No 10 mm pistol I like or trust...any decent .40 loads for "light" wildlife defense??

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The Woodsman:

I too spend a lot of time in the back-country in MI. being a flyfishing nut. After running into a pack of wild dogs several years ago that were feeding on a doe, I decided at that point that I would never venture off the beaten path with out a firearm. I got a CCW before the law was changed (had to go before the review board) and started out carrying a glock 23. For the record a 40. will put down a pit bull no problem (I was attacked in the wild a couple of years later). I have since used a .40 and .45 (my new carry caliber of choice) to put a coup de grace on one large doe on a hunting trip and to kill another one at about twenty yards that had been wounded in a swamp.

The North-woods have several different kinds of predators, Coyote and bobcat (I would only worry about the rabid variety), Cougar, Black Bear, packs of Dogs and the two legged variety. all of them present different levels of threat. I'm not really worried about Black Bear but I see at least two a year while fishing and stumbling upon one at midnight while fishing the Hex in a cedar swamp is never a pleasant experience. So no, I'm not paranoid, but I do carry. As far as the original question, the Glock would be a great choice ( I carry a 1911 now), they're reliable, durable, and they hit what their pointed at. A .45, 10mm or 40. would be fine for anything that you would encounter. A 200 lb. black bear is a real big black bear.
 
Sato Ord, if you're willing to use a .357 Magnum on a black bear, then why not want a 10mm? Do you even know the power of good loaded 10mm? According to your statement, it seems you don't. Go to DoubleTap website and check their ballistics from the 200 gr. WFNGC Beartooth round, and 200 gr. FMJ-FP. Both from a 4.6" barrel producing roughly 720 to 750 ft. lbs. energy. With a 6" Glock barrel, you're looking at 860-900 ft. lbs. energy. That's .357 Magnum territory, and in some of the lower loads: .41 Magnum 210 gr. territory, as well.

DoubleTap 10mm rounds: http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/ca...21_25&osCsid=8dbe528c19cc480dbb5ea999e06ddc5d

DoubleTap .357 Magnum rounds: http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php?cPath=27

You're fine with a 10mm against black bear; don't worry. ;)
 
The .357 Mag is the ballistic twin of the 10mm, difference being one's a revolver cartridge and one is a pistol cartridge. The .357 Mag will have better sectional density than the .357 Magnum but the 10mm can handle bullets up to 245gr, where as between 210-215gr, the 357 Mag peters out.
 
My new wildlife defense pistol is a new Beretta Px4 Storm in .40 cal with 17 round clips. To complete the duo, I have a Cx4 Storm carbine which uses the same clips. (That's some major firepower both in lightweight polymer configurations):evil:
 
This probably won't warm you up to them any more, but when firing a Glock from reset it is actually quite short and feels just like a good DA/SA single action to me, feels better than my other pistols anyway. And it is hard to argue with 15+1, plus they are durable enough to fire even the hot 10mms.

A S&W 10mm would probably be most what you are looking for though.
 
I saw no Delta Elite at all for example at the show, and I heard that they can crack the slides too by the way....
Click to expand...

That was only on the initial run of the original Deltas.
I have an IPSC gun with 60-70,000 rounds through it, no cracks.

It's been abused beyond belief, 4 barrels, a compensator for a while, all of it. It's still fine.
 
My friend got one of these a while back. Fun to shoot and weighs very little. Ideal back packing gun IMO.

sw329pd.jpg
 
The 40S&W is not suited for a 200gr bullet.

Look at those nicely bulged cases half way down. Look at the cartridge sitting on top of the box on the right. This is where the bullet shank has gotten into the internal case taper. I sure as hell wouldn't fire those. Scary.
Click to expand...

I agree! I only get 1000 fps with maxed out 200grn blue dot loads from my 3 5/8" 10mm.

Someone is either lying about their velocity claims or selling gross overloads.

200grn XTP's from a 4" barreled .40 at 1050fps whatever :rolleyes:

kinda reminds me of a certain George Straight song
 
Y'all gotta remember to inhale and this is the High ROad and knock
off the personal attacks/criticism - sure way for a mod. to shut
down a thread.

S&W 1911 5" Bbl. Stainless Steel. .45 ACP
I have a second barrel in .400 CorBon. it approaches
10MM Auto in bullet weights up to 165 gr.
I like the 155 gr Hornady JHP XTP at 1,350 FPS
According to a CorBon Rep. it runs at .45 ACP. +P pressures

Another option for the 1911 platform, is .45 Super, runs at
27,000 - it's a cut to ACP length, .45 Win Mag case needs a
heavier recoil spring.

