No 10 mm pistol I like or trust...any decent .40 loads for "light" wildlife defense??

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I can't believe you'd turn down a Glock 20 (or 29, if you like smaller) simply because it has a DAO trigger and is plastic? Wow. Come on man, I think you're being a bit close-minded here. There aren't many other pistols in competition with the Glock in 10mm platform. Actually, when it comes to reliability, simplicity, durability AND higher capacity? There IS no gun that is in competition with the Glock 20 and/or 29 for good black bear woods defense.

And this genius above us saying how the 10mm can't handle bear, then talks about Alaska. Did you read the other posts? We're talking BLACK bear, not huge grizzly! People have taken black bear down with 10mm Glocks, as much as you have your doubts... do homework before you judge please? ;)

Throw a 6" barrel in your Glock 20 (I'd strongly suggest this) and you're looking at roughly 1430 fps from DoubleTaps' 200 grain WFNGC Beartooth round, producing somewhere around 890 to 900 ft. lbs. energy, and can easily penetrate a black bear with such force.

This even rivals (or is superior to) a certain .41 Magnum 210 gr. round (from Corbon, I believe?) which had around 860 ft. lbs. energy from a 6" revolver.

Have you even shot a Glock 20 or 29 yet? I mean, come on! There're always people that don't like "the feel" of Glocks in a gunshop, but when they actually SHOOT them (they were meant for shooting, not touchy-feely stuff...) they actually like them.

Ted Nugent goes hunting with his 10mm Glock 20 (and in Africa sometimes) all the time. That says a lot, now doesn't it. ;) He knows more about guns than anyone on this forum, I'd bet my house on it.

Trust me on this: GIVE GLOCKS A CHANCE! Get the Glock 20 or 29 (can get pinky extension if don't like stock grip on 29)!

Glock 20 - 16 round capacity

Glock 29 - 11 round capacity

Plenty for multiple attackers, and still good enough to CCW (the 29 is, or 20 if you can conceal it) with nice JHP ammo, and higher capacity than a revolver, by far. True multi-tasker pistols here, my friend.

I'm getting a G29 for CCW and woods defense. I live in the woods, and bear sightings by my neighbor just last year; bear sightings even in Richmond VA the other day! lol! I'm totally confident a G29 with "hot" DoubleTap 200 gr. FMJ / BT rounds will take down a black bear. There're posters on another forum saying they've hunted with their Glock 20, along with .44 Magnum and .357 Magnum, and said they had no big difference in how long it took for the deer to drop, nor in the wound seen afterward. Very similar in comparison. Nothing to worry about guys, get the 10mm... just make sure it's DoubleTap, and not that watered down garbage the others sell.

DoubleTap 10mm ammo: http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/ca...21_25&osCsid=8dbe528c19cc480dbb5ea999e06ddc5d
 
I can't believe you'd turn down a Glock 20 (or 29, if you like smaller) simply because it has a DAO trigger and is plastic? Wow. Come on man, I think you're being a bit close-minded here. There aren't many other pistols in competition with the Glock in 10mm platform. Actually, when it comes to reliability, simplicity, durability AND higher capacity? There IS no gun that is in competition with the Glock 20 and/or 29 for good black bear woods defense.

And this genius above us saying how the 10mm can't handle bear, then talks about Alaska. Did you read the other posts? We're talking BLACK bear, not huge grizzly! People have taken black bear down with 10mm Glocks, as much as you have your doubts... do homework before you judge please?

Throw a 6" barrel in your Glock 20 (I'd strongly suggest this) and you're looking at roughly 1430 fps from DoubleTaps' 200 grain WFNGC Beartooth round, producing somewhere around 890 to 900 ft. lbs. energy, and can easily penetrate a black bear with such force.

This even rivals (or is superior to) a certain .41 Magnum 210 gr. round (from Corbon, I believe?) which had around 860 ft. lbs. energy from a 6" revolver.

Have you even shot a Glock 20 or 29 yet? I mean, come on! There're always people that don't like "the feel" of Glocks in a gunshop, but when they actually SHOOT them (they were meant for shooting, not touchy-feely stuff...) they actually like them.

Ted Nugent goes hunting with his 10mm Glock 20 (and in Africa sometimes) all the time. That says a lot, now doesn't it. He knows more about guns than anyone on this forum, I'd bet my house on it.

