Interesting thing this morning.

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Sato Ord

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
657
Location
Melbourne Florida
My back and head injuries have started to really catch up on me so the VA doc wrote a letter stating that in his professional opinion I should have a large service dog to help me maintain my balance. To make a long story short I couldn't see waiting out the eight to seventeen year waiting list for someone else to train a dog for me, so I trained my own Great Dane, Indie, to do the job. Since I've been training dogs for around thirty years it just made sense to do it myself.

She's been wonderful, and has really taken to doing her work. You can call it anthropomorphizing if you like, but she appears to take great pride in doing her job well.

It is much easier to get a dog registered as a service dog than I expected.

This morning I took a large load of laundry to the laundry room and got my wife's help. We left the dog in the condo. Indie opened the sliding glass, back door and went looking for me. The neighbors told me she first went to the pool, then, ignoring them, (they were trying to call her to keep her from getting out into the parking lot), she went to my car, and when she couldn't find me in either place she went to the front door of the condo and waited for me to find her. She was an all business, no nonsense working dog the whole time.

Now what does all of this have to do with guns. Well, just to tie it all in, when I am carrying she is such an attention getter no one notices the bulge under my shirt, and if they do see it printing slightly in the back they assume, since I have a dog with an orange vest, that it's a brace or other medical appliance.

Also, a six foot, three inch tall man walking a one hundred pound dog is visually intimidating and keeps the local neighborhoodlums at bay. Using a cane or other support would be like wearing a t-shirt that says, "I'm a helpless victim, please mug me." Besides, canes and walkers are out because I tend to fall backwards when my balance fails, and the dog just seems to know it's about to happen and braces me up.
 
I admire you being able to train the dog yourself. Congrats.

As for the gun under the shirt, you know, people don't *look*. They really don't. Unless there is something else about you (apart from the dog) that would call their attention (like piercings down the length of your nose or some such) people hardly even look at one another.

Springmom
 
now get a holster for under her vest, so she can carry for you!
Click to expand...

Excellent idea!! You can keep a BUG there. I wonder if there are any laws about using your service dog to CCW for you? I'm sure the liability would be enormous, though.
 
What a great dog! And what this also means for you is that you can now up-size your CCW! Superlative!

How hard was it to train her to be a service dog?
 
How does the dog help you maintain your balance Sato Ord? Is the dog actually strong enough to support your weight when you press down on his shoulder? I ask because I may need similar help myself someday.

I was hit by a buss while bicycling a few years ago, and it took me quite a while to get rid of my walking cane. Now at age 46 I'm getting around OK but my dance moves have suffered, and my neurologist tells me I may have more problems as I age.

I always figured if it came down to me needing a cane or crutches I could carry some kind of hidden sword/rifle/shot gun/stun gun/weaponized hallucinogen dispenser. But this has me wondering if I wouldn't be better off concealing my arsenal somewhere in the dog's harness.
 
Originally posted by Springmom:

As for the gun under the shirt, you know, people don't *look*. They really don't. Unless there is something else about you (apart from the dog) that would call their attention (like piercings down the length of your nose or some such) people hardly even look at one another.
Click to expand...

That's the biggest thing I noticed about carrying. At first you're concerned about people noticing your gun. Then you realize that nobody's looking. Folks don't go out looking to see who is packing. More so, even if they notice a bulge, we live in an era where there's all kinds of things that can be carried on a person. About the only people thinking about others carrying guns are police, criminals, and other CCWers.
 
That is really a very important service feature. I'm impressed at your skill in traing the dog. Would a GSD be equally effective? Was your GD previously trained?
 