If the O.P. is thinking about carrying his S&W .44 mag.
consider the Lou ALessi Field Master Shoulder holster rig.
It carries the big smiths and 1911 with the muzzle down It's a
one handed draw with a pivot - it also has an optional retaining
strap if you're climbing in rough country. It's heavy leather
basketweave cordovan, and it is wide where it should be, and
narrower in non weight bearing straps - the off side straps are
also leather not elastic to pinch etc. The off side has options for
a mag carrier or speedloaders or a pouch. It's the rig I want to
get for my S&W 625 .45 ACP/.45 AUto RIm that weighs 45 oz. - on
my hip I'd be listing to starboard, matey.

I'm in SE Wash.- in PUllman just North of WSU Campus, you want to
see some grizzlies up close? At the end of Grimes road and airport road
on the very east side of campus there's a sturdy double fence with concertia wire - it's the Griz enclosure. WSU does research on bear disease, etc.

I took my visiting family members out on a hot july day some years back.
We stopped to look at the Grizzlies, 3 or 4 of them. We were looking at them - they were kinda languid in the heat, then one looks at us and gets up. I swear his open mouth was almost like a smile....he walks around to in front of us near a long rectangular water trough I backed up and thought
hmmm, then the bear got up on the edges of the water trough putting a front and back paw on each side My neice said oh, Uncle
he's doing tricks for us Right at the this time he hunkers down,
leaps up about 2 and a half feet draws in his paws and a perfect
cannanball and water exploded over my visitors. THe bear got out of the trough - shook the water off spraying us more and then with his grin
walked back to lay down in the shade.

They do have a sense of humour.

Randall
.
 
It sounds like you are trying to find an auto to invite to what is essentially a wheel gun party, IMHO.
 
My new wildlife defense pistol is a new Beretta Px4 Storm in .40 cal with 17 round clips. To complete the duo, I have a Cx4 Storm carbine which uses the same clips. (That's some major firepower both in lightweight polymer configurations)
Click to expand...
"Clips"?

They're magazines.
 
You can get a S&W 1006 for about $700. They are fantastic guns.

Don't be too sceptical of those Doubletap .40 loads. Doubletap makes fantastic ammo, and I trust their research. That hardcast load I posted looks pretty hot.
 
Why wouldn't a .45 take care of those animals? i would think the .45 would be better then the 40 cal when taking out a bear or a cat, knock em down better. but what do i know....
 
Krochus takes the low road....
Quote:
it approaches
10MM Auto in bullet weights up to 165 gr.

LOL that's like saying a Camry approaches Corvette speeds up to 90mph


No, it makes the .400 COrbon to have to take jealous cheap shot barbs
from the .40 S&W as well as the 10MM AUto crowd

Same source all with Hornady 155 gr. XTP JHPs
10MM AUto 1,400 FPS
.400 CorBon 1,350 FPS at a lot less pressure on the gun.
.40 S&W 1,120 FPS

Reeds Ammunition & Research

Randall
 
A magazine is inserted into the gun, or it is already there.

A clip 0 such as the stripper clip for a M1 Garand is
used to charge the magazine.

It's a bit of a nit but you use the term incorrectly, whereas
the O.P. was a bit imprecise perhaps by simply stating he
wanted a 10MM which is a calilber, not a specific cartridge.
IT could be .40 S&W, .400 CorBon, 10MM Auto, 10MM AUto Mag.
or even the old .40 cal.... .38-40 WCF they all use 10MM bullets.

Randall





R-
 
Same source all with Hornady 155 gr. XTP JHPs
10MM AUto 1,400 FPS
.400 CorBon 1,350 FPS at a lot less pressure on the gun.
Click to expand...

Yes but for 4 legged predators you want deep penetration, and normal bullet weights for 10mm Auto are in the 175-200 grain range, with some much lighter and some a little heavier.

Heavier rounds penetrate more for a given diameter. You would never choose a light fast bullet for woods defense, so comparing the 155 gr. 10mm Auto round to the .400 CorBon is not realistic in that use.

Some of the 10mm Autos have significantly more capacity at about the same size as the .400 CorBon.
The Glock 20 a great woods gun for example has 16 rounds, which is excellent if you are choosing to use such an autoloader anyways.
It is also about the same size as a 1911.

I would like to see some steel framed factory 10mm auto chambered pistols that take a doublestack magazine.
Currently you have to make your own.
 
'
COme on KRotchus


where is an example of a manufactuere of
.40 S&W .400 CorBon and 10MM AUto with
bullet and weight with velocity claim?

