Improving Accuracy, 45ACP, SIG P220, Zero 185gr, JHP

[vaalpens]

Can’t remember. Are you using a random rest?

Yes, I probably use a "random" rest since I get random results. I definitely don't use a "ransom" rest.

 

[1KPerDay]

Yes, I probably use a "random" rest since I get random results. I definitely don't use a "ransom" rest.

I asked because your groups are remarkably good. I’ve shot maybe one group like that in my life but you seem to be able to do it consistently

 

[vaalpens]

I asked because your groups are remarkably good. I’ve shot maybe one group like that in my life but you seem to be able to do it consistently

Thanks for the compliment, I do appreciate it.

This is basically what I use. A foldup table, with an MTM rest. The back part where your hands go is not very good, so I use one or two small towels for my hands to rest on. The hand rest is one area I need to try and improve upon. To the left is the P220 I used in the test with the mounted scope.

 

[1KPerDay]

Ah, a scope! Interesting.

 

[lordpaxman]

Is that a rail mounted scope? Who makes that mount? Thanks for all the load work up work. My P220 is an older German Elite and has combat night sights - I’d probably get touching holes on paper if I sent 50 down range.

 

[LiveLife]

Ah, a scope! Interesting.

Is that a rail mounted scope? Who makes that mount?

IMI Defense for $28 - https://www.amazon.com/IMI-Defense-Polymer-Scope-IMI-ZPM01BLACK/dp/B0C9TLNQNB/ref=sr_1_1

While polymer IMI Defense scope mount worked well for railed Sig 1911 with multiple slots, what I found was weight of scope would push the back of polymer mount down to move POA up and I got aluminium FAB Defense Universal Pistol Mount which resolved this issue - https://www.amazon.com/Mako-Universal-Picatinny-Mount-Pistols/dp/B004O6CDV0/ref=sr_1_5

Since my Gen3 Glock 22 had only one rail slot, I had to modify the mount to be able to slide it back for more secure mounting (Otherwise mount was not secure and scope moved around) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...endence-from-work.853305/page-4#post-11219888

IMI Defense mount modified for more secure mounting - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...endence-from-work.853305/page-4#post-11219925

This modification allowed for more secure mounting but the weight of scope still lowered the rear of scope so I would only recommend IMI Defense mount for lighter weight/smaller Red Dot optics - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...endence-from-work.853305/page-4#post-11221405

And FAB Defense released a polymer mount for Glock to address this issue by providing rear anchor point to prevent scope drop/POA rising for $45 - https://www.amazon.com/GIS-Glock-Tactical-Scope-Defense/dp/B007ASIUYS/ref=sr_1_20

Fireclub version for $5 (Yes, I already ordered one and will do a review) - https://www.amazon.com/FIRECLUB-Tactical-Flashlight-Universal-Picatinny/dp/B01E732I3W/ref=sr_1_27

 

[murf]

Thanks for the compliment, I do appreciate it.

This is basically what I use. A foldup table, with an MTM rest. The back part where your hands go is not very good, so I use one or two small towels for my hands to rest on. The hand rest is one area I need to try and improve upon. To the left is the P220 I used in the test with the mounted scope.

View attachment 1172645

do you have to allow for parallax on that scope setup?

murf

 

[vaalpens]

do you have to allow for parallax on that scope setup?

murf

The parallax is not adjustable and it is set for 50 yards. So at 15 yards I just need to try and line up exactly the same way every time. It is not perfect, but still way better than the alternative of using open sights to test my loads.

 

[vaalpens]

Is that a rail mounted scope? Who makes that mount? Thanks for all the load work up work. My P220 is an older German Elite and has combat night sights - I’d probably get touching holes on paper if I sent 50 down range.

I also use the IMI defense scope mount. It seems to work well on the sig proprietary rail, a very tight fit. It is actually made for the picatinny rail, but is not as tight a fit. My SIG SP2022 has a picatinny rail, but I think the scope moves since I never see very accurate results. The live life writeup is excellent in describing the issues with the scope mounts.

 

[murf]

The parallax is not adjustable and it is set for 50 yards. So at 15 yards I just need to try and line up exactly the same way every time. It is not perfect, but still way better than the alternative of using open sights to test my loads.

have you tried moving the scope closer, or farther away, as to create that dark fuzzy ring around the crosshairs? that may help you better align your eyeball with the scope axis.

luck,

murf

 

[Walkalong]

Yep, an old trick.

 

[vaalpens]

have you tried moving the scope closer, or farther away, as to create that dark fuzzy ring around the crosshairs? that may help you better align your eyeball with the scope axis.

luck,

murf

Thanks for the advise. I think the length is just outside when the fuzzy ring disappears, so it is probably the same every time. I try not to change position once I start with the 5 rounds, and I basically line up, and pull the trigger. I don't spend much time trying to be precise at when I do this testing. With the follow up round I normally take more time and try to be more precise.

I can always spend the money and buy a parallax free 2x20 scope.