Trust me on this: GIVE GLOCKS A CHANCE! Get the Glock 20 or 29 (can get pinky extension if don't like stock grip)!
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I don't know man...I respect Glock immensely, they work....for some reasons I do not like them aestetically and the plastic feeling..I shot the 9 mm ones and they are accurate and reliable...is more a "psycological" thing than anything else...

However I called Glock Customer Service today (after my EAA bad experience, evaluating the company's service before buying a brand new gun is a must for me) and I was impressed.
Glock is one of the few companies that pays for shipping to and from, I got to talk with their technician immediately, very knowledgeable and corteous...what a difference form EAA...

I just got my P-11 so maybe I will warm up more to the polymer guns just give me time :D:D:D:D
Or if I find a screaming deal on a Glock 20...
 
The Glock Model 20 and Model 29 are the best 10mmAuto handguns under $700 currently on the market.

Look for a S&W 3rd generation 10mmAuto handgun, if you can't get over your "no likey plastic feel" gripe. The S&W Model 1006 and Model 1076, were some of the best metal framed 10mmAuto pistols ever made.
 
Okay. Well, glad to see you opening your mind a little more. :D :neener:

BTW: For the 10mm doubters among us: Someone on another forum from Alaska said the Glock 10mm pistols were very popular in Alaska for bear defense. Guess they're not only good for black bear, huh?

Of course a .44 Mag or .500 Mag is better (shotgun with slugs being among the best)... but the 10mm is still good, as long as you have non-watered down rounds, and better with a 6" barrel for even more velocity. Plus, the whole "Multiple attackers" thing, you're all set for with the higher capacity magazines in your Glocks. :D

You'll have a bit less recoil with the Glocks, too! Nice for follow-up shots on target.
 
I really do not care for Glocks. But I own a G20. I put a #22 spring and a LWD barrel, and it is my CCW weapon. I hate to give ammo to the glockophiles, but the G20 is a fine pistol. If only the glock culture was as good....
 
You don't care for Glocks, yet you CCW one? Mhmm... :D

Well, maybe you hate Glock owners; that doesn't mean you hate Glocks themselves. Learn the difference, maybe? :p
 
Sorry but not a big fan of the 1911 design.

That pretty much leave out Delta Elite, Kimber and Dan Wesson...
 
I carry a Glock 20 with my 180 xtp reloads at 1250fps when I am hiking and like it alot. Some day I would like to get a dan wesson 10mm if money permits or may even get a G29.
 
Get a Para Ordnance p16 and convert it to 10mm. You can either buy a separate barrel, or have the existing one reamed to 10mm specs. Change out the springs, and you're good to go with 16 + 1 rounds. Oh, yes. . .
 
I am a private forester in Michigan. I've spent most of my working life in remote forests. Many of them are straight up bear habitat with densities of bear higher than most of the Pacific Northwest.

I had a bear in my backyard, 20 yards from where I am writing from right now, 2 years ago.

You hikers are weekend warriors. I think it's funny that you feel you need a gun in the outdoors.

I am licensed to carry a pistol. Do you know why? Because I got sick of having to unload the cartridges from my magazines to follow the law. In this state, l.e.o.s may consider your gun loaded if a mag has 1 or more rounds in it. Silly - I know, but the bottom line is there were times I liked to hunt grouse while cruising timber.

I've seen all kinds of bear sign in the woods where I have worked: Scat of all kinds, scratch trees, tracks of numerous different sizes and I've seen one galloping across the street.

They aren't going to bother you. They have better things to be doing other than chasing your rank-smelling behinds around.

Ditto for grizzlies. They'd rather dig a car-sized hole in the ground chasing marmots than messing around with you.

Besides that, No pistol is big enough for a grizzly. Bring enough gun. Think 12GA OO/Buck/OO/Buck....

Quit being paranoid! Guns are cool and great woods tools for ranging game, but seriously, the chances of you getting attacked by a bear or cougar or whatever other than 2-legged animals are about equal to getting struck by lightning or winning the lotto. Seriously, research it if you don't believe me.

The place you really need a gun is in the big cities or wherever you might encounter testy 2-leggers.