How about CorBon?
.400 CorBon 155 gr. DPX 1200 FPS
10 MM AUto 155 gr. DPX 1200 FPS
CorBon doesn't even offer the 155 gr. DPX in the
short limited cpacity .40 S&W they do offer
.40 S&W 140 gr. DPX 1200 FPS

well maybe CorBon wants to sell .400 Corbon

yah wanta back up your cheap shots with facts ?

Or just slink off

More like a COrvette small block vs a corvette big block
but which is more versatile when it comes to cornering,???

I'd say the 1911 .45 ACP & .400 COrBon Barrel swap offers
more - and the .45 ACP - I have a lot of
Leadhead Hardcast 200 gr. SWC & 1,025 FPS I had custom
loaded and chrono'd

Heck the O.P. asked originally for a LIght game pistol load,
but then sez he's worried about Medium game cougars and Black Bears
those aren't light game.

later, done with this silly **** and this thread should be shut down
.
 
I think I have to bite the bullet (no pun intended ) and carry my big 44 in the woods...you never know...
Click to expand...

I'm a dedicated 1911 .45ACP kind of guy. However, after reading about one bear encounter after another, I've decided the .45ACP is probably a 2-legged predator solution.

I got a Super Blackhawk NM in .44 Mag recently, for backcountry protection.

What a difference! No tactical reloads, no double taps. None of that IDPA stuff.

Just a simple, reliable SA pistol in a caliber that is considered minimum for bear.

Maybe it's OK to tailor what you carry for the worst you're likely to encounter. Kind of like taking an appropriate rifle to Africa for dangerous game. Nobody would think of using the same rifle for PD's. :)
 
I'd say the 1911 .45 ACP & .400 COrBon Barrel swap offers
more
Click to expand...

vs the 10mm auto .40S&W barrel swap? Or how about the .357SIG barrel swap? Or the 9x25Dillon barrel swap?
Yep all just require a barrel swap, and sometimes a recoil spring. They all work flawlessly with the same extractor and feed reliably, hardly even conversions. The .357 Sig is just a necked down .40S&W. The 9x25Dillon just a necked down 10mm Auto.
All take the same diameter case, and are all related.

Certainly the 10mm swaps have a lot more versatility, while the firearm itself can have a lot more capacity.

I've decided the .45ACP is probably a 2-legged predator solution
Click to expand...
You bet it is a 2 leg predator solution only. The wide diameter and limited energy of the round mean there is limited penetration in thick muscled animals. It hits like a brick and dumps energy rapidly, but it penetrates through a lot of tissue poorly for the same reason.

Normaly I would say the .44 Magnum is the minimum size for woods defense. However the high capacity of some of the 10mm Autos don't put them far behind. Select fire capability would make them even more effective.

If only that were legal...

Here is what it would look like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX8jt3bp48k (full auto 10mm Glock)
 
yah wanta back up your cheap shots with facts ?
Click to expand...

OK here's a FACT!

Angry wildlife really needs a 180grn or heavier bullet. Where's that ammo for 400 corbon?


165grn for 400 cor-bon self defense ammo
Muzzle Velocity: 1300 fps
Muzzle Energy: 619 ft/lb

180grn 10mm cor bon hunting ammo
Muzzle Velocity: 1300 fps
Muzzle Energy: 676 ft. lbs.

Buffalo Bore 10mm 180grn gold dot
Muzzle Velocity: 1350 fps
Muzzle Energy: 728 ft. lbs.

You do understand the difference in hunting bullets vs self defense bullets don't ya! Hunting bullets in .40 caliber START at 180grns and go up from there. For some strange reason I cannot find hunting ammo for 400 cor-bon.....I wonder why that is. Possibly because they don't make it???? Myself I shoot 200grn XTP's out of my compact 10mm @ just over 1000fps, what kind of speeds do YOU get with this bullet in your 400?:neener:

Here comes the part where you try to convince everyone a 155grn bullet is just fine for hunting, which is essentially what you're doing in an anti critter weapon
 
I understand the 10mm isn't far behind the .44 Mag in ballistics.

I guess I "came late to the party" in terms of backcountry concerns. I started looking at something similar to the 1911, but with more energy, because I was already familiar with the 1911. (laziness...)

I rejected the Desert Eagle, even though it's .44 Mag because it isn't available in stainless, and it's reputation for reliability isn't all it should be.

I initially rejected revolvers, because I can't hit anything with a DA.

So, I kind of fiddled and procrastinated and just gave up and got a simple SA revolver.

I believe I'm agreeing with "why does it have to be a 10mm or .40 semi-auto?"

Maybe an old-fashioned revolver will work fine.
 
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