 

[vaalpens]

Yep, an old trick.

Thanks for the advise.

 

[Blue68f100]

Use a Diamond shape target to help align the cross airs. I use these when I have a scope with the heavy lines. Just gives you another reference on alignment.

 

[murf]

probably not worth a new scope to solve the parallax issue [if there even is an issue].

@Blue68f100 reminded me of another trick: put up a square bulled target and set the lower left corner of the square against the upper right quadrant of the crosshair. leave a sliver of white between the two. this works great when testing a load using a scope with thick crosshairs.

luck,

murf

 

[Walkalong]

a parallax free 2x20 scope.

I don't know what yardage this scope's parallax is set at, but I'm sure it's short.
I bought it with the scope attached, factory rear sight was included.
It's a little Bushnell Phantom II 1.3X.

 

[vaalpens]

Use a Diamond shape target to help align the cross airs. I use these when I have a scope with the heavy lines. Just gives you another reference on alignment.

probably not worth a new scope to solve the parallax issue [if there even is an issue].

@Blue68f100 reminded me of another trick: put up a square bulled target and set the lower left corner of the square against the upper right quadrant of the crosshair. leave a sliver of white between the two. this works great when testing a load using a scope with thick crosshairs.

luck,

murf

Thanks for all the advise. I do appreciate it.

I have different targets depending on what I use. With the scope my targets I print have also evolved. For now it seems a colored .75" diameter center works best for me at 15yards. It has enough contrast, and small enough to so if I put the crosshair in the center, and it is an accurate load, then I should see a small group.

 

[vaalpens]

I don't know what yardage this scope's parallax is set at, but I'm sure it's short.
I bought it with the scope attached, factory rear sight was included.
It's a little Bushnell Phantom II 1.3X.
View attachment 1172896

Thanks for sharing. That looks like a good solid setup. It seems these single magnification lightweight scopes are more difficult to get. eBay is probably a good place to look for them.

 

[vaalpens]

The planning for my next test loads using Bullseye is taking shape. I have not finalized the powder range yet, but following is what I am planning:
Cases: Federal
Primers: Federal 150 large pistol
Case length: Different lengths, but all 5 rounds for each load will be same length case.
Powder: Bullseye
Bullet: Zero 185gr JHP
COL: 1.200"
Load weights: Not finalized, but probably: 4.6, 4.7, 4.8, 4.9, 5.0, 5.1

 

[vaalpens]

I thought I finalized my next loads using Bullseye, then I stumbled on some Nosler load data for their 185gr JHP bullet. The COL is the same as what I use for the Zero bullet so they are probably close in length.

The Nosler load data had both Bullseye and AA#5, but it indicates that AA#5 was the most accurate powder tested. AA#5 should give a different feel, so I think I am changing plans and will be going with AA#5. What I am planning:
Primers: Federal 150 large pistol
Case: Winchester
Case length: Different lengths, but all 5 rounds for each load will be same length case.
Powder: AA#5
Bullet: Zero 185gr JHP
COL: 1.200"
Load weights: Not finalized, but probably: 8.3, 8.4, 8.5, 8.6, 8.7, 8.8

Now I just need to make up my mind, load the bullet and go test my loads.

 

[vaalpens]

My apologies for not providing any new test results for the Zero 185gr bullet, but over the last few weeks I have started reloading a new cartridge, 380Auto, which took time away from my Zero 185gr JHP thread.

I will probably try and also test my HP-38 loads when I test my first 380Auto loads, and then test the next powder loads, when I test my second batch of 380Auto loads.

Life cannot be planned perfectly, and that is probably the same for reloading plans.

 

[vaalpens]

I am planning a car trip this Christmas, which means I need to build some 380auto inventory for shooting during the trip. This means, no 380auto load development at this time. This obviously opened a window for my Zero 185gr JGP load development.

Today I finalized the [planning for my Bullseye loads and loaded them. BE has a wide powder range, but I decided to target some loads posted in the bullseye forum. It seems the Zero 185gr does well around 4.5gr, so I bracketed 4.5gr and went with 4.2gr to 4.7gr with my standard COL of 1.200".

For now the plan is to test my HP-38 and Bullseye loads before I go on my trip. Both of these powders should perform well, so I am looking forward to the results. The pressure is definitely now on me, the shooter.

Will keep you posted.

 

[vaalpens]

Reloading testing life is tough in the Pacific North West this time of the year. I haven't been able to test any of my Zero bullet loads due to snow and temperatures. I'm not sure how temperatures will affect my loads, but I probably need to wait until we are back in the 40/50's before testing the loads for accuracy and velocity.

These are the loads I am planning to test:


No need to respond to this post, since it was purely done to keep the thread alive until I can get back to testing and creating more test loads.

 

[Walkalong]

Reloading testing life is tough in the Pacific North West this time of the year.

I don't doubt it. Brrrr.

It's gotten been below freezing about 5 out of the last 14 days here, we ain't used to that!

Good looking rounds.