As for the gun under the shirt, you know, people don't *look*. They really don't.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I have OC'd a full size 1911 around here in ultra-liberal Eugene in Wal-mart, Home Depot, the library right by the police station downtown, waiting in line at the store, etc, and have seen no indication that anyone even really noticed.People just really dont pay attention, and I think the few that do see a gun, just assume you must be an off duty cop or a detective or something, and there has never been a peep, and I have never seen another person OC here.

honestly, even since the 1st couple times I OC'd and got no attention and nothing happened, I never even consider anyone noticing when I conceal. If nothing else, it made me WAY more comfortable with the fact that that even when I CCW fairly sloppily, there is no giant neon sign over my head that says "GUN!" :D. Even with only minor effort to conceal, I jsut dont really think people are observant enough to even THINK you have a gun, let alone actually notice it.

Now, if you dressed like some kind thug or something, they might notice as they would be more wary from the start, but if you just look like an "average" guy, and seem calm and comfortable, they pay no attention, or just assume that what you are doing must be ok, or you wouldnt be doing it.:D

People are funny.
 
Sorry this is kind of long, so if you aren't interested in this service dog thread you might want to skip it.

To answer a couple of points that have been brought up.

As far as printing goes, you're right, it's only the police, criminals, and other people carrying who might notice, but in Florida it's a ticketable offense if an officer can see a noticeable print. Unlawful display is what they call it. Most cops are pretty lax about it, but there are some officers out there who are just as anti as the worst Brady Bunchers you've ever met.

I also bought a nice leather belt pouch with a built in holster. It isn't ideal, but a lot of people in Florida carry them because they wear such light clothing in the summer down here. I don't like having to unzip my holster before I can draw, but I've practiced and it now only takes me an extra half second or so to be combat ready. Remember kids, nothing beats actual practice time, whether you're shooting, or just drawing the weapon.

As for how long it took to train my dog as s service animal; quite some time. Of course it took me nearly a year to get her properly socialized because she had been taken away from a couple who were abusive. After that it only took a couple of months to get the basics of her duties down.

Great Danes lean into people naturally, and I simply worked with that instinct. I used it to train her to slightly wrap her body around my knees and help keep me stable by leaning on me while I lean on her. The next thing was to teach her to come over and brace as I use her to get up off the floor in case I should fall down and need such assistance. After that I began teaching her to brace if I pull on a short strap attached to her harness. Since I tend to fall backwards when I lose my balance all I have to do is use the strap to catch myself as she braces against the pull. She easily picked up on the difference between pulling on the harness for support and pulling on her leash to get her to move.

As far as her somehow knowing when I'm about to lose my balance; I have no idea how she does it. She just seems to know a second or so before it happens and steps in to catch me. She picked that up by herself: the talent amazes me as much as it amazes everyone else.

One more thing I've taught her is for when I'm fairly well braced, like at a teller machine. I can lean against the machine for support if needed, so I have taught her the command "Cover Me". When I say "cover me" she stands behind me, watches, and lets me know if anyone approaches while I am otherwise occupied.

As for her strength, she's fine and it doesn't seem to put too much on her. I don't lean on her anymore than necessary, and I never make her stand in one spot for more than about five minutes at a time. Dogs can walk for hours, but just standing in one spot puts a lot of stress on the joints of their feet and ankles, so I give her a break of twenty to thirty seconds if I have to stand in one spot for any length of time. She knows how long she is expected to stand and if she gets fatigued she will nudge me to get my attention and then lay down on the spot. She picked up on that herself and we just sort of worked out the signal naturally.

However, that all being said, she is also the bare minimum size recommended for someone of my height and weight. I'm six-three and weigh two-sixty. Preferred size for a balance dog for me is one-twenty-five to one-fifty. Indie was not only abused as a puppy, but she was starved as well, so she didn't quite reach the height and weight of an average Dane.

Spyvie, I highly recommend that you look at getting a dog. Talk to your doc and get him/her to write a letter. There are organizations that can assist you in finding a dog that will fit your needs. However, expect a long wait. I have a friend who works with a big national disabled veterans organization and their waiting list for a dog like mine is eight to seventeen years. That's why I went through the whole thing of training my own and than getting her certified myself.

