I think at some point you just use a 357 with a light load. Guns only capable of shooting 38, other than pocket guns, are not very common anymore, and the little ones are beasts with hot ammo.Does anybody have/use +p+ .38 special anymore?
I still have a box of I think Remington ammo so marked.
I have not seen any so marked in many many years. There is ammo on the market that claims to be within SAAMI limits I have my doubts about though.Does anybody have/use +p+ .38 special anymore?
I still have a box of I think Remington ammo so marked.
Well, since the .38 Sp. is not as hot as it used to be, could anybody recommend an exception in OTC ammo ?
Please be as specific as possible .
I bought Remington +p lead hollow point 158 gr.Well, since the .38 Sp. is not as hot as it used to be, could anybody recommend an exception in OTC ammo ?
Please be as specific as possible .
I have posted this great info from the late RCModel before but do not mind posting it again:What pressure were the old 38s loaded to? I think current +P pressure is 20k psi. Or was pressure not really measured back then as it is today?
The SAAMI .38 Spl +P rating system came about in 1974.
At that time standard pressure was lowered, and +P was increased very slightly over what used to be standard pressure, and Hi-Speed ammo was dropped from production.
As of 1975, .38 Spl standard pressure was 18,900 CUP, +P was 22,400 CUP.
As of 1998 it was 17,000 PSI and 20,000 PSI.
As of today it is 17,000 PSI & 18,500 PSI.
Prior to 1974:
The Standard pressure 158 LRN grain factory load was rated at 855 FPS.
The Hi-Speed load was rated at 1,090 FPS.
Under todays SAAMI standard, the same 158 grain load is rated at 755 FPS.
The +P is rated at 890 FPS.
As you can see, +P is no more likely to damage a modern gun then standard ammo was likely to damage it in 1970, or 1950, or 1930.
And it is way less likely to damage it then those old .38 Spl Hi-Speed loads that were much closer to todays .357 Mag then todays .38 Spl, either standard, or +P.
rc
The basic question still remains :
Is the .38 S&W Special sufficient for self defense ?
Your choice of load, bullet variant, etc.
Personally, I believe the .38 Special is not dead, but deadly !
What do you REALLY think the .38 Special is capable of, in self defense .
Now is the time to tell the truth, and share some wisdom .
OK ?
even a 22lr can be used for SD if the need arises.
it is a matter of shot placement and penetration period and luck
heck one guy in NYC was shot by the police with 9mm autos. he was wearing a carhartt coat and the bullets did nothing to him
I would want to take energy transfer into account...bigger and faster is better.
The basic question still remains :
Is the .38 S&W Special sufficient for self defense ?
Your choice of load, bullet variant, etc.
Personally, I believe the .38 Special is not dead, but deadly !
What do you REALLY think the .38 Special is capable of, in self defense .
Now is the time to tell the truth, and share some wisdom .
OK ?
even a 22lr can be used for SD if the need arises.
it is a matter of shot placement and penetration period and luck
heck one guy in NYC was shot by the police with 9mm autos. he was wearing a carhartt coat and the bullets did nothing to him
Nah! You are ignoring considerations used in hunting with hand guns, and why there is some risk in selecting too small and tame a gun/ammo choice for self defense. E=MV².Bigger bullets don't necessarily make bigger holes, and velocity doesn't become meaningful until you hit about 2000 fps where hydraulic tearing of tissue takes place, so it's kind of a moot point in pistol calibers where you're looking at roughly 1k fps, give or take 200. The only real reason a .22lr can't be used for self defense, or at least shouldn't be, is that it lacks penetration, especially out of short barrels, and tends to be easily knocked off course by bone and whatnot.
Nah! You are ignoring considerations used in hunting with hand guns, and why there is some risk in selecting too small and tame a gun/ammo choice for self defense. E=MV².
That seems to say that a bullet's destruction of a target occurs after the energy is expended. That doesn't sound right. There is lot going on after a "stretch cavity" and it seems like it would take energy to do it.It's actually E=1/2MV^2, and that little 2 above the V is what pays the bills. And even then, kinetic energy alone doesn't even begin to tell the whole story. Most of a handgun round's energy is expended in the temporary stretch cavity, with very little going into actual tissue damage.
That seems to say that a bullet's destruction of a target occurs after the energy is expended. That doesn't sound right. There is lot going on after a "stretch cavity" and it seems like it would take energy to do it.
If I was going to hunt squirrels, I would rather use a high velocity 22 than a 357 magnum. Should be more meat left and where I can still find it.I don't understand what you mean. Are you talking about the rebound? Basically what I'm saying is that the tissue just absorbs the energy and moves out of the way, like the wake behind a boat, leaving a very small hole. There's very little cavitation like you see with rifle calibers at close range, which are doing about three times the velocity. All you can really accomplish with pistol cartridges is to poke small holes in someone, so they all do about the same thing, providing they penetrate deep and straight enough to get through the vitals.
I refuse to shoot that puny cartridge in my 460XVR!"No one with any intelligence uses a .38 Special any more!" Or at least that was what I was told some years ago. The "intelligent" choice? The .454 Casull.
Jim
This ^ ExactlyGrant Cunningham says contemporary .38 Special HPs are greatly improved over those from a decade ago. If he says they're good then they're good for me!