Interesting discussion with EAA Tech service..have a laugh..

[saturno_v]

I personally don't think the 10mm Witness is quite up to full house 10mm loads.

Definitely yes.
That's why they cannot be considered real 10 mm Auto pistols.

And yes EAA knows this very well. That's why their gunsmith gets irritated and gives you such ridiculous answers when you ask them about Corbon or Double Tap.

 

[atblis]

Well

I do consider them real 10mm pistols but I
-Will only buy them cheap
-Don't expect them to last forever.
-Expect no assistance from EAA of any kind even when they fail due to manufacturers defects which are more common than with reputable manufacturers.
-Don't always shoot full 10mm loads. Generally shoot cast lead at ~1100fps
-Will only buy them cheap

Probably my favorite autoloader to shoot.

Tanfoglio has some issues, it's not just EAA. They occasionally ship some stuff they really shouldn't have.

 

[saturno_v]

Well

I do consider them real 10mm pistols but I
-Will only buy them cheap
-Don't expect them to last forever.
-Expect no assistance from EAA of any kind even when they fail due to manufacturers defects which are more common than with reputable manufacturers.
-Don't always shoot full 10mm loads. Generally shoot cast lead at ~1100fps
-Will only buy them cheap

Probably my favorite autoloader to shoot.

Tanfoglio has some issues, it's not just EAA. They occasionally ship some stuff they really shouldn't have.

I'm sorry but I do not agree

If a firearm cannot comfortably fire a reasonable amount of ammo totally within the SAAMI specs for that caliber without cracking, it cannot be seriously considered.

If I want the performance of a .40 S&W, I get a forty....more choice of ammo, models and cheaper to shoot.

They should correctly market the Witness as "10 mm Auto FBI load"...or better withdraw that chambering for the pistol altogether if it cannot withstand the battering of a true 10 mm load in order to avoid user headaches, confusion and technical problems.

 

[ParaElite]

Dare we differentiate between the Witness Steel and the Witness Elite Match in 10mm? If the Wolf heavier spring does not seem to help, what about the Springco Recoil management system - a replacement of the recoil spring guide rod with its own spring and over that the Wolf main spring? Could it be that they changed the shape - the geometry of the Witness Steel slide or even maybe the metalurgy or hardening process was skimped on. From all the (lurking) reading of past threads, I noticed that the cracked slides phenomenon occurs only on the newer Witness Steel guns and not on the older Witness Steel guns nor on the Witness Elite Match guns in 10mm. Of course, I may have made an incorrect observation. Just trying to gather data from the enjoyable lurking.

 

[saturno_v]

EAA would not recommend the use of Corbon, Double Tap or Buffalo Bore ammo even for the older Witness with the square slide top or the Witness Elite Match.....

 

[atblis]

Well

If a firearm cannot comfortably fire a reasonable amount of ammo totally within the SAAMI specs for that caliber without cracking, it cannot be seriously considered.

Define reasonable.

The biggest problem with EAA's high pressure ammo spiel is that they use it for everything. The run of spontaneously detaching rear sights they sold a few years ago was blamed on "high pressure" ammo. It was a pretty common problem and pretty easily remedied. I don't know why they chose to be such ass hats about it.

From all the (lurking) reading of past threads, I noticed that the cracked slides phenomenon occurs only on the newer Witness Steel guns and not on the older Witness Steel guns nor on the Witness Elite Match guns in 10mm. Of course, I may have made an incorrect observation. Just trying to gather data from the enjoyable lurking.

The older guns had cracking issues as well. It isn't limited to the newer guns. It isn't what I'd call common though. Casting can be a tricky process, and I don't think Tanfoglio always gets it quite right.

 

[saturno_v]

Define reasonable.

For me reasonable is at least a couple of thousand rounds with full SAAMI specs ammo...any firearms for a give caliber should pass this minimum test.
I do not think the Witness is up to the task, unless someone figured out some dramatic modifications.

 

[shooter1]

Guess I got lucky. I have had a Wonder Finish 10mm fullsize for about 6yrs. Ran a lot of pretty stiff handloads, and a couple hundred Silvertips thru mine with no problems. Not a bad deal for the $330 OTD I paid for it.
str1

 

[Japle]

Too bad that jackass is still employed as the “gunsmith” at EAA. They have the worst customer service in the industry and he’s a big part of it.

I spoke to Mr. Tanfoglio about this at the SHOT Show in 2007. He didn’t want to listen. He turned his back on me.
I got around in front of him and, at a range of about 2”, called him a whole string of names that I learned from SEALs. Made no impression at all.
They just don’t care about customer service.

 

[atblis]

Yeah

The 10mm Witness is probably my favorite autoloading pistol, but I won't buy them new simply because of EAA. I'll pick up used ones if they're cheap.

That being said, there are people with 10mm Witnesses with more than a few thousand rounds of full tilt 10mm loads. I think many of the slide cracks that have shown up are due more to manufacturing screw ups by Tanfoglio more so than the 10mm pressures and ability to generate slide velocity. They're is such a thing as too hard, and casting is a quite tricky process.

When I say drastically reduced life span, I mean
CZ 75B or Witness 9mm 50k+ rounds is not unusual
10mm Witness with full tilt 10mm loads, I'd expect 10k or less

Most Witnesses will last long enough for you to get your monies worth out of them.

EDIT: BTW, I believe the infamous Paul Richter is VP of EAA and possibly part owner. That should give you a good indication of why EAA will never change.