I will tell you though, I had started curtailing my activities without even realizing I was doing it because of my balance problems. I was becoming nearly housebound without noticing it. My wife noticed that the only time I seemed willing to leave the house was when I took the dog for a walk, and she is the one who suggested that we train Indie as a service animal. She is also the one who did all of the on line research about getting the dog certified.

Lastly, the only times anyone has given me any kind of hassle about the dog were at Home Depot, and the VA. The guards are the VA were under the mistaken impression that I had to carry some kind of paperwork that proved the dog was a service animal, and my doctor set them straight. The woman who tried to keep me out of Home Depot was, unfortunately, terrified of large dogs, and her manager set her straight jiffy quick. In fact, the manager of the store was more flustered by the clerk's attitude than was. Apparently Home Depot is more terrified of things like law suits.

I do, of course, try to take other people's feelings into account. If I notice that someone is afraid of the dog, even though she is a gentle giant, I do everything I can to keep her from upsetting them. I can wait outside Starbucks while someone who is either afraid, or allergic, gets his/her coffee. I'm not on a tight work schedule and they probably are. I see having a service dog much the same as I see carrying a concealed weapon. I'm the ambassador that everyone sees whether I'm a nice guy or a jerk, so I really take great pains not to be a jerk.

The last time someone at Starbucks was afraid of the dog I apologized and got out of line and waited outside for the woman to get her coffee even though I was there first. When I went in to get my regular order I found that the woman was so pleased by my gesture that she had already paid for my coffee.
 
My daughter trains service dogs, but there is really no viable market for them unless some individual or organization is willing to sponsor a dog for someone.

She has shifted more into SAR dogs and is working on becoming a K-9 officer.
 
Several months ago my wife and I were at the local mall and there was a woman training a GD to be a seeing eye dog.
I'd love to see the look on some people's faces on that one.
 
Great story!

Some dogs are smarter than most people.

Dog Moll? Gussie her up in a fancy hat and tight dress, and nobody will notice the gun.

And dogs don't sweat, so you don't have to worry about your BUG getting all rusty.
 
My daughter trains service dogs, but there is really no viable market for them unless some individual or organization is willing to sponsor a dog for someone.
Click to expand...

TallPine, you hit the nail on the head. When they put a value on a service dog, usually 12-15k it's because of the training involved. It's not too expensive when you factor in that a good trainer can possibly train 2-3 dogs a year. That would put the trainer making a max of about 30k a year for training if they were in it for the money. Not such good pay when you remember that it takes hours and hours of work every week with each dog. That would probably work out to about 80+ hours a week with, if you're really lucky, and one week vacation a year, and the only benefits are getting to feel good about doing something to help someone else. Great feel good job, but not much on retirement or medical coverage.

That's why most service dogs start in normal homes with average sponsors who pretty much just teach them basic obedience and to ignore distractions. After months, sometimes as much as a year and half, with the foster family they then have to go on to advanced training to learn their actual jobs.

There is a shortage of trainers, but there is an even bigger shortage of fosters who are willing to take a dog in for that long and then give the dog up. It's a lot of work on everyone's part, which explains the long waiting lists for service dogs.

I am truly blessed that I not only can train my own, but that my family is so supportive of me doing so.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

N
  • Locked
Nighttime incident, Mossberg 500 made it more comfortable
2 3
Replies
58
Views
4K
Balog
B
S
  • Locked
Was my advice good? Woman vs 6 Pitbulls
2 3
Replies
62
Views
5K
jerkface11
J
I
  • Locked
Red Alert Last Night
2
Replies
46
Views
3K
campbellcj
C
H
  • Locked
If someone shot your dog
2 3 4
Replies
79
Views
4K
hso
hso
M
  • Locked
5 dogs severely maul deputy; 3 Dogs shot in incident
2 3
Replies
56
Views
2K
Paniolo808
P
Back
Top