Interviewed at the ATM

[curtste]

Good evening,

I've lurked here for a long time, only registering recently, and now I have something to share.

I think I was interviewed at an ATM tonight. I stopped to grab a bit of cash on the way to the batting cages with my daughter. I had to exit the vehicle to go to the ATM. So, she stayed in the minivan. I took the keys with me and locked the doors like I always do. I also have to admit I was fairly oblivious to my surroundings, and not as alert as a guy should be when making a trip to the ATM. I was about 10 yards from my locked vehicle and my daughter.

As I was waiting for the transaction to complete two guys walked around the corner to my left. This ATM is on the end building of a small strip mall. As they passed behind me I glanced back and saw them both looking me over. This is when I first felt like something wasn't quite right.

As I waited for the transaction to process they walked past then stopped. They paused for a moment and turned around, spread and came strolling back in my direction. One had his eyes locked on me, the other had his head on a swivel. They spread out a bit. This is when I really thought something wasn't quite right.

I didn't say a word, but locked eyes with the one that was coming directly toward me, stepped forward with my left foot and brushed my coat back, putting my hand on my hip. I carry IWB at 4 O'clock normally. Neither of them could have seen my piece. But, I guess I made my point. Both of them stopped dead in their tracks. They looked at each other, quickly back at me, then did an about face and walked away.

I grabbed my card and cash from the ATM, hopped in the minivan and split. My daughter was oblivious to the whole thing. So, we went to the batting cage and hit some softballs, father and daughter, happy ending.

As we hit balls, a couple of things kept running through my head.

1. I was trying to decide if it really was about to get ugly, or if it was just an overactive imagination paired with a bit of paranoia.
2. The overwhelming thought that my little P238 never felt as little as it did the moment I realized what was going on.

I may have to rethink my EDC as well as my choice of ATMs.

 

[Dr_B]

Assuming it all happened like you described it, I'd say it was about to get ugly. I'd also say watch their hands rather than their eyes. I can't say I would do any better than you, but hands kill.

 

[jrw69]

I think you did a good job, and second what Dr.B says, locking eyes will get you killed since you are not aware of the other guy or your surroundings. Your head should have been on the "swivel". 99% of the time I use an ATM in a store, 1% drive up ones, and ZERO outside walk up. If you felt inadequate with your weapon, then you either need more practice or a different pistol and more practice. Be confident that if you would have pulled he would have gone down.

 

[FMF Doc]

Rule 1: Have a gun. Pass!
Everything else is a matter of opinion. Just as satistics support, the simple matter of having a gun can often end a fight before it starts.

Now, I TOTALLY agree that if and when you ever need your gun, you get a much bigger warm and fuzzy from, lets say a Glock 19, than you do from an LCP. Thankfully, most of us never do end up needing that gun. Glad to see that you came out on top. God Speed.

 

[curtste]

Thanks. Yes, I do think I got a bit of tunnel vision. And yes, I can always use more practice, that's a fact. Happy it worked out the way it did.

 

[btg3]

Now, I TOTALLY agree that if and when you ever need your gun, you get a much bigger warm and fuzzy from, lets say a Glock 19, than you do from an LCP.

and... "brushed my coat back, putting my hand on my hip" communicates somewhat better than: "shoved my hand into my pocket and was ready to draw".

 

[Mikhail Weiss]

Based upon your description, looks to me like you read the predatory behavior correctly, so don't waste a second worrying about being imaginative or paranoid. You get to be right about such things, and without apology.

 

[trex1310]

From the way you described the situation it sounds like you did a
good job. There is no such thing as imaginative or paranoid when
your life might be on the line. The comment about the hands is
very valid. Sometimes these thugs are like pack animals. They
work in fours. Two to get your attention and two to strike
from the blindside. I definitely hope that you will consider going to
a larger weapon with more firepower than a P238. It's a scary
world out there these days.

 

[allaroundhunter]

I think that overall you did well, the tunnel vision has some room for improvement obviously, but I can't say that I would have done any better.

