Interesting test against IIIa soft armor

[stressed]

So I've heard of the oh so mythical penetration abilities of the 7.62x25mm Tokarev. So I put S&B 85gr FMJ in a 9" SMG barrel (PPS43C) for even increased boost in velocity up to test. Average 1800FPS out of the 9" PPS43 barrel.

So if the pistol velocity pierces armor, the SMG velocity should have no effort, right? Wrong.

Failed to penetrate. This is the nut flap for the IBA, current military issue - soft. Obviously stopped 10mm, 9mm, .380, .45, .44 Mag, .357 Mag that I fired at it as well.

Does anyone have any actual steel core AP pre-ban handgun ammo they would like to donate to test? I'm curious if the AP pistol ammo lives up to it's name.

 

[JohnKSa]

Wasn't one of the design criteria for the IIIA vests that it had to stop 7.62x25 Tokarev?

I thought that and the ability to defeat 9mm from a subgun length barrel were two of the main reasons for the IIIA's existence.

 

[stressed]

Alright all, has some very interesting results.. So I have found a 9mm round that will penetrate IIIa, that .357, ,44 Mag and 7.62x25mm Tokarev can't...

Speed is all it takes.

Liberty Defense +P 50gr HP through a Sterling SMG carbine blew right through it and the target behind, over 2500fps on chrono..

Interesting nonetheless.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Liberty Defense +P 50gr HP through a Sterling SMG carbine blew right through it and the target behind, over 2500fps on chrono..

LOL, it isn't really a pistol round at that point anymore, but you are right, velocity (and the ability to stay together) will go right through.

Bullet shape is also a key factor. Years ago I had some compressed copper 9mm frangible ammo (great for short range practice on steel targets) where we reshaped the nose to a point. It would penetrate Level II body armor in the pointy version but would not penetrate IIa in the unmodified version. The compressed copper maintained the point sufficiently to slip between kevlar weave. Never manages to get pointy lead to do that because it would deform on contact, losing its point.

Something to think about with soft body armor is that it tend to effectively "catch" the bullet via the fiber strands/weave. The way that the bullet defeats this armor is by either destroying the fibers (brute force) and/or by slipping between the weave.

In the end, bullet size, shape, weight, velocity, composition, and construction all come into play when factoring in the ability to penetrate soft body armor.

Wasn't one of the design criteria for the IIIA vests that it had to stop 7.62x25 Tokarev?

If it was, it appears to fail at doing on based on various people's testing, such as here...
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?174564-7-62x25-Tokarev-meets-Body-Armor

 

[SIGLBER]

The 7.62x25 got it's reputation for penetrating body armor in the early days of body armor development. Way back in the time of the publishing of the "Shooting to Live" book the 7.62x25 was feared because of it's ability to shoot through the body armor of the time. And although not a large frontal area the wounds due to the high velocity tended to leave a bruised, nasty wound track in the flesh.
The round stayed popular among the Chinese criminals of the time because of it's ability to penetrate the then in use body armor. Was quite popular with the German troop on the Eastern Front to get one of the Russian "burp guns' when they could because of it's 71 round drum magazine, rapid rate of fire, and penetration qualities. The 7.62x25 definately has it's place as a classic cartridge in the history books.