Do whatever you want, but I think the concept is ridiculous.

The concept however of a practical woods gun - meaning one you can take game with and still offer some reasonable self defense is a whole different topic.
 
Besides that, No pistol is big enough for a grizzly. Bring enough gun. Think 12GA OO/Buck/OO/Buck....
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Accordingly with the Garrett web site testimonials, their 44 Mag Hammerhead 300 grainers on a frontal grizzly shot engaging the skull, they penetrated up to behind the hips...looks adequate penetration to me....just shy of exiting the bear aXX!!!!....

Now if you are a lousy shot, that is a total different matter....shot placement is king....even if you bring a 458 Mag and shoot all over the place you are still going to be Grizzly food...

Once I talked to an Alaska native that all he carried for grizzly defense was his trusty 30-30 Winchester 94.....it is all about shot placement and adequate bullet...

I know that the chances of meeting a bear in the woods are slim and that one of meeting an attacking bear are ven slimmer but how they say...better safe than sorry...
 
The 40S&W is not suited for a 200gr bullet.

Look at those nicely bulged cases half way down. Look at the cartridge sitting on top of the box on the right. This is where the bullet shank has gotten into the internal case taper. I sure as hell wouldn't fire those. Scary.

972.jpg
 
Funny woodsman, because those that listened to your (no offense...) clueless kind, would actually be alive today if they WERE carrying a gun on them when they DID get attacked and slaughtered by bears in the woods. What do you have to say to them? Huh? They don't matter, since they're in the minority? Ahh! I see how it is! People are just numbers now, huh? Only a small percentage of people get attacked by bears in the woods, right? ONLY! As if those few didn't matter?

If they listened TO US, they'd be alive today! One life alive, is better than ONE life lost, right? How dare you quote statistics, and think we should listen to them?

There're people that'll quote statistics on school shootings, saying how rare they are. But if YOU were in VT while it was getting shot up, and YOU listened to those stupid statistics, thus not carrying a gun on you... then you'd be dead right now. Including those poor girls at an Amish school, who also died from a crazy gunman. I'm sure many'd think a teacher was nuts for bringing a gun to an Amish school "just in case" right? But look at what happened!

That's why, no matter how rare a bad situation might happen, statistics won't mean SQUAT when YOU'RE in that rare situation... now WILL they?

I can't believe how idiotically complacent and ignorant people can be today, when they consider statistics.

When you listen to statistics, you're then much more prone TO BECOMING a statistic, in the end.

I've read statistics showing police officers went through their whole careers without firing their guns; I guess cops should listen to statistics of rarity on shooting guns in self defense, and stop carrying their pistols, huh? :rolleyes: :banghead:

You're exactly what the gun-grabbing liberals love to have around, as well.

Concerning the true context of the 2nd Amendment: Citizens being the WELL-ARMED militia for protection against corrupt government. Shall we throw our guns out, since it's "rare" that our government will turn against us to where we'd have to use guns to fight back against them? It rarely happens, like back in the Revolutionary War... when citizens on the American side had to use their guns to fight off tyranny from Great Britain. It was rare, but being prepared for that rare situation totally changed the whole course of history as we know it. Amazing, huh? Just like carrying a gun in the woods can change the whole course of your LIFE, in case you get attacked by a bear... even though this is "rare" according to your kind. :cuss:

Get it? Good.

Bye!
 
just wanted to say +1 on the S&W 1066 or the 1006 (different barrel lengths same gun) i found one used for $200 it runs like a scalded dog. although the mags and ammo aren't cheap and the winchester and remington stuff is loaded so soft i wonder if its all much more than a .38 spl +p
 
Quit being paranoid! Guns are cool and great woods tools for ranging game, but seriously, the chances of you getting attacked by a bear or cougar or whatever other than 2-legged animals are about equal to getting struck by lightning or winning the lotto. Seriously, research it if you don't believe me.

The place you really need a gun is in the big cities or wherever you might encounter testy 2-leggers.
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I carry a gun. *** do I have to be paranoid about? I can handle most any situation.

The chances are slim that:

I get into a car accident, but I still wear my safety belt ALL THE TIME.

I still carry a flashlight in my truck for the RARE instance I MIGHT have to use it.

I still look both ways for the OFF CHANCE I miss seeing something when entering an intersection.