The P238, while a good gun, could serve as a back up to something larger, especially if you are wearing a coat. A coat gives you the potential to conceal a full size handgun quite easily, even OWB. I carry a FS M&P and I love getting to wear a jacket with it because it makes things much more easy and comfortable.


But, I am glad that both you and your daughter are okay and were able to walk away without any damage being done to anyone. As has been said, you had a gun on you and that was what gave you the upper hand; even though you are rethinking the P238, imagine how much more helpless you would have felt if you didn't even have that......

 

[vtuck2]

That was a very upbeat ending to a downbeat story. I only wish I could see a sketch of the scene of the crime-that-wasn't-but-might-have-been including where your minivan was parked. It would help me - and possibly you - understand what you did right and what you might have done differently - if anything. In particular, I would be concerned about them having approached you from the direction of your vehicle. That might have put you in a really tough spot.

And as another contributor pointed out it's crucial to avoid being approached from behind by one or more additional perps while the two you see have you spell-bound. The snake I haven't yet seen scares me far more than the one I'm watching.

I can't think of a scarier scenario than yours since you had your child with you. I greatly admire how you handled things notwithstanding that I would especially appreciate the opportunity to wring out every drop of learning from the scenario that unfolded.

In particular, it would be very wise to think about this: At what point would a shooting have been "reasonable". The two guys might have claimed they were simply waiting to use the ATM.

We have farmhouse that is not 75 feet away from a very busy Texas highway. I deal with scary people fairly regularly - sometimes in the dead of night. However, by withdrawing into my dwelling it becomes very easy where to draw the line: at the THRESHOLD OF A DOOR OR WINDOW! In public it's a much harder and murkier decision to make. However, you certainly had the facts on your side to make a jury (or grand jury) sympathetic. By things working out as they did you saved yourself a ton of grief (i.e. having to go through an investigation after shooting one or both would have been the only other positive outcome. The other side of that coin is too horrible to contemplate.

On the other hand, those guys are still out there. I suggest there would be no harm in filing an incident report.

Best to you and yours.

Vernon

 

[1stmarine]

I would have called 911 and describe the individuals to them.
There is no doubt they were going to jump you and you know that.

 

[twofifty]

Those thieves probably think of ATMs as fishermen do of rich tuna fishing grounds.

You left your daughter in the locked minivan.
They could have improvised a plan that involved smashing a van window and holding her while you made a substantial ATM withdrawal.
It would have ended 'well' only if they'd then just split with your money.

edit: Welcome to the board and thanks for sharing your story.

 

[sidheshooter]

Based on the description, I think you read the situation well. As mentioned, the little SIG was there, so total pass there. This sort of hair-on-the-back-of-the-neck "what just happened" thing is exactly why I got rid of my P238 (cool little piece though it may be) and went to an SP-101 Ruger. It only takes one "what if" to wean one off of micro guns.

Thanks for posting.

 

[NWGlocker]

Good lessons posted here. To the OP, thanks for sharing. It seemed you already got past the interview and in their eyes you "passed". As you mentioned, they were positioning for an attack.

Glad you made it out of there.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I have a similar situation somewhere in these pages. And my ATM visits are almost always walk-up. It is on a busy strip though, and quite visible. My incident happened at night when not quite so busy. It does make you think, but mine ended much the same as yours. While visiting my new home up north, I like to use the ATM at the Wal-mart. Always dozens of people around.

 

[JohnKSa]

I've just about stopped using ATMs.

 

[1stmarine]

ATM inside the banks are ok. In the street most they are not.

Also my card was cloned in one of those off the network that you find in bars, grocery shops, etc... this one was inside Newark Intl. airport in NJ. I know because it is the only one I used the card outside the bank office at work.

They thieves bought a few items just below 1G but eventually the company called and they locked the car. the bank reimbursed all the money but I had to file a police report. The detective in NJ was nice but the LEOs in the airport did nothing. All very sad. Inside the security area. This has to be an organized thing.

