Interesting article about terminal ballistics!

[ms6852]

I read this article and would like to pass it on, I found it very informative from a man that works at a morgue and his perspective of terminal ballistics from cadavers.

http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal Ballistics as viewed in a morgue.htm

 

[Clifford]

Wow long read but interesting. I live a low threat life so I'll keep my snubbie .38.

 

[tkopp]

I enjoyed it. From the looks of things, the thread got dogmatic and broke down eventually in the midst of name-calling.

The author gives an interesting perspective, but his inhibition against speculation limited his analysis. He never made bones about what he was offering, but off the top of my head;

Bad guys tend to use what they can get their hands on, and that primarily means .22s, .32s, .380s, and 9mm. If those with the means to choose their weapons and practice self-select for .40s and .45s (and that's a big leap of faith, I admit), that would certainly lead to a lower wound-to-kill ratio for those calibers.

Or perhaps it's the nature of the morgue -- his 'clients' are those that died. The flinch involved with being an inexperienced shooter of a .45 weighing less than a full-sized 1911 can be tremendous. If the likelihood of hitting center mass with several .45 rounds is lower than the likelihood of hitting center mass several times with a 9mm, he will only see the 'magic' .45s that hit something critical and not the many single wounding cases that the hospital was able to solve.

Or maybe it really is superior. I carry a .45 because while I'm not sure it's much better than a 9mm, I don't see how it could be worse! And I just practice carrying an extra mag or two as clothing allows to circumvent the biggest weakness of the platform. But the cumulative posts by that morgue worker sure were thought-provoking, which I'm sure was his point.

 

[ms6852]

I carry a 1911 too, and always practice at 25 yds. I Figure if I can hit a 3" spot in a paper plate its a bonus, and all shots in the paper plate is center mass for any would be threat coming at me or my family. I purchase a 642 for my wife with laser grips because she wanted it small and light, and was surprised to find out how lousy a shot I was with this pistol compared to 1911. I literally had to get within 5 to 7 yds to hit the paper plate and even though there were hits they were all over the place. I am now in search of a 3" or 4" barrel revolver for the wife. The accuracy on the snub nose are terrible. They are truly "Belly Guns" you shove it in their stomach and squeeze the trigger. She won't practice as much as I would like her too because the recoil is hard on her hand so the 3" inch or 4" barrel will tame the recoil some. I guess the 642 becomes my back up and wear it in the ankle.

 

[dec41971]

I have a full size Beretta Px4 9mm, Walther P22 .22, Walther PPS 9mm, Kimber Ultra Covert II (3.2" 1911) .45 Take a guess how they stack up in my shooting accuracy?

• 3.2" 1911 .45
• 3.4" Walther P22 .22
• 3.4" Walther PPS 9mm
• 5" Beretta Px4 9mm

Let me also say I am not a great shot by any measure, but at 10 yards or closer, I get all shots inside the 8 ring on a standard B27 Silhouette. Most in the 9 ring afew in the 10. My 1911 is most spot on, but the others all seem to go a bit low and left. Someone told me it has to do with American gun vs European guns. My first shot with the stupid Beretta goes somewhere off the paper unless I rack it first. No idea how far off, but definitely nowhere on paper. Using the OP's report as a basis, what does all this say? Analysis please. Oh there is not much variation in my shooting accuracy at all either. My 2 favorites are the 1911 and the PPS.

 

[Boberama]

416 Rigby?...

 

[Oyeboten]

I'm thinking .700 Nitro Express...( 1000 grn, 2,600 fps, 14,000-odd ft-lbs...go right through a BG, and on into the next County, carrying a tapering cloud trail of him condensing behind like fog, too...)

Otherwise, my daily pal, is an old .38 Special...if now and then, a 1911...and plenty of circumspect.

 

[Chemistry Guy]

I am not sure that the poster is genuine. "Thousands of autopsies a year".... that sounds more like Rio de Janeiro or Mogadishu or something than Atlanta. Looking at crime statistic, the greater Atlanta metro area has never seen more than 300 homicides a year, and that was back in the late 80s, early 90s. The data does not include suicides, but still, that is way more gun deaths than that area sees. Also, most homicides are not the results of gun battles, and the stereotypical account of gang-bangers emptying clips of 9mm with their weapons held sideways above their heads sounds more like a personal fantasy than a scientific account.

A former student of mine was a medical examiner at the morgue (Hamilton County Coroner's office) in Cincinnati, Ohio before he went back to school. From his description of the operation there, on who examines bodies, on what types of analyses are run, etc. this guy's account does not match up. Unless the writer was counting routine toxicology measurements (such as BAC in a car crash), the volume of autopsies he is talking about is absurdly high.

What he says about terminal ballistics is somewhat plausible, but it strikes me as being made up to justify his choice of caliber. Maybe I am just suspicious, but you have to be on the internet where it can be very difficult to fact-check.

 

[dom1104]

I agree. This article has been around for a LONG time and is generally recognized as propoganda and "missing the ring of truth".

He "DESPISES" things and is really super florid in his language.

Some people will go really long lengths to discredit certain handgun rounds, this guy is one of em.

 

[loneviking]

Well, after 30 years of working around E.R.'s and helping to treat quite a few gunshot wounds, I've seen every caliber mentioned work and also fail.

The maligned 9mm is actually a pretty good round IF you practice with it and can place your shots accurately. Remember too who you are and why you carry. Most of us carry 'just in case', and the 9mm is a small round that lends itself to a small, easily concealed weapon. It's easy to have a 9mm on you at all times, and with the defensive rounds available today the 9mm is nothing to sneeze at.

The 45 is a bigger round, which means a bigger gun frame, and to get the same ease of concealment you're looking at a single stack .45 with only 5 or 6 rounds, versus 9 rounds of 9mm in a similar package.

As for the military complaints of the 9mm, well, 9mm ball ammo is pretty lousy. So, too, is .45 ball ammo. I've shot military .45 ball from a XD 45 into Pinyon pine rounds (a very hard wood) and have gotten virtually no deformation of the rounds. Shoot somebody with that stuff and the only way to harm 'em would be by the kinetic energy and not by the round mushrooming. Combine that with the awful handgun training the U.S.Army does today and it's no wonder the troops would rather 'spray and pray' with a .45 instead of a 9mm.

Pick a weapon that you can conceal easily and shoot without flinching, practice reguarly and load it with quality defensive rounds. The rest is up to luck or fate.