I'm being tempted by the 1911....

[MacTech]

Recently, I've noticed that I'm seriously been contemplating picking up a 1911 type pistol (or a CZ-97...), I love the .45 ACP cartridge, and I shoot it well out of my Glock 21

I really enjoy my Glock 21 as well, but ever since I picked up my CZ-75 9mm, I've been noticing that the G21's grip ergos aren't as nice as the CZ's, and they're just a tad wider than I like

before the CZ, I had no real frame of reference as to what a comfortable grip should be like, my previous 9mm, a Taurus PT-99AF, had a similar blocky grip like the G21

the 1911 and BHP's I've handled do feel more comfortable, but they don't point as well as the G21, with the G21, when I raise the gun to eye level, the sights are generally right on target, and properly aligned, it points very naturally for me, with my CZ, it's always a tad muzzle-down, and I have to raise the muzzle slightly to bring the sights into alignment

Since money is tight for me right now, the only way I could afford a 1911 is to sell/trade the G21, even though I love it, the main thing that's annoying me about it is the length/thickness of the grip, I never understood the "holding a 2x4" comments until recently, comparing the ergonomics of the CZ-75 to the G21, the CZ is more comfortable, mainly in front-to-back length and wrist angle, I know that it's not fair to compare two different handgun types, especially two different calbers, but they're all I have for my frame of reference at the moment

here's my thoughts on my G21, after I've spent a decent amount of trigger time benind it (500+ rounds in the last month or so)

G21 Pros;
Boringly reliable, absolutely 110% reliable
points naturally
when raised to eye level, sights are already aligned and on target
soft, tame recoil
eats any type of ammo you feed it, ball, JHP, EJHP, etc...
simple point-and-click interface, no manual safeties, better in stressful situations
consistent, repeatable trigger pull, no DA/SA issues
Tenifer finish is incredibly durable
32 parts, very simple design
parts easily available if needed
incredibly easy to field strip for cleaning, no tools necessary
so simple to reassemble that a trained chimp could do it
13+ round capacity

G21 cons;
grip ergonomics aren't the best
can't shoot lead out of factory barrel
slightly topheavy
balance point shifts as mag empties
no manual safeties
long-ish trigger pull

1911 Pros;
metal frame balances better and soaks up recoil
multiple manual safeties (slide safety and grip safety)
very accurate
slim, comfortable ergonomics
time-tested, proven design
incredible variety of repair/upgrade/custom parts
classic, timeless looks

1911 Cons;
7 or 8 round capacity
blued firearms have the potential to rust/corrode, their finish is not as durable as tenifer
much more complex to field-strip, requires bushing removal tool for barrel
reassembly is more complicated, chances of creating "idiot marks" on frame if you're inattentive
reliability runs the gamut from horrible to perfect
can be fussy as to what kind of ammo it "likes", HP's can be problematic

I really don't know here, if the G21 had better grip ergos there'd be no question about keeping it, that said, the G21 points incredibly well, it's generally right on target when I raise it to shooting level, I know I could get a grip reduction performed on it, but I imagine that'd void the warranty, I did try a SF version of the G21, but the difference was almost unnoticeable, certainly not worth the price difference

I love the G21's accuracy, soft recoil, and pointability, yet the 1911 feels more comfortable in hand, and has more comfortable grip ergos.....

hmm, decisions, decisions.....

 

[markk]

Everybody should have at least one 1911...

 

[EHL]

buy the 1911. Nothing worth having is ever that easy to maintain. (wife)

 

[SureThing]

I bought 2, and both have now been sold. Not a 1911 man myself.

You should consider the Witness Elite Match IMO, or CZ 97.

Why I do not like the 1911.

Single stack is long and narrow. I would rather have a fat grip.

Expensive for a good one, yet you still may have to tune it a bit. How many I love my Kimber/ I hate my Kimber threads have you read. It is this way for all of 1911 makers. There is simply too much that can go wrong mostly with the extractor. Which IMO is the weak point.

So to each his own, but people cannot say I did not try.

There are things I like about 1911's.

Grip angle
Barrel bushings, I like this.
many aftermarket parts

But that is about it.

 

[tlen]

Everybody should have at least one 1911...

+1. 10 round 1911 magazines are available......

 

[jdc1244]

If you have to think about it so hard, don’t get the 1911 - you either get it or you don’t.

 

[Beagle-zebub]

There is simply too much that can go wrong mostly with the extractor. Which IMO is the weak point.

Who, if anyone, has addressed this problem well? (Custom producers like Wilson don't count.)

 

[conan]

Since money is tight for me right now, the only way I could afford a 1911 is to sell/trade the G21, even though I love it, the main thing that's annoying me about it is the length/thickness of the grip, I never understood the "holding a 2x4" comments until recently, comparing the ergonomics of the CZ-75 to the G21, the CZ is more comfortable, mainly in front-to-back length and wrist angle, I know that it's not fair to compare two different handgun types, especially two different calbers, but they're all I have for my frame of reference at the moment

Do not sell your Glock to get one. Get a good quality 1911, but not at the expense of your Glock. Wait and save money, you cannot afford one now.