 

[Alaska444]

I had a similar situation long before I began to carry while on active duty in CA. I went to an ATM off base in town. As I was getting money from the ATM with my wife on the other side of the building in our car, just the way the ATM was, one man approached from the right and then a second from the left. Fortunately they asked for a handout instead of just taking.

I ended up giving them $20.00 and being glad that they weren't greedy that day. I heard that these two same men were killed in a shootout with the cops a couple of days later at a convenience store a couple of blocks away.

I learned my less on that day on ATM's for sure and felt very lucky to not have been attacked, but they had the advantage on me for sure. Quite a scary situation and in the location I was at and how they had me flanked in close quarters, I doubt I could have drawn a weapon even if I was armed that day. One approached and drew my attention, while the other came around the corner of the building about 10 feet away. Not much of an opportunity to even run if I had to. Very scary situation.

 

[ChCx2744]

This is why I always use drive-thru ATMs. I am pretty sure they were about to do something. Your gesture was a good move, as it probably let them know you were armed. I would have done something similar. This is why it's best to just keep a reasonable amount of cash or credit card on your person to avoid or lessen your need to take the trip to the ATM. Utilize drive-thru ATMs if you can.

 

[heeler]

Well these guys certainly had something on their minds besides playing head games with you.
One thing I will say is you will more likely carry that 238 more consistently than some other heavy piece.
And true a .45 ACP or a .357 magnum has more horsepower but that carry pistol you had would have given a decent account of itself if pushed came to shove.

 

[jackpinesavages]

Congrats for sharing; this is a learning experience, or as we Instructors say a teaching moment.

You and your daughter survived: excellent work.

You're sharing the scenario: at the risk of criticism you are willing to teach others-get into teaching?

The money: how important is the money? Once noticing that I am outnumbered, tactics have to change immediately, switch gears, and go to plans B through Z. In this example there's no shame in walking past the ATM into a more populated area, do a 180 and follow the perps, telegraph the firearm even more strongly, etc.. Your call.

Your firearm: Congratulations on wearing it. In the crunch time it did not feel adequate to you. Only you can answer the why questions, on that factor, I'm not gonna pretend to know your basic logistics.

Success: you made it home to your family.

 

[ultradoc]

Glad things turned out ok. I think you did the right thing.

 

[AOK]

Sounds like there were several cues there as you explained that you were a potential target. Sudden change of direction, flanking, and darting eyes would be enough for me to tell them to back off with appropriate body language, move and (possibly) get my hand on the gun. I'm glad all ended well for you guys!

I prefer drive thru ATM's as well as others have stated. However, many people get a false sense of security when in their vehicles and get fixated on the task at hand of getting their money out. I try to look up after every time I follow a step. In addition, I keep my vehicle in gear (just drive off if I need to) and my seat belt is unbuckled (easier to access my sidearm). When I'm done I pull away immediately. My money and card isn't going anywhere and it can be situated in my wallet later.

 

[Loosedhorse]

This is the quintessential armed SD story. You're safe because you had a gun, the attackers knew you had a gun, and the gun was never presented.

Now, what can you do to keep this from happening again? Did you not take enough time to scope out the ATM before you got out of your car? Should your daughter--how old?-- have been paying attention, beeped the horn, flashed the lights, started the engine, and started to call 911 when she saw them doing the predatory circle around you? Should you have verbally challenged them early on?

I don't know the answer to these. But I think those answers are frankly much more important than switching to a 1911 (good gun to swich to, BTW, since you like the 238).

Near misses are a warning that you need to do some learning, fast. Take the warning. Find a good teacher, and be a good teacher to those in your family.

 

[Mainsail]

It sounds like you passed the interview with flying colors, and well into the Positioning stage when you stopped it. Read The Five Stages of Violent Crime.

The only thing I would suggest is that you should have called the police. You felt strongly enough to prepare to draw, there's no harm in getting a police officer's opinion. They would have likely taken a report and a description of the robbers would have been circulated. The next time they will not give as much warning. Like all predators, they learn and adjust.