I still carry insurance for my vehicle IN CASE I get into an accident.

I still lock my doors at night for the RARE change my house might get broken into.

I still carry a jack and spare tire in my vehicles for the RARE chance I have a flat.

I still wear a helmet, protective jacket, gloves, pants while riding my motorcycle in the OFF CHANCE I get into a crash.

See, life is full of surprises. Many of which we can be prepared for but not control fully. My goal in life it to be prepared as above but never have to use the tools or items in question. It's about being prepared. Lift up your skirt, grab your balls and act like a freedom loving American.

I'm embarrassed to be living in the same state as you.
 
CYN: Use DoubleTap 10mm... and then you'll see a HUGE difference... TRUST me on that one. :D

Good post freakshow10mm.

And re-reading my post, I'm a bit :eek: sorry for using some of the words I did; it just ticks me off when people try and talk people into making themselves prone to being attacked by a BG, whether four or two legged... simply because of ol' evil statistics. Few things steam me worse than this. :fire:

Anyway, sorry... I did go a bit far in my post above. :eek:
 
The woodsman, I live in North Georgia and there have been at least a dozen bear attacks here in the last 10 years or so. Two people just to the north of us in Tennessee have been killed in this time by bears. Just last summer a 250 lb bear came into a campground about 50 miles from here and at first tried to drag off a cooler then dropped it and came after a 4 year old boy. His father beat the bear to death with a piece of firewood.

I am quite certain these bears were used to getting food from humans and that is the real problem. While no one was hurt one of my favorite hiking trails was closed for one summer because the bears got so used to stealing food from hikers. One actually grabbed a backpack from a hikers back.
 
DoubleTap 180gr XTP would be good, but I love the 200gr XTP and Cast bullet DoubleTap loads for the .40. 1050 fps isn't full power 10mm territory, but it's good enough to take black bear. 200+ lb deer have fallen to typical .40 cal JHP's designed for personal defense.

I have two 10mm's, but I really feel folks don't give the .40 enough credit.
 
If you don't like Glocks, maybe you should consider the lightweight .44 magnum that S & W makes. Personally I carry a titanium snubbie .38 that weighs 13 ounces. That's for people. There are no brown bears anywhere near me.
 
I don't think a .40 is a good choice even for light wilderness gun. I wouldn't go with the 10mm either.

My thoughts on a wilderness gun, and I know I'm going to get raked over the coals, is use a stainless revolver.

We have all been through the reliability wars, and I carry an autoloader in the urban jungle.

However, any machine, regardless of whether it is a car, bicycle, pistol, or anything else with moving parts, is subject to failure. The more moving parts the more dirt will affect it. Hiking is not something someone does if they want to stay clean.

A wilderness gun is a survival tool. While modern autoloaders are quite dependable there is always a chance of dirt and debris getting into the action and gumming it up. Yes, this can happen with a revolver, but it's a bit less likely.

What are the chances of you getting dirt into your pistol? Well let's look at what you are carrying it for. Remember when I called it a survival tool? That implies that you are going to be under stress when you use it. What happens if you trip over a tree root while backing up from the black bear while you have the pistol in your hand? You will most likely have enough presence of mind not to drop it, but it is going to end up being shoved down into the dirt and leaves. Now what are the chances of getting something caught in the slide? The odds have just gotten worse for you and what you are actively trying to do, which is reduce your risk.

If you haven't drawn the pistol and stumble the holster is more likely to keep debris from getting caught in the cylinder.

I would rather trust my life to the revolver. YMMV

That all being said, if you insist on using a bottom feeder in the woods, get something that uses a lot of plastic or stainless rather than blued steel. Not only is the pistol going to be subject to the elements, but also a lot of salty sweat.

Black bears are about the biggest predator in the eastern woods other than man. I'd want good .357 or .45 LC myself if I had ot shoot one of them.

Also, you might want to consider a holster that puts the gun in plain sight on your chest rather than a standard hip holster. Hip carry holsters are a pain in the backside when pushing through brush, and if you are in such cramped quarters and need the weapon it's easier to draw it from a holster hooked to the chest strap of your backpack than it will be to draw from the hip.

Again this is all personal opinion, you will have to try it out and see what works best for you.
 
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