 

[Frog48]

If you have to think about it so hard, don’t get the 1911 - you either get it or you don’t.

I agree. 1911's are not for everybody.

With that said... I absolutely love my Springfield 1911, and wouldnt trade it for anything.

 

[Baneblade]

I would keep the Glock and save for the 1911. I own both, shoot both, but only depend on one for my life. I have never owned a 1911 that was highly reliable, and that includes Colt, Springfield, and Kimber. They do well, but simply are not as reliable as the Glock.

Anyhow, prices on high capacity pistols might be going up considerably after the election. Or new production might be banned again. Unless all semi-auto handguns are banned, 1911 should still be available.

Here is the most important question though. What do YOU really want?

 

[ruger4d4]

Smith & wesson's external extractor works flawlessly. I have yet to run into a S&W 1911 owner that doesnt agree

 

[ZombieKiller]

i would suggest either a Colt or a Springfield. it seems that Rock Island Armory makes good 1911s as well. I have a Taurus PT1911, but IMHO those are more show than go

 

[smartshooter.45]

1911>Glock

its true that some 1911's dont work 100% right out of the box but usually you can get them to run 100% with about 10 minutes worth of easy work (polish feed ramp/tune extractor). for me there is no better feel then a 1911. i love the ergonomics, the accuracy, the firepower, reliability, and the look. when i concealed carry my pro carry 2 it totally disappears behind my shirt and is one of the safest pistol designs while in the locked and loaded state. glocks are ugly, blocky, and have too fat a grip imo. good luck with your choice.

 

[Beagle-zebub]

Smith & wesson's external extractor works flawlessly. I have yet to run into a S&W 1911 owner that doesnt agree

That's what I figured when I asked, too. Hmm.

And let's not forget those Para Power Extractors!

 

[CPshooter]

IMO the 9mm and .40S&W Glocks are the best ones they make. Specifically the 19/23 and the 26/27. The Glocks chambered for .45 ACP are just too big and bulky for me to enjoy shooting. That being said, I still think you should keep the Glock, especially if you shoot it well. You probably won't get enough money out of it to cover the cost of a "decent" 1911 anyways. You'll have to add money more than likely. Besides, everyone should have at least one Glock in their collection. (My only Glock is a 19 with factory night sights)

Also, have you tried an XD .45? I've owned both Glocks and XDs and I think the XD is a better .45 than the Glock .45s as far as ergomonics are concerned. 13+1 is hard to ignore...

I say get a 1911 too! My opinion on 1911s is that they are better range guns than practical self-defense tools, but that's also because I prefer hi-cap polymer autos without safeties (ie Glock, XD, etc) for self defense. Obviously, that's just my opinion and any *reliable* 1911 will get the job done as well.

 

[robctwo]

If the larger grip is bothering you, the CZ97 isn't going to be any better. I have smallish hands and found that the 1911 really works well for me. I got started shooting CZ75BD, BHP, Glock 17 & 34 and Sig 226. When I decided to go nuts and start shooting the .45 I bought the Sig 220.

After a short while I bought a SA Black Stainless Target. It felt funny to me with the slim grips. I put full size palm swells on it. After many thousands of rounds, and a couple upgrades on the 1911 I finally sold both the Sigs to finance a 9mm Les Baer PII. Put slim Esmeraldas on it and have found my favorite gun. The SA has the slim grips on it now with a Ciener .22 top.

If the 1911 grip fits you, it might turn out to be your favorite as well. Then you have a real problem..........

 

[krs]

If you buy a 1911 it will annoy you, (tsk, you poor thing).

Better not, there are too many annoyances involved, especially that extractor problem...

 

[airbornerangerboogie]

I've sold all of my tupperware and bought 1911 platforms. Does that mean I've not in favor of plastic?, no, or that I'll never buy another?, no. I simply like the 1911 better. It really boils down to personal opinion, not that one is better than the other.

In regards to you Pro's and Con's
If you're in a situation where you need 13, 16, 19 rounds, most likely your first 3 or 4 rounds were effective against one or two of the BG's the rest of your ammo would be used to clear a path to your rifle. This is only MHO, but it's only a "warm fuzzy" having a large cap. mags. Statistically, you're fire fight will last under 5 seconds and involve less than 3 rounds to decide the outcome, if I remember my Stats right.

As far as problems with the 1911, most are due to tight tolerances and require a break in period. A good carry to consider would be a Mil-Spec 1911, it may not be as accurate as the higher end ones, but it's built for combat. Good Luck and Stay Safe no matter what you decide.

 

[Claude Clay]

you sound very analytical. sometimes ya just jump in; sometimes ua don't. a 1911 can be like a sporty race car....you can drive it easy or push hard and the limits are you, not the machine. a glock is like your daddy's subaru--dependable, last forever and boring.
buy a stainless model.

no bushing tool if you remove the slide first.
idiot mark: its a tool--its made to be used--practice failour drills/reassembly under stress and it will happen. i'd rather have the mark than a visit from murphy. that said--there is a difference between a deep gouge and a shallow, light scratch mark.
most today that are ammo sensitive are well know up front--so dont buy that model.

there is also that "locked and loaded" aspect of carry you need to address.
grip angle is different than glock. fire 2 or 3 sticks to introduce your wrist to the 'new' position. you need to overcome muscle memory.

good that you are thinking but for now it sounds like you should stay with the subaru.

