature and governor (who are controled by the Chicago mob) can sit tight and do nothing, but then the Court will decide what will or won't be, in the light of MacDonald. Whatever that may be they won't like it. Or they can pass and the governor can sign into law a bill that the big-city-on-the-lake absolutely hates, and they can't hide behind home-rule when the issue is a Constitutionally protected civil right. :banghead:
Somebody please pass the pop-corn...
The legislature and governor (who are controled by the Chicago mob) can sit tight and do nothing, but then the Court will decide what will or won't be, in the light of MacDonald. Whatever that may be they won't like it. Or they can pass and the governor can sign into law a bill that the big-city-on-the-lake absolutely hates, and they can't hide behind home-rule when the issue is a Constitutionally protected civil right. :banghead:
Somebody please pass the pop-corn...
Deanimator
Member
If the pro-gun forces in the Illinois legislature were smart, they'd let Quinn veto the bill, then do NOTHING, legislatively "falling on the ball" til the clock runs out.
THEN there'd be constitutional carry until THEY allowed a bill to advance, giving them ALL the cards. THAT is probably the ONLY way Illinois is going to get shall issue concealed carry as most of the rest of the United States knows it.
Dframe
Member
McCarthy is SUCH a tool of the machine up there. What a pile of bovine feces. He's lumping months of completley unrelated training, in with firearms training. The actual number of hours devoted to firearms and related training is TINY compared to the numbers he is spouting. About the ONLY truth in what he is saying is that mistakes are frequent.
Certaindeaf
member
Yea but you don't even need any training whatsoever to have children and it's really not even guaranteed/spelled out in the constitution (I think).. unlike the second amendment.
That's a red herring with that six month shenanigans.
Yup, he's a turd.
But, the uneducated masses tend to believe what they read in the paper.
Which is why we need to educate. Unfortunately for our side, we don't get balanced reporting. Nor do we have the anywhere close to the bankroll for "Truth" advertising that Rahm/Bloomberg has. And even if we did, we couldn't get the coverage they do because the "machine" owns the media.
Sad state of affairs up there, in Chicago. The people need to hear the truth, but they don't get to.
But, the uneducated masses tend to believe what they read in the paper.
Which is why we need to educate. Unfortunately for our side, we don't get balanced reporting. Nor do we have the anywhere close to the bankroll for "Truth" advertising that Rahm/Bloomberg has. And even if we did, we couldn't get the coverage they do because the "machine" owns the media.
Sad state of affairs up there, in Chicago. The people need to hear the truth, but they don't get to.
The firearms training in the police academy in Illinois is currently 40 hours and about 700 round fired. McCarthy better come up with a POI that documents 6 months of use of force training and 3 months of it in a field training program to the exclusion of all else or I'm calling him a liar.
It's an apples to oranges comparison anyway; Police have arrest powers, can use firearms to confront ANY situation, concealed carry holders do not. We can only draw and use them under imminent threat of serious bodily injury or death.
If we see a bank robbery in progress we have to sit by unless YOU are threatened, in this state. You *can* intercede if another human being is threatened, but at that point the litmus test for justifiable use of deadly force becomes THAT person's (the one being threatened) mindset at the time, and NOT yours. You're gambling on whether that person truly felt afraid for their life. If not? Clank.
If it's a family member, it's a no brainer. If it's a stranger... it's a gamble.
Grant me arrest powers? I'll do 40 hours of training.
Deltaboy1984
Member
This State needs to be taken over by the Fed or giving to Canada.
Iramo94
Member
Haha, what an amazing idea!
It's like the Midas touch, in reverse.
Everything the federal government touches goes to poo.
If we let the federal government make Illinois even worse, maybe then the sheep in Chicago will care.
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