 

[Walkalong]

I love 1911's. I can barely bring myself to buy an auto of another design.

I do have an XD SC in .40 that I really like a lot, a TZ in 9MM that is nice, and I had a really nice Witness Elite Match in .40 (Sold it, I would rather have that gun in .45 or 9MM), but 1911's are the best thing out there, for me.

 

[Legionnaire]

I understand that money is tight. Nevertheless, I'd recommend holding off a purchase until you can buy a 1911 without selling the G21. Best to be able to take them both to the range for a while. If, after some time, you relegate the Glock to "safe queen," you're ready to sell. I've sold lots of guns, but never before having its satisfactory replacement in hand. As a consequence, few if any regrets following the sale.


Oh, and agree with the post, "Everybody should have at least one 1911 ..." even though I only recently bought my first. I doubt I'll replace all my other handguns with 1911s, but there really does need to be at least one in the safe!

 

[cinteal]

blued firearms have the potential to rust/corrode, their finish is not as durable as tenifer

Most midrange manufacturers are using some sort of Armortuff, etc. Very durable and will not rust. On that note, routine cleaning should keep a nontreated gun in pristine condition. The Glock may not rust as readily, but it can make it easier to overlook routine (needed) maintenance.

much more complex to field-strip, requires bushing removal tool for barrel

It does not. I'm sure there's one out there, but so far I've not seen a 5 inch standard barrelled 1911 that I can't take down to the barrel in less than 30 seconds, sans tools. A couple of my Wilsons might take 35 beacuse they have such tight bushings. Hurts like hell on some of the heavier recoil springs, but that's atypical unless shooting +P. I'm talking 80+ different guns. You do need something for the bull barrels to detain the recoil spring, but that can be fashioned out of almost anything, in a pinch. If you have a full lenth guide rod, the bushing wrench is really nice as what you're pressing on is a ring instead of a button. Still not necessary.

reassembly is more complicated, chances of creating "idiot marks" on frame if you're inattentive

IMO, a 1911 scarred to hell still looks better than a Glock. I'm not knocking Glocks, I think they are great innovations in combat weaponry . . . but they're so ugly they're maybe good looking. Anyway, there are numerous resources that describe proper takedown of the 1911. You won't make idiot marks once you get the hang. Take your time putting the slide stop back in, no problem.

reliability runs the gamut from horrible to perfect

Depends. Milsurp 1911s can be dragged through muddy sand and still function. Might not be able to hit anything with them, but they'll function. The more custom guns (Wilson, Baer, Nighthawk, Kimber Custom) are tested for function. Reliability has never been a problem for me from these manufacturers. I know I'll get hammered for this, but I don't trust Springfield 1911s as far as I can throw them, and I've thrown one because it was not reliable. This is an area where you get what you pay for.

can be fussy as to what kind of ammo it "likes", HP's can be problematic

This is part of reliability testing. In most cases (no pun), it's a simple as polishing the barrel ramp . . . if you bought one from a manufacturer that ramps the barrel. I own 26 1911s (mostly Kimber) and have never had a problem with any of them shooting hollowpoints. As far as what it "likes", it's a pistol, not a rifle. It's throwing a hunk a lead at a target . . . slowly. With a decent barrel, it's not going to be any more finicky than a Glock. In fact, in my experience, Glocks are more finicky than 1911s. I will say this . . . the 1911 was designed to shoot 230 gr FMJ. When it gets to you, that's what it should be set to shoot. 200 grain will function just fine with standard setup, but 185s probably need a lighter recoil spring. And, like you said, that's a big pro for the 1911, endless tweeking.

Not my first pistol, but the first pistol I purchased was a Glock 31. I liked it, still do. The first 1911 I shot . . . no more buying Glocks. They fit me better, I shoot better with 1911s than Glocks. I have buddies that are just the opposite.

Shoot one before you buy one. Doesn't matter how they point in a shop, matters how YOU SHOOT them. If you don't have buddies with the 1911 or someone at a range that shoots 1911s, don't get it yet. And, YES, save your money to buy a quality manufactured 1911. You'll know better if you want to sell your Glock AFTER you've shot a 1911.

 

[Nosrac]

Don't ever buy a 1911! Once you do you will end up buying more of them and pretty soon you have a nice little collection sitting in your gun safe. It's an addiction and hard one to cure.

 

[ZombieKiller]

haha! yeah, don't buy a 1911, ITS TOO GOOD

 

[JeremySmith]

Bushing tool? Ever notice that the bottom of the mag (without the pad) is the same shape as the bottom of the bushing? It's the first thing I go for if I'm field stripping mine. I'm carrying one in the hole, and 8 in the mag, so capacity's not too bad. With factory ammo, it is totally reliable - Mine's one of the first Kimbers and has a couple thousand rounds thru it.

A glock is a fine weapon, and if you shoot good with it - keep it.